Thoughts on Tribute feed?

[SmlHpy1]

I have a 29 OTTB struggling to maintain weight. He’s always been a hard keeper and never on a diet. But I’m starting to question if he’d do better on a different grain. That being said I already provide my own hay and really don’t want to pay for grain. In that case I’m paying board for zero food?

He’s on 4 lbs of Resolve twice a day along with Ultimate Finish 40 fat supplement.
Per discussion with vet (bloodwork was done) I’ve increased the fat supplement from 4 oz to 8 oz and added Supersport. He’s lost topline and weight (more topline IMO).

He is PPID.,not IR, and on thyro L due to low thyroid. We did allll the bloodwork last month. CBC, Chem and Metabolic panel. Everything looked good. His acth was in range. His thyroid levels were normal as well but I asked to decrease the thyro L because I know that can increase metabolism and cause weight loss.

But. … some thoughts here. . . we moved to this barn in March of 2020. It was quite a lifestyle change for him. Instead of solo turnout in a small dry lot, he was now in a large pasture (~ 3 acres) with friends. Turnout at night in the summer. Grass is . . . eh. . . it’s ok, not great. Round bale in winter. Barn feeds Tribute and grass hay. I couldn’t maintain his weight on grass hay, I bring alfalfa.

Every winter that we’ve been there, we have dealt with rain rot. I’ve had him since he was 7 and never had rain rot (I didn’t even recognize it or know how to treat) . I do realize that his environment changed and is much more natural now. He’s out in rain, and before he wasn’t. But I groom and bathe him and try hard to prevent this every year. I feel like his coat is crappy now. It is lacking shine. An area I clipped in August is still noticeable. There seems to be some patchy issues on his back. Overall I’m not happy with the coat.

I realize I have an uphill battle due to age/medical. People at the barn say that many horses drop weight coming out of winter as they go off the hay bale searching for grass and there isn’t enough. I haven’t been there long enough to know my boy’s pattern. He did drop last year, but not as much as this year. So maybe there’s something to that.

I think I’ve stopped the weight loss with the recent addition of supplements. But I was reading about Tribute (both here on COTH and in a FB group I found - Jim the feed guy). Someone here in COTH said they also dealt with rain rot issue on tribute, not before that and then not again after they changed feed.

I’ve read that Tribute spun off from Buckeye. I fed Buckeye EQ8 Senior at my previous barn. It’s not easily accessible though. I considered Purina Equine Senior, but I’m surprised the fat content is so low. Lower than Resolve.

I might be rambling, but I just question the nutritional value of my grain given the struggles I’m having. But I also don’t know that I’m ready to pay for my grain myself on top of my hay. I planned to reassess him in June after 2 months of the supplement changes and we will also updated bloodwork to check the thyroid levels as well. But overall - what have people experienced with Tribute? Anything similar to this? The FB group seems to indicate many many horses that just couldn’t keep condition on Tribute feeds. Even with adding more and more. . . .

[usernameTaken]

I have had great results with Tribute feed. I don’t feed Resolve, however. Maybe it matters which Tribute feed? I had a hard keeper older mare, we tried vet recommended feeding programs (we took her to Cornell), and she wouldn’t eat them, so they didn’t work. After consulting both the vet and a nutritionist, we opted to try Tribute. She was on the EK GC (Essential K with glucosamine, chondroitin etc) ration balancer AND the Kalm Ultra. Nothing else. She thrived. I mean really thrived. She looked great and felt great. Everyone at the barn gets EKGC ration balancer only now, including the minis (appropriately sized portion), it has done wonders for the minis, they had terrible coats and feet before - they were on the purina mini feed prior. I don’t have anyone that needs the Kalm Ultra at the moment, but I still buy a bag here and there to put about a cup’s worth on top of the ration balancer when they come in at night (well, everyone but the minis). I have never had rain rot while they’ve been on the feed. Everyone is shiny and soft, and their feet look great. The feed store had special ordered it for me at the time for my old mare and recently told me that the EK / EKGC) and Kalm Ultra are their biggest sellers now.

