Thyro-L not working?

[Pocket_Pony]

I’m on my second tub of Thyro-L for Mac. I was worried about his weight in the summer and my vet prescribed this. He is not getting any grass and his hay is currently at 18 lb of low-NSC grass hay per day. He gets one scoop of Thyro-L am & pm (the scoop in the bucket, which I think is 1 tsp).

He eats 4x/day and his hay is weighed. He hasn’t gotten much exercise lately as I’ve been busy with various doctor’s appointments.

I took him to the vet last Monday for a re-check of blood work and his numbers are worse, not better. Per the vet:

Mac’s insulin continues to be elevated at 59.24 uIU/ml (reference range 10-40); last time he was at 54. His leptin is also fairly elevated at 19.89 ng/ml (reference range 1-10), indicating he still needs to lose weight.
Vet suggested decreasing his hay by 20%, which I will do right away. What else should I be doing/considering?

I want to call the vet but wanted to get some ideas of other things to ask her about so that I can get all my answers at once. More Thyro-L once a day or twice a day?

Currently all the horses get turned out together for lunch time and it is possible that (since he’s a bully) he’s pushing them off their hay to get more, but I hang the hay nets far enough apart that he has to move and rotate to get to them and I think everyone has figured out that they should get theirs or else.

Would more exercise help his blood levels? What else?

[Pocket_Pony]

Wanted to add - he gets no grain, either. To mix his supplements he gets a small amount of timothy hay pellets. He also gets Remission and Mag Restore (1 scoop of each). Other supplements are salt (in his tub and via salt block), natural Vitamin E, and MSM w/ Ester C from MVP.

[Bluey]

The only way to know what he is eating is to feed him by himself.
He may be eating some of the other horse’s hay.

The one 18 year old Cushings horse we have is on Prascend and thyroid supplement, five of the little blue spoon in that container once a day on a very little complete ration and Nutrena’s Triumph senior feed to mix the powder in, no other supplements.

He gets an extremely small, thin flake of alfalfa morning and night and about the same of some grass hay.

He lost weight fine and is keeping it off, even his way too fat neck.

He is not IR as per blood work, so maybe not the same as yours, but I wonder if yours is getting enough thyroid supplement?

[luvmyhackney]

Either up his Thryro-l with vet approval and soak his hay to get the starch out as well.We had one mare at barn that got 3 scoops 2X a day for the first month, then leveled out at 2 scoops am /1 scoop pm. Was he stressed when levels checked?? That can cause an increase as well.

[shezabrazenmare]

One of my horses is hypo-thyroid and the Thryo-L gave him ribs and withers for the first time in his life. He’s cut back to a tiny amt now. Never got more than one scoop a day 3 years ago.
Did not work on my other horse who obviously is not hypo-thyroid.

[Pocket_Pony]

[QUOTE=luvmyhackney;8896105]
Either up his Thryro-l with vet approval and soak his hay to get the starch out as well.We had one mare at barn that got 3 scoops 2X a day for the first month, then leveled out at 2 scoops am /1 scoop pm. Was he stressed when levels checked?? That can cause an increase as well.[/QUOTE]

Probably was stressed. First blood test was at home right after he was given a sedative for dental work. Last week I hauled him to the vet, unloaded, and they pulled blood in the parking lot.

[2miniB]

I wouldn’t restrict his hay too much, since that can make IR worse. One of my minis got fatter on restricted hay than on 2.5% of her body weigt in hay in slow feeders.

I’d make sure the hay is <10% NSC and feed that in slow feeders. Start out with 2" holes and gradually decrease the hole size as needed to make the hay last until the next feeding. Right now, I just fill hay feeders once a days once my horses have self regulated. And I have a pony and 2 minis.

Platinum Metabolic Support worked best out of the metabolic products I’ve tried. I was extremely skeptical at first, but Riva’s Remedies supplements also worked very well for mine. These 2 are what’s been best for my horses, and I’ve tried everything I could find over the past 6 years.

