I just bought a 16" Circle Y Park and Trail for my OTTB. He’s got a flatter back, well sprung ribs and a bit of a wither. More appendix build than TB.
I thought it was fitting OK, he is relaxed in it and the WP/trail rider I bought it from felt if fit him fine enough - just a bit wide in front which seem to be fixed with an additional pad under the wither area.
I have a 1" 5 Star felt pad and usually use my small jump pad under the front.
However, I can’t seem to keep the cinch tight - it seems fine when I get on but many times everything shifts to one side or the other when my horse gets fresh. I have to get off and re-tighten the cinch frequently. Do I need a leather cinch strap as opposed to the nylon one it came with?
I have a Weaver comfort felt cinch - is that the problem? My horse is sensitive and goes in a sheepskin girth cover when I ride english. He seems comfortable with the cinch, apart from me having to re-tighten it and reposition the saddle constantly.
Although the saddle is comfy, everything about it feels huge to me.
Try less pad. Often a thicker pad causes the saddle to wallow. Do you really need the second pad at the wither or is it keeping the saddle from settling on the back?
You might try nit getting on right after you tack up but hand walking and then lunging as you gradually tighten the girth. Might be a little cold backed but if the saddle isn’t settling on his back and wallowing, that would make a horse uncomfortable and cause that cold backed behavior, puffing up when girthed to avoid the discomfort.
Hate riding with too much pad, like a ship at sea. Horse connot possibly like that either…
If it’s not the padding, the saddle doesn’t fit well enough to work with creative padding to make it fit.
Huh, less pad did not occur to me, since I assumed the more “support” the better, but I am new to western saddle fitting (obviously!). I’ll try and find a thinner pad to try and see how it goes. Do the nylon straps make a difference? They were the first things I thought to change, but maybe it doesn’t matter if the saddle is sitting down more.
Re: “everything about it feels huge to me”
What size English saddle do you ride? I ride a 16-1/2 to 17 and my western saddle is a 14-1/2. Maybe the saddle is too big for you and your instability (meaning due to lack of support, not your skills) is causing the saddle to move on the horse’s back.
Yeah, you might feel like the saddle is large. I ride in a 17.5" jumping saddle and a 14.5" barrel saddle. I’m a little outside the standard rule of thumb but that is what’s comfortable for me. Ultimately, it comes down to what you are comfortable with.
Agree with the suggestion to try less padding. My saddles fit my horses well and I just use a 1/2" thickness 5 Star pad. That’s plenty.
If it is indeed wide in front, that might be why it rolls (if it’s too wide).
Personally, I’ve had issues with the Weaver cinches I’ve tried in the past but maybe that’s just me. I don’t know why, but the professionals choice brand words better for me.
Also, there’s no rear cinch in your photo.
That particular saddle has what looks like a full double rigging. It’s designed to be used with a snug, not tight, rear cinch . That should help the saddle not wallow. The rear cinch adds stability.
I’ve never had a full double rigged western saddle that I really Liked how it fit. Mine are between 7/8 and 3/4 rigged, meaning that the main, front cinch ring on the saddle is positioned farther back. But I have had full double rigged saddles that were an OK fit.
Be careful with the rear cinch if your horse has never worn one. Horse can interpret it as a bucking strap.
Oh, and I like a real mohair cinch with big, flat rings. The mohair has some grip and stretch, and it’s breathable. Works really well on about any horse, sensitive or not.
The flat, comfortable buckle imI talking about is the Bork bronze buckle on this page:
I know exactly what you mean by feeling like you’re riding in a boat on the ocean. I have spent most of my life riding hunt seat. I spend more time in a western saddle now. My western saddle is the proper size for me and it’s quite comfortable, but it always feels like way too much saddle. It isn’t the size of the seat so much as it’s just that there is so much more to the saddle.
I do have a western saddle that is more of a stripped down style (like this https://www.dhrss.com/shop-special-saddle.html) and it feels more “normal” to me. I don’t get that “OMG so much saddle!” feel from it. Sadly, both the mule I bought it for and I are considerable larger than when I purchased it so it’s just sitting in the corner. :lol:
As far as the cinch tightening goes, I do it gradually. I’ll fasten it loosely when I first put it on, go do something else, come back and tighten. Lead the horse out to the ring. Check and tighten a bit more. Lead horse around the ring and do a little ground work (flexing, yielding hindquarters, etc.). Tighten cinch again. Lead horse toward mounting block. Check and tighten cinch again. Mount up.
As far as your saddle pad goes, if you feel like you need more pad under the front of the saddle, you might try some type of correction pad that allows you to add shims or has extra padding below the withers already built in.
I second Bork cinches and suggest the buckle that is squared off, so your latigo kies flat, and always a buckle with a center crossbar for extra strength.
That said, I don’t think the cinch makes a difference regarding rolling. But too wide and too much padding will cause roll. Addng a breast collar “helps” only to secure a poor fit, so don’t fall into that trap.
Rodnikkel.com has a lot of great saddle fit info.
Did you mention nylon?
I find they frequently slip and stretch. Switch them out for leather. It should make a difference on having to constantly re -tighten.
I’ve heard people say this, but now days, cinches fasten with a buckle - the tongue of the buckle on the cinch goes in the hole in the latigo. I don’t get how it can slip.
