Tipping forward

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Ok, i’m getting SOOOO gosh darn frustrated with myself. I’ve got a lesson on Thurs and going to ask my instructor too, but thought i might get some ideas here to talk with her about while i’m at it.

I’m fairly sure its not my saddle as i do the same thing in 3 different saddles that all have varying twists.

As another note, i had a baby in Oct. Since having him, i’ve noticed i carry my balance more up in my chest, even when i walk or stand, i lean forward some. If i focus on leaning back, i about lose all balance whatsoever.

I have a Wii Fit and love the balance board and play all the games really trying to focus on how my balance is. I also do some yoga and pillates.

But no matter how hard i try, i tip forward when i ride, holding the balance in my chest just like when i walk or stand. I would swear my pelvis is tipped and my back is overly arched. When i canter i really try to think LEAN BACK, and can check myself in the mirrors and still be tipped forward. Canter especially i feel like i’m working that upper/inner thigh/groin area to STAY STRAIGHT and not fold up. I can keep my legs down, i make sure i’m not gripping with my knee, but that area wants to scrunch like i’m sitting.

Its very hard to describe and i’m not sure that many even notice it when i ride. I do not see it in pictures, i see it in the mirror now and then when i remember to look, but its more the FEEL of being tipped, sitting a little too forward on my crotch and my center of gravity in my chest. Does that make any sense?

I start out all my rides with doing leg exercises, kick outs, stretch my thigh, bring my knee up level with the back and doing circles with my feet to break loose that darn hip joint. I can do all of this and cramp up horribly in my left thigh joint, work it out… I try doing it at a walk as well if i’m on a horse that will be ok with that (i have a couple green beans). Riding without stirrups isnt much of an option on the greenies, nor does it seem to help much with this issue on my oldie because i still tip!

What are some more things to try?

[AnotherRound]

If you strengthen the core muscles you lost when you had the baby that should pull you together. Those muscles wrap right around you to your spine, so you need to do core exercises which strengthen you lower back as well as your abdoment. Also, the core muscles are deep inside, from pelvis up to diaphram, wrapped around you like a sweater, so your work has to be hard and long. that’s what you have lost having the baby. Yoga is the best routine for core strength. If you don’t know it, start some classes. Long classes - by the time i finish the first hour, I am stronger and get more out of the last half hour than anything. At home, do plank, high plank, stomach crunches, use a balance ball in front of the TV, do a chair squat against the wall with the balance ball behind you and your arms in front. Do sit ups laying back on the ball. the Balance ball works on your core just getting it so you don’t roll off, so its a great addition to exercises. I would put Wii at the lower end of useful work, but that’s me. You need to really really work, and a Yoga class at least twice a week will do that. I di dit 2x a week and was really toned up in 6 weeks; the twisting and stretching and holding and isometric work is what does it. You also need not to stop during the workout. Have to keep going.

Good luck. Its your core. Ramp up your workout, its not working for you as is. Cheers,

AR

[kdow]

Second crunches on a balance ball as a good way to build up abs - you wouldn’t think they’d be terribly difficult, but they are harder than crunches on the floor. (If you actually want a DVD/book to follow, the New York City Ballet Workout which was popular a while ago has a fantastic core/abs section, since obviously that area is pretty important to dancers also.)

Also, this might sound odd, but how does your bra fit? Since having a baby there’s a good chance your breast size has changed (probably gotten larger) and I know LOTS of women who’ve found their posture (and thus their balance) improves significantly when they’re actually wearing a properly supportive bra. Particularly since you describe it as feeling like your balance is in your chest, it makes me wonder if that could be a factor.

[pintopiaffe]

Second the bra suggestion. Even if you’re not big, might be worth trying an Enell. I tried the ‘shoulders back’ thing and it’s not half as good as my enell!

While walking, point your toes DOWN. The opposite of everything you’ve been taught, right? It opens up the hip area more.

