TIME TO GUSH! training breakthrough with LDR - long post sorry!

[thecolorcoal]

so i don’t know how many of you have been following my posts with my little thoroughbred mare, but if you do not know i made the dumb new-owner decision to go at it alone. the past two months have been met with 20 steps backwards in which we are worse off than we were when i first bought her.

it has been a NIGHTMARE and constant battle for a pain-free ride and existence. first it was her soles, then it was her back, then it was her hamstrings and feet, and recently it’s been her back again. i had two chiros come out in the span of a month. “nothing’s wrong,” they said, “she’s very tight in the back but nothing so major that it would cause the sort of behavioral (read: bronco bucking) you are describing.” a lameness specialist came out with my vet, saw her x-rays, said “if she’s sound she is fine, no heat or swelling so it isn’t an issue.” new farrier commented on how very, very sore she was and that she was walking on her toes because old farrier did not support her heel resulting in crushed heel and tight hamstrings because she was basically tiptoeing around, since her heels hurt so bad. she couldn’t even hold her leg up for him - we had to get her to lean against me because of how much pain she was in.

my poor, poor baby girl. after the new shoes she moves like a NEW HORSE, but yesterday i got the ride of my life and she turned into a smoke breathing rodeo horse who threw me after a crazy bucking spree going into the canter. like, 4-foot up in the air back cracking bucks.

friends recommended i get a trainer. i had been very against this in the past because while i do know my shit as far as jumping and teaching her this part, i don’t know anything about dressage and very little about flatwork apart from your basic hunter stuff.

but after being bucked off i realized i could not do this alone anymore, so i called up our local 5-star eventing trainer who my very good friend uses and asked her to give my mare a training ride. i initially had planned for this to be a respect-focused ride because at that point, considering every physical nook and cranny was excavated, everyone thought she was just being a b!+ch, even though this behavior is SO very unlike her.

i explain to the trainer what happened, that whenever she presented herself with any resistance or pain/bucking my first inclination was to dismount and do a physical check. i originally thought me doing this was teaching her that acting out = getting to go home.

she takes my saddle off, runs her hands down her back, and goes “oh my god” as my horse’s back convexes in a severe flinch.

this lady is also a saddle fitter, so she went about checking my saddle fit. according to her it does fit, but the panels my saddle has (wintec cc) grab her back. however, she said it fits well enough where this should not be such a big issue, and that she would ride anyway because she had a “hunch” it was something more.

so she gets on, and my horse becomes the classic giraffe she always is, sticking her nose and resisting. first comment trainer makes: “she is very, very hollow. this is why her back is sore - she has no idea how to take contact.”

i explained to her i ride with a very loose rein, thinking that it would help her stretch down. trainer gradually is able to get horse to give to the bit and within 5 minutes i KID YOU NOT had this horse’s neck down, back up, and they were MOVING like what you see on tv. she was flowing from behind, haunches swinging, stretching into the trot. trainer explained she was overflexing her in the beginning because my horse did not have enough strength to support herself, so trainer would hold her for 15 seconds, then relax as soon as she gave to the bit, and once my horse started to wobble, would put her back together and repeat.

they cantered, which is when my horse normally bucks. NO BUCKING. it was GORGEOUS. she looked like a grand prix horse.

trainer: “wow she really doesn’t want to come back up. she’s really comfortable in this position.”

so next she says for me to get on. i’m a monkey see monkey do person, but i am SHOCKED: there was no argument on my horse’s part, he default was to offer me her head down, neck curled a bit. trainer told me to push her up into the bridle with my legs, so i did, and i feel her SWELL underneath me. my SADDLE fit my butt for the first time. i felt like i was sitting on a flat cushion. we were moving, gliding along. we worked on a circle. it was so easy to get her UP into the contact, so easy to get her to work from behind and really engage and i knew THE DIFFERENCE IMMEDIATELY when she started to fall apart because the feeling of together was like nothing i had ever experienced. i learned INSIDE LEG TO OUTSIDE REIN. if i kept my outside rein strong and pushed with my inside leg her body made this gorgeous arc, even better than when i “bend” her. i had RAW POWER in my hands but my god i couldn’t hold it for more than a few circles. trainer wanted to keep going but i was so, so, SO exhausted, just by holding her there and releasing when she gave.

trainer explained to me she would not stretch down if she wasn’t using her muscles, which was the case before, and we got such a nice nice nice stretchy chewy relaxed long and low walk when i released her reins.

it. was. THE COOLEST THING I’VE EVER EXPERIENCED!!!

i am sticking with this trainer, she has agreed to give me weekly and/or as-needed lessons and weekly training rides for my horse. i was SO impressed, and moreso with how easily tyra fell into this role. and once we got it there was no other option. she wanted to STAY there, she didn’t even offer to come up, and found so much comfort in my rein contact. i had always taken her for a horse that hated contact but when i released the contact (bad habits die hard), she would immediately fret and start to wobble.

it was cool, guys. i’ve never ridden dressage. i’ve never had this feeling and i sure have never ridden like this before, dressage or jumping flatwork.

trainer said if i keep this up within 6 months horsey should get muscled enough to be able to hold herself, and trainer thinks that at full physical fitness my horse will fit a medium wide saddle, which is so exciting because right now she is a narrow.

SORRY FOR GUSHING! i just really wanted to share. we were doing deep, round work but not rollkur. now that i know my horse loves dressage i really am considering turning towards eventing, especially since this trainer’s other students, after seeing my lesson, have invited me to go to a few events with them.