I’d also agree you’re over padding.
Try less and see what happens. From the picture you posted it looks perched on his back rather than sitting on it.
Also agree with Fillabeana, your saddle is meant to be used with a back cinch. Stability and it evens the pull on the tree. When you use only a front cinch on a full double you put all the pressure on the front of the bars, behind the shoulders.
From your picture it looks as though you are using the tongue on the cinch, not tying a farmers knot in your latigo. Doesn’t make a difference if it’s latigo or nylon if that’s the case. I prefer a leather latigo but your cinch loosening isn’t the problem anyhow. I’m betting it is you resetting your saddle and cinching back up and sucking it to him trying to get it to stay put.
Squared off cinch buckles don’t do anything. The only thing they are good for is if you have the perfect rigging matches with the cinch groove situation. If things shift or things are off the square off corners can stretch or wear out a latigo faster.
the old school round ones keep your latigo flatter and even pull if things shift.
Your latigo is most likely to break before your cinch ring if in a wreck or due to wear.
The cross bar is a good way to get a spur hung if you run short cinches.
All personal preference of course.
I don’t love how it sits on him. Try less padding, that 1" 5 Star is a nice pad but it’s possibly making it wallow on him, especially with the way that front cinch ties into the tree (I prefer them set back a bit) You can’t get it snug because you aren’t able to overcome that thick pad on a stout horse. It’s not the Latigo and I doubt your girth is too long, doesn’t look like it. Can you borrow a thinner pad and maybe a wider roping style girth, just for kicks, to try it? Those particular saddles have more of a “decorative” rear girth…note the flimsy in skirt attachment…so I don’t think it matters in this case.
I know that this will sound very basic, and you probably have thought of this, but does your horse play the “INHALE” game?
The rigging can make a huge difference. I’ll try to explain, it’s easier in person with examples of all three rigging options but Ill try. Each choice is better for certain jobs then others and often effects how the saddle sits on the horse.
With the full double rigged saddle, most of the saddle is behind that front girth which sits right behind the horses elbow. 95% of that sits behind that point, you can’t pull it up further over the shoulder. The rear skirts often will hit right over the flank depending on the horse. Looking at OPs horse here, I get the urge to pull that saddle up further over the shoulder…but the rigging prevents that. IMO the rigging on this saddle puts it too far back on this horse.
Do NOT recommend using the back cinch on this particular full rigged saddle, there’s no metal ring, just a slit in the skirt leather, which is not a secure, solid anchor, the skirt will bend with any pressure, over time the bend is permanent. It’s decorative, not for keeping the back down when a steer hits the end of the rope, riding in rough country or because the front cinch is loose.
7/8th rigging moves the front cinch back but still slightly ahead of the leading edge of the fender. More of the saddle sits ahead of the front girth and it sits forward over the shoulder and does not go so back over the loin.
3/4 rigging pretty much goes right under the fender, centers the saddle on the back better but some riders don’t like it right under the leg and it’s not the best choice for some jobs.
Most use either 7/8 or 3/4 and IMO OP should try both on her horse. Everybody gets hung up on tree width and bars but there’s more to fitting the Western saddle then that, mainly where the rigging allows it to sit in the horses backandthars something creative padding won’t fix.
Oh, you got two choices in cinches, a strap with pre set holes a couple of inches apart and another wider strap with a buckle or a latigo strap and mohair cinch with allows precise adjustment. Guess which one allows more finesse in fitting which translates to more security and a more comfortable horse? If you must have the buckle, please don’t use nylon web. Some riders don’t like the feel of the buckle or latigo under their leg with the 3/4 rigging, that’s dependent on how rotund the belly of the horse is and the individual rider preference and sometimes their size and build.
Just food for thought. But IMO the rigging here puts this saddle too far back on this horse.
Ahhh yes, the rigging! There are two rings here to attach the cinch to, (this pic was taken when I first tried the saddle and the owner had done it up on my horse). I have been using the second ring to attach the cinch to, which is an inch or so further back under where my leg sits. I have the cinch attached at the second ring, and then loop it through the first to “tie”.
I do have to keep moving the saddle forward over the withers! And it seems like the saddle extends past his hip when it slides around.
I agree a back cinch would probably help with the bit of bounce I get in the back, however, this horse is predisposed to crow hop when he feels the urge under the best circumstances, and I don’t want to encourage him!
So it sounds like, as well as having too much padding, the rigging is not set right for my horse?
Western saddle fit is a mystery to me. Only after 30+ of english riding have I a good idea of how that saddle should fit!
My horse does not hold his breath, fortunately! I do groundwork and lunge a bit before mounting and start out tightening slowly. It seems like there may be too much going on with this saddle that is working against us.
I should add that as I last did up a cinch regularly on a western saddle as a kid many decades ago, there were no buckles. So I have not yet mastered how to buckle the cinch to get it to “lock”. I know, I know - clueless!
Just a word of caution on the nylon latigo. I had one ages ago and loved it, but even buckled, they can come undone from the buckle. Learned that on a trail ride (and I’d been using this saddle for years) and thought it seemed a little loose. Got off and the entire thing had come undone.
Replaced it with leather and have used leather since then. Never a problem.
Tightening the cinch (Warwick Schiller) - should answer question about “locking” the buckle
