Timid/Submissive Horse Around Other Horses -- Ideas to Build Comfort/Confidence

[MapleLeaf]

I have a big, young warmblood that is extremely sensitive around other horses. In the barn, if a horse pins its ears at him (even through stall bars), he will scoot/jump forward. If a horse is hanging its head out, he won’t walk by even if the horse is not acting overtly assertive.This young horse is nervous under-saddle in groups as well. Young horse currently is turned out with a pony and he gets along great with him.

I board at a facility that provides great care, but there are not many people who ride. Therefore, there aren’t a lot of opportunities to work through the under saddle issues. We are starting to compete, so this is a problem in the warm-up ring. Otherwise, this young horse is super sweet with a lot of personality on the ground and under saddle. I think he just needs some good experiences to help him mature “socially.”

First idea: Move him to group turnout.

There are two group turnout options at my barn, both of which are somewhat rowdy. There is one group with three geldings that he could move into, but the group does a lot of galloping during the day. They are also destroyers – halters and blankets are routinely shredded/broken. Keeping shoes on my youngster can be tricky when he is galloping all over the place and the ground gets soft (which is nearly always it seems in my area). I think if he spent some time in turnout, he might gain some confidence interacting with other horses. That is certainly the anticipated benefit. However, I am worried about the lost shoes/possible injuries with too much silliness. He’s a big mover and does not seem to always know how to keep his legs under control. With that being said, my upper level horse was turned out in that field (he was boss horse) and did fine once he established his place. But he was not a big mover and had a better sense of self-preservation than my current baby.

Second idea: Move to another barn for a month.

I have considered moving him to a busier barn just for a month to get some opportunities to school regularly with other horses. This will be a bit of a hastle as it would add significant time to my commute and finding an open spot could be tough. Will also probably have to pay half board at current barn as well. This may be better to do after trying the group turnout. But this may be the only way to get enough interaction under saddle to allow him to work through it with consistency.

Other ideas? He is one of the biggest horses at the barn but he is such a weanie around other horses. Meanwhile, he will march right up to tractors, plastic bags, etc. He travels alone to new places for clinics with no apprehension. It’s just other horses that are giving us issues. I appreciate any input or other ideas you may have.

[quietann]

Poor fellow! Honestly, the group turnout situation sounds exactly wrong for him for all kinds of reasons. He has a turnout buddy now.

I’m a believer in busier barns as a sort of “desensitization” for young horses. (Not that I have dealt with something like this, but I’ve seen benefits in others’ horses – and costs at shows for horses that are used to a very quiet environment.) I think you’d have to leave him there long enough to settle. Also need a barn with some experienced horse handlers that are willing to help. Good luck!

[Jungle_Monkey]

How is he with the other horses when you are at the clinics? Ok?

I would not change his turn out situation. I think you would traumatize him beyond belief.

My gelding took forever to get used to the warm up ring. He thought he was much bigger than he was and every other horse was going to smash into him. I just did it slowly, started with some quiet local shows, rode when it wasn’t busy, let him hang out. I also realized he was a very late bloomer mentally and ended up not really doing much showing until he was about 7-8 years old.

He wasn’t as concerned about other horses in the barn as yours sounds though.

[walkinthewalk]

Please don’t put him in a group turnout, unless you know for fact the alpha horse will guard him.

i have a Tennessee Walker just like him — when he was five, the previous owners alpha mare ran him through a fence, ripping his chest wide open and clear down one leg — he had 90 stitches inside and out.

i bought him as an 11 year old, he is now 23 and still timid. My strong alpha gelding took a shine to him and kept him safe from my bully horse.

Sadly my my alpha passed at age 27 and I have to keep this timid horse separated from the bully as the bully will run him right into a corner for no reason. They have 20+ acres of pasture but the bully horse won’t stop once he starts, so I keep them separated.

i hope those 90 stitches inside and out, my horse needed as a five year old, will give you pause about a group turnout:)

[cutter99]

I do not think you can change a horse as far as their personality and where they stand in the pecking order. I don’t think you can give them more confidence that way.

