Thoughts on Tribute feed?

[IPEsq]

I would add Cu/Zn for the skin issues. Resolve is a no added iron feed so that’s helpful.

I have been feeding Tribute’s Wholesome Blends line to my horses because one of them cannot have soy. They are doing great on it. I don’t see a particular reason why Resolve wouldn’t be working for your horse, but if adding alfalfa and extra fat isn’t working, maybe it’s worth a trial of another feed—maybe look at the ingredients compared to your previous feed. For example, there is so much soy in Resolve (in multiple forms on the ingredients) it would send my soy allergic IR horse into a metabolic disaster. It is possible though that even with good bloodwork you are just seeing the side effects of the Thyroid meds and overall challenge of his other health conditions in the new environment.

[pony_baloney]

Re: Rain rot. When they have Cushings, even when controlled, lots of things pop up. Rain rot, scratches, ligament issues, dental problems, abcesses… it all seems to go out of whack. Maybe throw on a lightweight waterproof sheet if the weather gets rainy, but be sure he’s not damp or sweaty on a warmer day.

My late horse with Cushings maintained his weight on Prascend plus Tribute Kalm N Ez (lower NSC) and soaked timothy pellets when he couldn’t chew hay properly due to missing teeth. I also had him on SmartPak’s Pituitary supplement to give his immune system a boost; I think it also included amino acids to help with his topline.

[usernameTaken]

@usernameTaken

FWIW I later found out Tribute has equine nutritionists on staff and can answer questions for free. I have reached out to them before when I wanted to check about mini portions. Might not hurt to call/email them.

Hi again, just wanted to clarify - I didn’t mean to call their nutritionist to ask how much to feed, I meant call them with your situation specifics and ask what they think, maybe ask about the various feeds etc. as an information gathering tool along with the rest of the information you receive. You are feeding their grain currently and it’s a free service. Yes, they work for Tribute so the ‘fwiw’ was kind of my way of saying ‘take that they work for tribute into consideration’ but maybe you will find some of their information helpful. Sorry for not being clear. Again, wishing you good luck.

[JB]

@IPEsq

Resolve is a no added iron feed so that’s helpful.

Most, if not all of Tribute’s feeds by now, have no added iron, that’s something they worked on changing fairly recently.

That said, KNE for example is 125ppm Fe. Triple Crown Sr is 175ppm but the majority of that is intrinsic, just like all the Fe in the KNE, so the difference is likely insignificant

[IPEsq]

Resolve is 150. I guess I noticed that I didn’t have to supplement my red horse nearly as much in the spring since switching from TC balancer Gold to Wholesome blends balancer (He would get a lot of white spots, especially on his face versus this year we have 3 new white spots only, and on the body). But that was a change from 500ppm to 275ppm.

[Critter]

Mine love the Tribute Wholesome Blends Ration Balancer…and given we just found some allergies with my mare, I can keep her on the feed since it doesn’t contain allergens for her. I like it better than the TC Senior and way better than the TC balancer (which mine didn’t like at all).

I also get it from Chewy which is easy…just put it on autoship. The bags that have come in have been nice and fresh.

[SmlHpy1]

You lost me… What are the white spots indicative of? What are you supplementing?

[IPEsq]

Copper and zinc. It’s a form of vitiligo that seems to happen when he changes to his summer coat especially when Copper, zinc and iron are out of balance.

[TWH_Girl]

I thought he’d been only been tested a month ago for the Cushings. Hard to keep it all straight

[SmlHpy1]

No. I’m sorry the cushings is confusing everyone one. I just wanted to state that his levels were within range because I knew that people would say to check. I did updated bloodwork last month. CBC, Chem and Metabolic panel.

[GoodTimes]

How often do you go to the barn? If you’re out 4+ times per week would you be able to feed an extra meal while you’re there? Whether that’s an extra couple lbs of the Resolve or a few lbs of soaked beet pulp.

[SmlHpy1]

I considered that. I’m actually there daily because I bring hay every day and because I have trust issues apparently. lol. But I’m there at dinner time M-F. So I don’t really feel comfortable providing more grain at that time. Sat/Sun are the only days I’m there between meals.

[GoodTimes]

Ah darn, ya I wouldn’t add more bulk to the meals that he’s already getting. An extra meal Saturday and Sunday may not noticeably help, but shouldn’t hurt either.

[SmlHpy1]

@pony_baloney

Re: Rain rot. When they have Cushings, even when controlled, lots of things pop up. Rain rot, scratches, ligament issues, dental problems, abcesses… it all seems to go out of whack. Maybe throw on a lightweight waterproof sheet if the weather gets rainy, but be sure he’s not damp or sweaty on a warmer day.