FWIW I later found out Tribute has equine nutritionists on staff and can answer questions for free. I have reached out to them before when I wanted to check about mini portions. Might not hurt to call/email them.

Good luck, I hope you figure something out. Every horse seems to be different, which can be very frustrating sometimes.

[JB]

Add copper and zinc, it can be that simple

Just be careful talking to Tribute “nutritionists”. A lot of them regularly recommend 2-3lb of Essential K (ration balancer) * on top of* 5-6-7lb of a regular feed. Another one recently told someone to under-feed a regular feed, then add Essential K, when the horse is a hard keeper and needs weight. So, caveat emptor when it comes to their people :\

For a PPID horse, I would stick to the lower NSC feeds - Kalm N Easy, Seniority Low NSC - if you wanted to try something other than Resolve.

Purina Equine Sr is also a lower calorie feed, closer to 1400 than 1500, if that matters.

Every feed of every brand has some set of horses who don’t do well. Maybe Resolve isn’t the best for this horse, but maybe the KNE is?

[awaywego]

@JB

A lot of them regularly recommend 2-3lb of Essential K (ration balancer) * on top of* 5-6-7lb of a regular feed.

This was what my horse was on at a previous barn - he does look better than when he was just getting Kalm & EZ so maybe there is some valid reasoning behind the suggestion.

[SmlHpy1]

Copper and Zinc? For hair quality? I can look into that. Is that something I can feed too much of if I’m not careful?

I messaged Tribute via FB back when I moved to this barn. I wasn’t super impressed with the responses. I also feed 2 bs alfalfa pellets with one meal. That puts me over the “limit” of 5lbs concentrate per feeding. My guy is a slow eater though and will kind of graze on his pellets - eating hay for a bit before finishing them it seems. So I’m not fully comfortable increasing the amount of grain he gets each feeding. Ideally I’d do a third meal, but not an option at my barn.

My barn feeds Resolves, Kalm Ultra and Essential K. I doubt I could get her to offer another feed.

What am I missing in regards to calorie content - where is that listed? The best I could find for Tribute was this link: https://tributeequinenutrition.com/blogs/news/comparing-calories
Are you giving me cals/lb above? Purina Senior is also lower fat, which I think is not desirable for me.

I agree that every brand has horses that don’t do well. When I look at the horses on the most grain at my barn (the apparent harder keepers, older horses) they all seem like they could look better. They need a bit more weight and to be a bit more round imo. So that’s another reason I question this grain.

[ParadoxFarm]

I had switched my horses (2 OTTBs and one Ap/Trak, one WB) to Kalm Ultra (also tried Kalm N EZ) and Essential K. For whatever reason, my hard keeper did not do well on this feed at all. He was really quite skinny. I switched them to Pro Elite Performance, and he’s looking a lot better. I had forgotten that I used the Tribute years ago for another OTTB, and he didn’t do well on it either. Now, the other three were fine, just one OTTB now and one OTTB in the past. Sometimes it’s just trial and error.

[SusanO]

Why is he on “thyroid meds”. Do you mean Prascend? I am not a vet but I can’t figure out why an older horse that has a problem holding his weight would be on something like Thyroxine (sp) that speeds up his metabolism. Especially since he is not IR. Or maybe you mean something else?

[SmlHpy1]

No I mean Thyroid meds. Because his metabolic panel showed low thyroid and when it dropped lower, we decided to supplement. I obviously followed my vets advice. Though I did request to cut the dose in half. I may have to have the conversation about dropping it completely.

[barnesthenoble]

I’m a little bit confused–he is or he isn’t PPID based on bloodwork? Was that diagnosis recent?

All of these could be symptoms of untreated PPID, especially in a 29yo. I’d be seriously exploring Prascend. You won’t feed your way out of it if the issue is PPID.