For example, I own a NCHA money earning horse, who multiple trainers have described as one of the most athletic and brave horses they have ever sat on. He will not lose a cow. Plus, he is the smartest and most athletic horse in my herd. BUT, he is the bottom of the pecking order. He chooses not to fight my alpha horse, even though he is twice as athletic and quick as what the alpha horse is. Things that scare the manure out of the alpha horse, this horse runs towards out of curiosity.

My core herd of horses has been together for 15+ years. There have been some changes over that period of time, including a different alpha horse, who was replaced by the current alpha when the first alpha died, but my bottom horse has always been my bottom horse. I have spent a lot of time in 15+ years just watching them and their interactions, and I am convinced my bottom horse is there by choice. He is content there and comfortable with his position.

Find a turn out situation that works for your horse and avoids putting his safety and well being at risk.

[MapleLeaf]

Thank you all for the thoughtful responses. There is not a strong alpha in the group of geldings. They are all fairly playful but not aggressive. I think my guy would love the playfulness (maybe too much), but I think you may be right about it being not a safe choice at this point.

The barn that I am considering moving him to for a short period would have several friends there who could help me work through the issue. The barn owner is a trainer and one of my very good friends. I know she could probably help me put together some “group lesson” sessions to acclimate my guy to more exposure in a controlled environment. It is less turnout for him, but it would be fine for a period of time.

He is fine in the clinics because they are dressage clinics with one horse in the ring at a time. We go to weekend clinics every month and he seems to love it. Jumps on and off the trailer and loves the activity. When another horse comes in to warm up, if they pass nearby, he will drop his shoulder to move a touch sideways. He gives small signs that he’s worried but he tries very hard to still stick to his job. In the warm-up ring at a show, it’s obviously more of a disaster because there are so many other horses. He was completely terrified of the upper level horses and the friesian at my last show.

I appreciate all of the advice!

[Highflyer]

Do you own your own trailer? If so I would just try to haul out more for group lessons/ hanging out at schooling shows rather than moving temporarily and changing his whole life.

[clanter]

@cutter99

For example, I own a NCHA money earning horse, who multiple trainers have described as one of the most athletic and brave horses they have ever sat on. He will not lose a cow. Plus, he is the smartest and most athletic horse in my herd. BUT, he is the bottom of the pecking order. .

Find a turn out situation that works for your horse and avoids putting his safety and well being at risk.

we had a Morgan mare who also was a very low level in the herd horse. We had to learn how to protect her as she was very smart …she won several national championships both in Class A arenas and in competitive trail slugging it out over 55 miles of trails at a time.

it was our job to make sure she was safe so she could do her job. We ended up building her her own separate barn and paddock.

even our then nine year old daughter knew how to protect her mount, she withdrew the horse from a class of a major show after being in the warm-up arena with as she put it a bunch of crazy riders

[cnd8]

I can relate to what you’re saying. My 16.1 gelding jumps and/or runs if a horse so much as pins his ears back. We have to be very careful who he shares a pasture with. Thankfully, the barn owner is willing to do so. He will not approach the roundbale if a horse looks funny at him. After a few trials, we worked out a crew of 3 others that he fits with and feels comfy. I would NOT suggest the group turnout that you describe as rowdy. That would be a recipe for ulcers.

[Mango20]

I don’t think any turnout situation will fix this. He’d just make friends with his new herdmates, and strange horses he encounters will still be scary. I think the only thing is getting him out to group lessons or shared warmup areas, and giving him time to figure it out. I’ve had a couple of horses who were scared of other horses in warmup. One of them is super confident in our herd of 4 at home. She’s second in command, not bullied by #1, and bosses around the two ponies as much as possible. Horses she didn’t know coming right at her in warmups was still pretty scary for a while. She eventually got over it.

[MapleLeaf]

Thanks, everyone. My big boy may have to stay where he is for turnout. The group of gelding is comprised of 3 thoroughbreds and they like to run and play halter tag. There’s not a clear alpha and they all get along well, so I wasn’t really even thinking about how intimidating it could be to my guy. Lots of good advice here and I appreciate it.

I do have a horse trailer and I do try to trailer to schooling shows, but there aren’t many in my area. It can be quite a hike, but that is definitely on my list of things to do more of next year as well. As for things I can do this winter, I think trying to get some time in a barn with more riders will be a good start.