I AM SO HAPPY and am kicking myself for not doing this sooner. for all you nonbelievers out there: TRAINERS WORK. it’s not just for people who take lessons on horses that are not their own! and the best part is she is WELL within my budget meaning instead of spending thousands on unnecessary vet appointments and massage appointments and chiro appointments i can put that money where it really matters: LESSONS. I’m SO happy right now and i am beyond delighted to help tyra with her physical and emotional growth. more than that, i am happy we found something that makes her feel physically good, because i know it was hard for her to work the other way and we are never going back to hollow horse again!

my poor horse suffered from my bad riding but i have SEEN THE LIGHT and i am never, ever going back. dressage is the best thing that has ever happened to me and has probably saved my horse’s life.

[Laurierace]

Glad you saw the light and realized you needed help. This paragraph makes absolutely no sense to me however. You were against getting a trainer to help because you know nothing about dressage and little about flat work? Huh? Isn’t that exactly when you should get help?

friends recommended i get a trainer. i had been very against this in the past because while i do know my shit as far as jumping and teaching her this part, i don’t know anything about dressage and very little about flatwork apart from your basic hunter stuff.

[fordtraktor]

Not to mention, if you don’t understand basic dressage you know a lot less about jumping than you think.

It’s great you are reaching this decision. You should also find a jump trainer with a strong focus on flatwork and get help there too.

[SendenHorse]

many people think loose reins are nice reins, they are not. You are getting the light bulb of what it means to be on contact! Just don’t ride too deep or behind the bit.
LDR- low deep and round-- not ok! very not ok.

[TBROCKS]

I’m kind of confused here. The horse’s back is SEVERELY sore, but it’s not the saddle fit, it’s your riding? And regardless of her majorly sore back the trainer can get on and make her look like an upper level horse?
I would think that the horse needed time to heal, and then start her over again when the soreness is resolved? That’s just me.

[Velvet]

Okay, okay, I think we’re missing something here. The rider obviously does not know what upper level looks like. They also don’t understand the show designations for eventing (as in four star). So, I’m guessing it wasn’t LDR, but rather someone stretching the horse through the back and getting it to loosen up vs having it go araround hollow and completely uncomfortable. I honestly think the OP just shows complete ignorance (not saying that in a mean way, just stating a fact based on their own admission), and the trainer opened their eyes to the first step in fixing the horse and making it happier.

[ThreeFigs]

What a nice post, OP! What you describe is exactly right. Your horse may point her nose a bit behind the vertical at first, but that will change as she gains strength. As long as you have a nice elastic contact and continue to feel that elastic power from behind, you’re OK!

LDR is fine as long as it doesn’t deteriorate into the dreaded Rollkur. (That’s LDR with FORCE.

[beowulf]

now, now friends – you Don’t Know What You Don’t Know. Remember none of us were well-doctrinated in utero to the High School Of Thought that is dressage :winkgrin:

OP, kudos for you for seeing the light - that is indeed a breakthrough. Just be careful, the pursuit of knowledge is something of an opiate - you can never have enough. One day you will “wake up” and look about you disoriented as you find yourself sitting on a cold hard chair some cheerless grey 5 AM morning, your lunch and notes neatly folded in your lap as you wait for Carl Hester’s clinic to fill up, your hair riddled with the shavings + detritus of the finger-of-fire-flung stall chores done hours before – your Husband might wonder What Went Wrong with you, but we know – we all do

Now you just got to figure out what’s going on with your mare’s back… And I suspect it is the saddle. I have met very few horses who were happy about Wintecs… but I’ve met many more who hated them.

[DressageChic2]

would guess(and it is only guessing) the back is a combo of a crap saddle and poor posture…the best fitting saddle in the world will not help if the horse runs round like the U bend of a toilet!!!

so, the stretching work sounds like a positive start but you need to continue to investigate the saddle.

[SugarRush]

OP seems to have posted a training diary on another forum that sheds more light on the situation:

http://myhorseforum.com/threads/tyra-training-journal.575970/

Beowulf, I see you (like me) may also be just a little excited about Hester coming to the NEDA symposium this fall :winkgrin:

[riverinthewoods]

I had an ah-ha moment like this after riding with a ‘new to me’ trainer. I couldn’t believe all of the things I was missing out on before. Needless to say, I no longer train under the previous trainers and now enjoy riding much more.

[Scribbler]

I’ve watched my own coach provide this ahah! moment to many riders. But the rider needs to be ready for the revelation, otherwise they don’t see it.

I too suspect that the OP’s coach was not riding LDR but rather LDF, or low deep and forward (or trying to). That is the basic stretch position that is the starting point of correct movement in a young horse, and rehab in a horse with training-induced problems. LDF is the stretchy trot, head somewhat in front of the vertical (not poking out, of course). LDR is rolkur. Big difference in how they act on the body.

OP has had a series of posts about her horse problems previous, I’m unclear if this is the same horse that was getting hot with the teenage rider, or doing other worrying things.

Putting yourself in the hands of a teacher that knows their stuff (in any field) is the best thing ever. When I was a teen, there were no intelligent adults around in the local horse world, no instructors, and some genuine creeps (the fellow that ran the big boarding/show barn went to prison when I was in my 20s; turned out he’d been extorting sex from teenage girls for years, threatening to kill their horses; I had no idea), so I learned to just stay away from them. My high school teachers were more benign (though several married their students right after graduation??) but clearly not very bright. All this to say that I understand being in a place in your life where you don’t feel anyone can teach you anything, and your own ignorance is safer than turning over your trust to violent fools etc.

But you don’t get along in any field unless you can find teachers your trust, mentors, people to show you the things you will never figure out on your own. I didn’t really find these until I was in grad school. So when I went back to riding in middle age, I did finally know how to learn from a teacher, and how important that was.