[RhythmNCruise]

I’ve never been terribly impressed with Tribute feeds, and I have experience with the Essential K, the Seniority textured (yikes!), and the Kalm N EZ. There’s nothing inherently wrong with the EK or KNEZ, but they just didn’t work as well for my horse as my brand of choice: Triple Crown. I used to feed Triple Crown Senior pretty religiously and always with great results. I now feed Triple Crown Gold Balancer, and it combined with alfalfa and beet pulp pellets, some flax and canola oil, and some salt = the best results from a feed I’ve ever seen. I also make sure my horse gets plenty of hay, which is the number one priority.

But yeah. For me, Tribute just never cut it. I was glad when I left the barn that used it and got my horse back on my own feeding program

[SmlHpy1]

He’s on prascend. His levels are normal. Which is stated above.

[SmlHpy1]

Triple Crown is high on my list if I provide my own.

[barnesthenoble]

Ok. Both posts just say “Thyroid meds” and when specifically asked about if he’s on Prascend, you said:

@SmlHpy1

No I mean Thyroid meds.

So this is the first post where you’ve explicitly stated he’s on Prascend. I’m glad he’s doing well on it.

Personally, I really like the Triple Crown products. I have no experience with Tribute, since afaik nowhere local stocks it on the west coast and I haven’t been interested enough to order it from Chewy.

[SmlHpy1]

The question was if I really meant thyroid meds. Which I did. I mentioned those because it’s something I’m changing currently along with the supplement changes. I didn’t state he was on prascend because I mentioned he is PPID and his values were in range. My brain just assumed that it would be understood they were in range due to prascend. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[SmlHpy1]

His metabolic panel from last month was the best we’ve had. ACTH, thyroid and insulin all looked fabulous.

[barnesthenoble]

@SmlHpy1

His metabolic panel from last month was the best we’ve had. ACTH, thyroid and insulin all looked fabulous.

That’s awesome! Genuinely really glad to hear he’s doing well on the meds. It can be tough to deal with.

Yes, apologies, it wasn’t obvious to me but I can understand your thought process.

Also seconding JB’s recommendation to add Cu/Zn. It can make a big difference. Custom Equine Nutrition, California Trace, and MadBarn all have good, fairly affordable supplements that are just Cu/Zn. It’s not super palatable, so definitely start slowly if he’s picky.

[fordtraktor]

I currently feed Essential K and TC Senior. I have fed the Tribute Kalm N Ez before (didn’t like it) and Kalm Ultra (made them look great but when I had one develop Cushings, NSC was too high).

If it was my horse I would drop the Tribute and switch him to TC Senior. I like the higher-quality Tribute in general, but it just isn’t low enough NSC for a horse with these issues IMO.

I feel your pain on price, but solid nutritional health is a priority.

I do find that many horses won’t eat the alf pellets like they do a “grain.” I would probably drop those and feed 4-5 qts. TC Senior twice a day. That is what I feed my Cushings client. My ancient pony gets even more TCS.

[TWH_Girl]

I’d probably wean him from the thyroid medication he doesn’t require any longer as it does unnecessarily speed up metabolism which he doesn’t need. In a 29 yr old with PPID, I truly don’t think this is a grain issue and the horse has not been on Prascend long enough for this to help his condition. Tribute is a good brand and the particular products you have him are appropriate. I would give the medication changes more time.

[SmlHpy1]

He’s been on prascend for probably three years! That’s long enough.

What do you mean he doesn’t need the thryo med? Without it was under range and therefore hypothyroid. With the medication he finally became in range. So I’m not sure what you mean.

[atr]

How about leaving him on what the barn feeds, but subbing in some amount of TC Senior instead of the alfalfa pellets to top it up? Then you aren’t just shoveling dollar bills down his throat willy-nilly and should be able to cover your nutritional bases.