Tick treatment (ground spray) and horses

[Sarah_uk]

My neighbors are planning to get together and do a streetwide tick spray due to several cases of Lyme. I have tried to get info from both the companies and the vet on whether we should be concerned about run off or spray drift to where the horses graze but nobody seems to have any info. One of the companies just kept saying, well it’s organic - well so is arsenic…so that doesn’t help!

One of the companies has cedar oil as the active ingredient and the other chrysanthemum. Anybody come across this or have any info?

[Guin]

I don’t think cedar or chrysanthemum extracts, would hurt grazing animals, but it sounds like an easy way for the landscaping company to get rich. Ticks are indestructible. Might work if you picked up each individual tick and dropped it into a bucketful and drowned them.

[Guin]

"[B]Cedar Oil (Cedarwood)

[/B]Cedar Oil is proven to be one of the most effective Repellents and Pesticides for arthropods. And the best part, it is safe for people, pets, and the environment. Cedarwood Oil used therapeutically gently stimulates the circulatory system (do not use internally).

Note: There is a myth that cedar oil is harmful for rabbits. Studies show that this is not the case. However, frequent Cedar Oil use, use in large amounts, or ingestion by humans or animals can be toxic, so exposure should be limited."

[Frog_Pond]

Here is a good link to an explanation of pyrethroids. The biologist who wrote it summarized the article:

There is a lot of confusion over the insecticide names permethrin and pyrethrum. Permethrin is a man-made insecticide whose chemistry is based on natural pyrethrum. This article examines the important differences between these similar-sounding pesticides.

The only smart addition I can make here is this: pesticide salespeople and sprayers are not always careful to make the distinction between the synthetic and the organic . . . and can fall back on the argument that all pyrethrums are ‘based on’ mums. Which is true – it’s called synthetic organic chemistry for a reason – we are copying nature, or trying to! Their stuff has a label on it that specifies – if you want to know, hold their feet to the fire until they read it to you, or provide it in print.

[Sarah_uk]

Thank you for your replies, we were not planning on spraying ourselves as we have some doubts on effectiveness (and level of exposure - natural / organic does not = safe as far as I’m concerned), just worried that our paddocks downhill from neighbors in 2 directions are going to get drift and run off, one neighbor is very concerned not to cause any harm to the horses and would accept influence, the other doesn’t care but if the group went the less harmful route they would need to follow suit to get the group discount.

[LauraKY]

There are better ways to control ticks without using a neighborhood spraying plan.

Tick tubes are a great start: http://www.ticktubes.

Keep a 3’ wide mulched or dirt border between woodland edges and yards. Keep yards and pastures mowed. I used to spray the perimeter of my yard with permethrin every 3 weeks until we got the ticks under control.

I wouldn’t wish Lyme or co-infections on my worst enemy. It’s worth it to take drastic preventative measures.

OP do you use fly spray? Most fly sprays have a permethrin base.

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=Frog Pond;8125467]
Here is a good link to an explanation of pyrethroids. The biologist who wrote it summarized the article:

There is a lot of confusion over the insecticide names permethrin and pyrethrum. Permethrin is a man-made insecticide whose chemistry is based on natural pyrethrum. This article examines the important differences between these similar-sounding pesticides.

The only smart addition I can make here is this: pesticide salespeople and sprayers are not always careful to make the distinction between the synthetic and the organic . . . and can fall back on the argument that all pyrethrums are ‘based on’ mums. Which is true – it’s called synthetic organic chemistry for a reason – we are copying nature, or trying to! Their stuff has a label on it that specifies – if you want to know, hold their feet to the fire until they read it to you, or provide it in print.[/QUOTE]

Synthetic organic chemistry is awesome! I use my textbooks are doorstops or to attack assailants/muggers with.

[Blume_Farm]

[QUOTE=Guin;8125416]
"[B]Cedar Oil (Cedarwood)

[/B]Cedar Oil is proven to be one of the most effective Repellents and Pesticides for arthropods. And the best part, it is safe for people, pets, and the environment. Cedarwood Oil used therapeutically gently stimulates the circulatory system (do not use internally).

Note: There is a myth that cedar oil is harmful for rabbits. Studies show that this is not the case. However, frequent Cedar Oil use, use in large amounts, or ingestion by humans or animals can be toxic, so exposure should be limited."[/QUOTE]

I’m not exactly sure where this quote was taken, but I can firmly say that it may be true in a controlled environment (ie; lab) but not in real life! I can’t tell you how many of my clients try the natural/ organic route for tick prevention/ treatment in my area. Cedar Oil is their favorite. They quickly come in to get the “chemical” stuff.

[Frog_Pond]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8125508]
Synthetic organic chemistry is awesome! I use my textbooks are doorstops or to attack assailants/muggers with.[/QUOTE]
Yup, this pretty much sums up my entire, deep understanding of chemistry. :lol:

[Chall]

Don’t Guinea hens and chickens keep ticks in check? You could convince your neighbors to go that route.

[SC90]

Tick Tubes are supposed to be effective, but you can make them yourself by soaking cotton balls in permethrin and stuffing the dried cotton balls into empty toilet rolls. You can buy concentrated permethrin at Tractor Supply.

http://blog.shopforpuppy.com/2015/04/23/easy-ways-to-get-rid-of-ticks-in-your-yard/

[SMF11]

There is no one magic bullet with tick prevention. Tick tubes are good, but not really effective in my opinion.

find out what spray they are using; almost certainly it is permethrin.

After 4 bouts of Lyme, 2 of ehrlichiosis in myself, and two of my boys having Lyme I sprayed around the barns a few years ago. I’d think of continuing this except the cost was pretty high.

I agree with you OP that natural does not equal safe. However, I did do research on the permethrin spray and it apparently breaks down in sunshine in a matter of hours. In other words, it has less residual effects in the environment than other pesticides. I had a whole discussion with the spraying company about Rosemary Oil – the University of Maine found it to be a very effective tick repellent. However, as far as I could tell no one was using it commercially (though this was a few years ago).

I found a notable reduction in ticks with the spraying.

I agree with LauraKY, it is worth taking serious measures to deal with ticks.

The tick tubes, spraying, mowing grass, removing leaf litter, having a border area , not feeding birds (ticks drop off them into otherwise “safe” lawn areas), wearing permethrin treated clothing if you are working outdoors, or, removing your clothes immediately and putting them in the dryer for a hour or two, showering at night, doing tick checks (though understand that this is not at all fail safe and you can easily miss tiny ticks), and finally, taking a couple of doses of doxycycline if you’ve been bitten are all measures you can take (and I do).

(PS the doxy within 24 hours of a tick bite is accepted by all medical professionals (it’s been studied) but there is some disagreement over how much/how long to take the doxy. The one study showed that one doses of doxy was effective (but not 100% effective) and there have been no other studies of whether or not two doses, or two days (4 doses) or a week would be more effective.)