My late horse with Cushings maintained his weight on Prascend plus Tribute Kalm N Ez (lower NSC) and soaked timothy pellets when he couldn’t chew hay properly due to missing teeth. I also had him on SmartPak’s Pituitary supplement to give his immune system a boost; I think it also included amino acids to help with his topline.

Thanks! I definitely know that Cushings can impact a lot. I had hoped with it being under control that we would no longer have issues. Ironically I seem to get rain rot at the end of summer as we transition into fall, even when it’s dry. It popped up in August this year. And it’s way way way too hot here for any kind of sheet at that time. Even fly sheets are questionable.

The Supersport has the amino acids, so I’m hoping I can get some topline back. I still ride him (well I was before the last couple months when he really dropped weight) but I’d like better body condition to feel comfortable riding now. I need to research immune supplements. I try hard not to throw a ton of supplements at him and he’s on a few things currently. Thanks for your advice.

[kaya842]

Do you have photos of him? Also, since I don’t see it mentioned, how are his teeth?

Sounds like you have 2 (likely related) issues - the rain rot and the weight.

I agree that copper and zinc will likely help the rain rot. I would add an Omega 3 source (my choice is Contribute which is fish oil made by KPP) and potentially some Vit E as well, especially if he mostly eats hay (could be why he gets the rain rot in the winter but not so much in the summer).

I’ve never had success with fat supplements. If he’s not gaining any from it, I’d drop it and put that money towards something else.

Supersport is pretty pricey as an amino acid supplement. Tri Amino and Nutramino are more bang for your buck. Although, you may want to look into something like KIS Trace Low Selenium which has the amino acids, copper + zinc, and vit E covering more bases with one product. AZ Copper Complete and Lone Star Trace from HorseTech are also both good options (you will want to ask for no selenium if adding to a complete feed like Resolve to avoid overdose) with a flaxseed base so could cover the omega 3 as well.

Will your barn offer you a small discount if you provide all his grain? I’ve had barns do that in the past. Will they order in other Tribute products? It may be worthwhile trying a soy free option and see what that does. The KNEZ comes in a soy free option and the Wholesome Senior is soy free. My horse previously did well on the KNEZ but I ultimately took her off of it due to the soy (back then they didn’t have the soy free version).

IIWM, I’d cut the Thyro-L and ultimate finish, get him free choice alfalfa in his stall (could be soak pellets or cubes but ideally hay), switch the supersport to the KIS Low Selenium, add the Contribute and give all that 45 days or so. If he’s not progressing, I’d try the soy free grain probably starting with the Wholesome Blend Senior. My personal feed of choice is Coolstance Copra but it’s not super palatable so I mix it with the Tribute Senior, and I get that’s a PITA not everyone wants to deal with.

[fordtraktor]

I would definitely not cut Thyro L if he is in a healthy range now. I have a thyroid disorder and take it, and feel SO MUCH BETTER when my thyroid is under control. I cannot emphasize enough how crappy you feel when it is off. If horses are the same it would be unfair to him.

(Well, I don’t take a horse medicine but the same active ingredient in human form.)

[Renn_aissance]

Yeah, I’m a little alarmed to see people recommending dropping a prescription medication without consulting the vet. If I understand the OP correctly the thyroid panel was included in last month’s lab work and his levels look appropriate, but it’s useful to check that once or twice a year to make sure the horse is on the right dose (hence the recheck the OP mentioned wanting to do in June.)

A thought I didn’t see mentioned here already- you might consider swapping your fat supplement. Marine-sourced omega-3 fatty acids are more bioavailable than plant sourced. KER and Mad Barn both make such an oil supplement. You might consider switching to one of those products from the Ultimate Finish for two reasons. The first is that omega-3’s also have some research indications showing that they may be beneficial for Cushings horses, and the second is that it might help with the rain rot. (If your pasture is not in good condition at the time the horse gets rain rot, you might also consider supplementing Vitamin E.)

I don’t panic about weight loss in March and early April unless they don’t pick it right back up when the grass comes in in May, but with a horse who’s always been a hard keeper I can understand the worry.

[SmlHpy1]

@kaya842

Do you have photos of him? Also, since I don’t see it mentioned, how are his teeth?

Sounds like you have 2 (likely related) issues - the rain rot and the weight.

I agree that copper and zinc will likely help the rain rot. I would add an Omega 3 source (my choice is Contribute which is fish oil made by KPP) and potentially some Vit E as well, especially if he mostly eats hay (could be why he gets the rain rot in the winter but not so much in the summer).

I’ve never had success with fat supplements. If he’s not gaining any from it, I’d drop it and put that money towards something else.