It’s quite possible your pelvis IS tipped. Mine’s about 35 degrees off when I avoid the chiro for too long. Can you see a Chiro? Pregnancy, then birth, then all that bending/lifting can do a number on you, and all the lunge lessons and core excersises in the world won’t help if the pelvis is out.

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Possibly bra? I got slightly larger, though not much. I’m only a B cup though, looks like the Enell is made for Ds and larger.

I just started a new exercise routine yesterday and thought i was going to die during today’s workout. I am incorporating yoga and my exercise ball along with weight lifting and walking. I love the sit ups on the ball, kills my tail bone on the floor, so i’m doing lots of those! I’m also dieting to lose some weight, i tend to carry all my weight in my upper body, so i think thats some of the issue as well.

I need to check with my insurance on Chiro coverage. I’ve often wondered about a tipped pelvis and if a Chiro could tell me anything. I do recall thinking this previous to pregnancy, though it has sure gotten worse in feel afterwords.

Thank you for the suggestions!

[kdow]

@butlerfamilyzoo;4089274

Possibly bra? I got slightly larger, though not much. I’m only a B cup though, looks like the Enell is made for Ds and larger.

Okay, I’m saying this only because I know some women who thought they were Bs and ended up wearing a COMPLETELY different bra size (smaller band, larger cup) and found it much more comfortable - if you’ve actually been properly fitted, you can disregard it.

I would actually go to a specialist bra shop if there’s one in your area (not a Victoria’s Secret type place, I mean a privately owned shop that handles special needs and a wide range of sizes - they often do a lot with mastectomy patients due to their unique needs) and have them fit you, just to be certain that you’re wearing the right size and something decently supportive for riding.

If you are actually a B cup, then you’re right than an Enell is probably overkill - but there’s a lot of nicely supportive sports bras out there for a range of sizes, so it might be worth investigating your options anyway. (Title 9 - http://www.titlenine.com/ - has a really nice range of options.)

[medical_mike]

pictures…

The more the better and from a few angles.

Regards,
Medical mike
equestrian medical researcher
www.fitfocusedforward.us

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Riding pics? If so, here are some from a couple weeks ago during a lesson:

Some i’m tipping in, some not so much, dont have a lot to pick from:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/butlerfamilyzoo/Fudge/SDC10584.jpg?t=1242171066

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/butlerfamilyzoo/Fudge/SDC10565.jpg?t=1242171119

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/butlerfamilyzoo/Fudge/SDC10610.jpg?t=1242171166

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/butlerfamilyzoo/Fudge/SDC10587.jpg?t=1242171617

And yes, i do believe my knee was a little tight here, this may have been the first part of the lesson or just a tenser moment:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/butlerfamilyzoo/Fudge/SDC10570.jpg?t=1242171261

My ride today, when i really tried to pull myself back and get the horse more up in front of me, i litterally felt like i was going to roll off her hind end backwards… In the mirrors, i was “straighter”, but felt like i had to rock back onto my butt cheeks behind seatbones. Does that make sense?

I’ve never been fitted for a bra. I can tell you the band is too tight on mine right now, but cup size fits. If i go with a bigger band, it feels like i’ve lost support. I cant stand riding in sports bras, i ride in an underwire X back bra.

[quietann]

@kdow;4089314

Okay, I’m saying this only because I know some women who thought they were Bs and ended up wearing a COMPLETELY different bra size (smaller band, larger cup) and found it much more comfortable - if you’ve actually been properly fitted, you can disregard it.

I would actually go to a specialist bra shop if there’s one in your area (not a Victoria’s Secret type place, I mean a privately owned shop that handles special needs and a wide range of sizes - they often do a lot with mastectomy patients due to their unique needs) and have them fit you, just to be certain that you’re wearing the right size and something decently supportive for riding.

I will third the bra issue. No kids here, but after years of wearing a 36C, I went back to riding and have not only lost weight, but my general muscular structure has changed. I went to Nordstrom’s to get a professional fit and they put me in a 34D and what a difference it makes! I could almost go down to a 32D. I am comfortable, I don’t slouch as much, I’m not reaching under my shirt to adjust my bra straps, and my riding has really improved.