[JB]

What’s the NSC Of the hay?

How much does he weigh?

[Pocket_Pony]

NSC is I think 9.6 (I’m at work and don’t have my analysis in front of me). He weighs about 1050-1100 lb. He’s 15.1-15.2. Stout guy with big bone.

[horsepoor]

You might ask about upping the Thyro-L for a while - we had to go to 4 tsp/day for mine to drop weight after he foundered, since we could not exercise him on his ouchy feet. But if the horse can be exercised, that would really make a difference. Even just 15 minutes a day on a lunge can do wonders. I also bet he’s getting more of that lunch hay than you think he is as I swear some of them can hoover up at 4x the speed of others!

[JB]

That’s pretty low, so that’s good.

If he should weigh 1000lb then he can have 15lb of hay, but I wouldn’t really go any less. That’s down roughly the 20% the vet mentioned, but I think it’s a better idea to talk about hay weight in relation to what he should weigh - safer.

If he’s still leptin resistant, it may not be something you can change. Or it might take a long time.

Have you seen this article?
http://www.thehorse.com/articles/28821/commentary-considerations-for-the-ir-horse

[Pocket_Pony]

Thanks for the link, JB. I think I may have read that before. I have a hard time with understand the bottom line of that article, though.

At the end I did appreciate the list of things to follow and so I will add some flax and increase the exercise. We were doing well with 4-5 rides per week but then I had other stuff going on and so stopped that for a few weeks now. He does get turnout and if all else fails, I can lunge him or free-lunge him in the arena.

Oh! One question from it. The article stated that “Most IR horses need a hay based diet with combined simple sugars (ethanol-soluble carbohydrates, or ESC, on hay analysis) and starch of 10% or lower.”

I thought that low NSC was WSC + starch, no?

If it is ESC + starch, then my hay is 7.6 and my next batch that I’ve got in for winter is 8.0.

Comments on that?

[csaper58]

Thyro-L treats Thyroid disease, it is not a weight loss supplement. If the thyroid is functioning correctly it should not be used.

New studies with humans indicates that exercise (walking) within 30 minutes of eating is excellent for helping to control both insulin and weight.

So yes exercise will help. I would start with mild exercise, just walking, in case his feet are pre- lamimitic

I would, if possible, soak his hay to remove as much sugar as possible instead of drastically cutting back the amount.

[starsandsun]

Thyro-L dose, per both of my vets, is 2 tablespoons per day for 2 weeks; bump to 3 tablespoons if horse is not losing weight.

[Ghazzu]

I would speak to your vet about temporarily upping the Thyro-L, but I would also definitely increase his exercise.

[horsepoor]

[QUOTE=starsandsun;8897453]
Thyro-L dose, per both of my vets, is 2 tablespoons per day for 2 weeks; bump to 3 tablespoons if horse is not losing weight.[/QUOTE]

The scoop included is a teaspoon size. I’ve never done more than 4 teaspoons daily. 2 tablespoons would be 6 teaspoons (or 6 scoops). And 3 tablespoons would be 9 teaspoons! So I’m hoping you meant to say teaspoon instead of tablespoon??

[Ghazzu]

[QUOTE=csaper58;8897402]
Thyro-L treats Thyroid disease, it is not a weight loss supplement. If the thyroid is functioning correctly it should not be used.

.[/QUOTE]

Actually, there is support in the published veterinary literature for use of Thyro-L to facilitate weight loss in IR horses.

[starsandsun]

Thanks for asking for clarification - no, it is TABLESPOONS.

[merrygoround]

Some how you must start exercising him. Longe, ride, find someone to ride him.

You can only decrease hay so far. And Yes! He will steal other horse’s hay.

[horsepoor]

[QUOTE=starsandsun;8897869]
Thanks for asking for clarification - no, it is TABLESPOONS.[/QUOTE]

That sounds like a lot then and I’d suggest anyone considering such dosage check with their own vet before proceeding. Pretty sure my vet would be :eek: about that dosage.