Supersport is pretty pricey as an amino acid supplement. Tri Amino and Nutramino are more bang for your buck. Although, you may want to look into something like KIS Trace Low Selenium which has the amino acids, copper + zinc, and vit E covering more bases with one product. AZ Copper Complete and Lone Star Trace from HorseTech are also both good options (you will want to ask for no selenium if adding to a complete feed like Resolve to avoid overdose) with a flaxseed base so could cover the omega 3 as well.

Will your barn offer you a small discount if you provide all his grain? I’ve had barns do that in the past. Will they order in other Tribute products? It may be worthwhile trying a soy free option and see what that does. The KNEZ comes in a soy free option and the Wholesome Senior is soy free. My horse previously did well on the KNEZ but I ultimately took her off of it due to the soy (back then they didn’t have the soy free version).

IIWM, I’d cut the Thyro-L and ultimate finish, get him free choice alfalfa in his stall (could be soak pellets or cubes but ideally hay), switch the supersport to the KIS Low Selenium, add the Contribute and give all that 45 days or so. If he’s not progressing, I’d try the soy free grain probably starting with the Wholesome Blend Senior. My personal feed of choice is Coolstance Copra but it’s not super palatable so I mix it with the Tribute Senior, and I get that’s a PITA not everyone wants to deal with.

His teeth were done in late Oct so he should be good.

I don’t think the barn will order any other Tribute products and I no discount. Though if push comes to shove I might ask.

As for Superport - he eats it. He’s very picky. So at this point I want to give it a shot I think. We are about three weeks in.

In the past he hasn’t done the best with eating oil. He loves the Ultimate Finish. It did seem to help in when we added it in last year. I’ve just doubled it recently. With this horse if he eats something it’s really hard to switch. Anything that is a powder is really hard. Ultimate Finish does contain Omega 3’s I believe?

He is on Vitamin E. I am adding a supplement with copper and zinc in my next smartpak. it’ll be a month. His rain rot comes last summer. Definitely not in winter. I don’t consider it winter here till Dec at the earliest, but really Jan.

He never cleans up his hay. He’s never been a vacuum cleaner. Lol. So I can’t really give him more hay.

[SmlHpy1]

@fordtraktor

I would definitely not cut Thyro L if he is in a healthy range now. I have a thyroid disorder and take it, and feel SO MUCH BETTER when my thyroid is under control. I cannot emphasize enough how crappy you feel when it is off. If horses are the same it would be unfair to him.

(Well, I don’t take a horse medicine but the same active ingredient in human form.)

I am hypothyroid as well so I get it. Interestingly there are some people that believe that horses should never need thyroid meds. I’ve cut him in half to see what his numbers will be and we are retesting in June. I have not taken him off of it completely. but he was getting 2 scoops which is quite a lot I believe. I think 1 is more normal. I’ll keep him on a lower range though if it means he maintains weight.

[SmlHpy1]

@Renn_aissance

Yeah, I’m a little alarmed to see people recommending dropping a prescription medication without consulting the vet. If I understand the OP correctly the thyroid panel was included in last month’s lab work and his levels look appropriate, but it’s useful to check that once or twice a year to make sure the horse is on the right dose (hence the recheck the OP mentioned wanting to do in June.)

A thought I didn’t see mentioned here already- you might consider swapping your fat supplement. Marine-sourced omega-3 fatty acids are more bioavailable than plant sourced. KER and Mad Barn both make such an oil supplement. You might consider switching to one of those products from the Ultimate Finish for two reasons. The first is that omega-3’s also have some research indications showing that they may be beneficial for Cushings horses, and the second is that it might help with the rain rot. (If your pasture is not in good condition at the time the horse gets rain rot, you might also consider supplementing Vitamin E.)

I don’t panic about weight loss in March and early April unless they don’t pick it right back up when the grass comes in in May, but with a horse who’s always been a hard keeper I can understand the worry.

Yes the thyroid test in March was in range, but high enough that I might be able to cut the supplement. So we are trying that. From 2 scoops to 1. We are checking again in June. Initially when we started he was not in range on 1 scoop, but now he’s well within range so I want to play with it. Mostly because I’m aware it could contribute to his struggle to maintain weight. If I have to increase again I will.

So Ultimate Finish has omega 3. You’re saying it’s plant sourced and not as readily available? He does get Vitamin E. I didn’t include that in my initial post.

I agree about not panicking. Some people at the barn say this is common this time of year. But it’s worse than last year. I did mention that this is quite a lifestyle change from before. We were at our previous barn for 12 years. So I don’t have the “history” to know what his normal coming out of winter is like. If this is a coming out of winter issue, then I really need to figure out how to make it not this dramatic next year. I’m also not really willing to change too much more than I already have until June. I promised myself to give everything time and to allow him to eat grass. lol