I personally am a fan of Champion bras – you want the ones with the highest support rating. I normally wear underwire bras, but find them uncomfortable for riding. The Champion Powersleek is a no-underwire, maximum support bra. It doesn’t come in a smaller than a C cup, but it’s worth a try.

[butlerfamilyzoo]

For comparison, this was a few months before pregnancy.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/butlerfamilyzoo/KaylaGina.jpg?t=1242171951

Which much as i didnt “think” i had the same issue, the picture doesnt lie…

[Hampton_Bay]

After looking at the pictures, your saddle does appear to be an issue. What size is the seat? What model is it?

It looks like it might be 1/2" too small for your leg, and it looks like a more open seat with possibly more rise to the pommel would help you learn to sit up more. While your core muscles are important, if the saddle pushes your pelvis forward then you’re not going to be able to sit up straight.

It took me a long time to find a saddle that I could sit up straight in, especially in the canter. I figured out I had a tipped pelvis. Once I bought a saddle that was made more like I described, my riding changed overnight.

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Hampton- What saddle did you find work for you?

My saddle is a WoW, i’ve got the flap in the forward most position, and the knee block as high and forward as i can place it. I would really like a slightly smaller knee block for it. I do have a long thigh for my 5’3 frame. The seat size is a 17.5-18" (size 2 for WoW sizing).

The other saddle i ride in is a Treeless with a bigger seat but fairly straight flap, which is a little tough for my long thigh. While the seat is very open for me, it is also VERY wide in the twist and more difficult for me to ride in all around.

I’m planning on trading the treeless in for something else as soon as i’ve got more saved up. I sat in the bates innova standard block and really liked it… on the plastic horse. I could not handle the contour block to save my life. I sat in SEVERAL that day and nothing felt right except the innova standard.

The WoW i’ve had for years. Not a good angle, but this is also me in the WoW about 3yrs ago, WITH my shoulders back:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/butlerfamilyzoo/KaylaGingerSnap.jpg?t=1242176473

However, i was 30lbs lighter then. I’ve got to lose the extra. I’m working on it.

I’ll agree that i do not like the wow on the little bay pony, the Flair panels make it especially bouncy on her movement, which doesnt help my issue! I tried to sell it to purchase something else, but in the present market, it didnt sell, so i’m stuck with it and cant afford to replace it.

If i were to lose the weight, do you think this saddle would still sit me the same way, if there is less junk in the trunk so to speak. Or do you think i will forever fight with it due to the longer thigh and less open seat?

I used to have a Kieffer Lech DL Profi that sat me perfect, rode in it a good year until i sold the horse it fit, i do not ever remember feeling tipped in it. But the narrow twist rubbed me until i bled. That was when i moved on to the WoW, its very kind in that area.

I am open to suggestions though. I do not know what to sit in or try next. I’m planning a trip over to the Dover GA store one Sat in July. 3hr drive, but i’m hoping they have a good selection of saddles.

[rabicon]

I agree with everyone about the bra and core strength. Did you ever ride hunters? I have this same problem because of riding hunters and my leg and core was not as strong. I had to work on building the core and the legs (calves mostly). Also learn to relax your leg on your horse not pinch. I still have this problem in the canter but its getting much better. Now I just lean forward when I depart which isn’t good but its a work in progress. Its been a year working on the canter and I still don’t have it down. I’ve got the walk and trot finally.

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Yes, i rode hunters for 2yrs before pregnancy. I know that isnt helping things either! Big Sigh…

[Petstorejunkie]

You are collapsing on to your crotch. Think about pointing your tailbone DOWN and scooting forward in your saddle till the twist instead of the seat is supporting your pubic bone. you need to do some stretches for the ligaments at the front of the connection of the femur and hip socket. Grab your ankle while on horse back and bring it back behind your butt, as you do so, think about pointing your tailbone down and making your lower back flat. that should give you some great pull in that area.
I used to do the same dang thing you are and what REALLY helped me was riding on low incline hills alot!!! Riding the down hill supporting your horse and keeping your lower leg under you will help get that muscle memory to where you arent fighting it every stride. 1 month of down hill work every ride in your 10 minute warmup will fix that.

[Ambrey]

I am a tipper too! Here are two things that have helped me some (not cured yet :()

1. The visualization that whichever way your seatbones are pointing, that’s what direction you’re asking the horse’s hind end to go. So, if you’re tipping onto your crotch and the seatbones are pointing backward, you’re stealing impulsion. I can’t swear it’s true, but I use it anyway

2. An exercise in which you stand up in the stirrups at each gait and find the posture in which you are balanced.

[medical_mike]

Ok…

Based on the pics (which don’t look as bad as you describe) and read your description, I would suggest you have the standard weakness patterns that come with pregnancy.
So starting from 10584 going down…

Horse seems to need some spur to keep going which makes you bend your knee a bit, starting the “tipping forward” process.

I would like to see the stirrup moved back maybe an inch, and get the outside branch pointing back so the pad runs under the ball of the little toe, not outside branch touching it.

The “curve” of your back starts in the middle indicating you are using your lats to help stabilize your spine vs. shoulder complex. (Also why your shoulders look forward and upper spine slightly rounded).

Knee in line between hip and foot in the turning in picture…good!

Knee slightly inside that line on the straight ahead picuture…not so good.

I would say your glutes and internal obliques should be your focus.

Bridge progression

Learn abdominal hollowing (this is “sucking in” w/o holding your breath or rounding your low back) to get back your posture

Standing horizontal row

Check your calf strength in straight and bent knee position. YOu should be able to perform 15-20 reps in each position one leg at a time. If not, then that test becomes the exercise.

A few weeks of daily strengthening should have you stable in no time.

Regards,
Medical Mike
equestrian medical researcher
www.fitfocusedforward.us

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Thank you very much Mike, that was very helpful. I KNOW i’m much harder on myself than i should be. I know this is why my instructor probably thinks i’m nuts. Its just that the FEEL/balance for me seems soooooo off.

Mike, in your oppinion, is this saddle tipping my pelvis? If you think yes, could it be corrected with losing weight and getting stronger? Or do you feel i’ll always feel a tad tipped in it?

I really appreciate everyone’s tips, tricks, and advice here! I feel fully loaded to bombard my instructor tomorrow…

[medical_mike]

Can’t say about saddle…

That is not my area…

Cut yourself a break!!!
The physical effects of pregnancy are wide ranging and take time to “correct”.

My contention would be that while the “type of seat” can make a difference, in your case, the de-conditioning associated with pregnancy has to be fixed first.

Then it is a question of strengthening, if you have never done that before.

Then IMO we can talk about equipment.

Regards,
Medical Mike
equestrian medical researcher
www.fitfocusedforward.us

[AnotherRound]

I think you’re sitting on your pubic bone. Also known as sticking your butt out. It puts your leg behind your pelvis and there you are, tipping forward.

the change you need to make makes you feel llike you are leaning back but you arent. You need to tuck your pelvis under you so you are sitting on your seat bones. Ambrey is right, she does the same thing, and it disables you from bringing your seat down deep into the saddle. That also takes core strength, but 75 percent of getting ther involves tucking your tail in under you. Once you do, you won’t be able to tip forward. Think of making your back straight, with no curve, from the neck to the saddle. That means “visualizing” if you need that, tucking all your glutes and butt under you so it isn’t sticking out behind you, even if you have a little “extra” going on back there (we all do). You can’t pull your leg behind you easily when you are straight down into the seat like that, and you’ll be sore for a while but you’ll get the hang of the new feel, and that’s where you’re missing the boat right now with tipping.

good luck! Post new pics soon!!