Definitely—that’s why I said upthread that stuff that made me cringe didn’t get seem to get rewarded, and that’s a good thing. The collected walk I saw did not get a good score. If I saw it rewarded I would have bigger questions. Again, my entry into this part of the discussion was to simply pushback on the idea that we shouldn’t question/comment on what happens at the upper levels if we don’t ride there. This one particular instance was just an example of one of the few things I saw that made me scratch my head and it sounds like there was a good reason for what I saw if it’s the same rider.
I’m wondering if the horse is tense because it’s not prepared for what it’s been asked to do. That’s all. It’s not a dumb thing to question, even at the highest levels. Especially at the highest levels.
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Let’s not pretend that dressage isn’t the hardest equestrian sport. It is. Mistakes happen every day. I feel like if you can’t understand that then you just haven’t dived deep enough into dressage. You can’t possibly judge someone’s decades of training from one single movement in a test.
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Right. This conversation would be ridiculous if it was about how an Olympic figure skater missed a rotation in a jump, or god forbid, had a fall and therefore must not know how to skate, or has taken shortcuts. When people and/or horses are on the bleeding edge of top performance, mistakes are bound to happen. They are pushing the envelope. With horse sports it’s probably double because there are the two variables of horse and human, as opposed to single-human sports. And these riders do know their horses, and are certainly riding the tests with a strategy in mind. Part of that strategy may be to accept some tension in the walk to ensure more brilliance in some other movement, for example.
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People do question the training/foundation of other athletes at the top of their sports when they make rookie mistakes. It’s always discussed in jumping and eventing because the mistakes can be (and have been) deadly. And sure, once you’re in the arena you just have to get it done, so strategy comes into play. I just don’t like seeing horses at the upper level that are so tense they can’t walk. And it would seem the people that write the rules do have some concern about it because they weight the walk so heavily.
If your horse is so keyed up you are getting poor walk scores ~ consistently ~ that would be a sign to slow down your training wouldn’t it? Just asking for discussion sake. Not saying anything about the rider in question, which was just a casual example of something that made me go hmmm. I specifically said I wouldn’t name names without knowing more.
Now we’ve circled back to my original point 
I also think that you might’ve misunderstood or oversimplified what I said…but I might’ve said it poorly. I did not intend to say that it’s not okay to criticize if you haven’t ridden at the top. Hopefully that’s clear by now/this point in the discussion.
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I am fully aware that information can come to a person second-hand. Personally, I’d do some research before I passionately parrot it off in this instance, but YMMV.
Discussion meanders and veers 
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I hope you didn’t think I was being snarky. I totally agree doing your homework is important before posting. In this case, misinformation was posted and the poster was corrected.
When a poster who is a neophyte in dressage comes to a board like this and makes bold, inaccurate statements, there will be push-back. There are lots and lots of people here who have trained multiple horses, worked with good clinicians, and successfully competed. Of course they will bristle when someone just learning the sport becomes a critic.
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It’s a fair question but I think highly unlikely anyone is going to be consistently competitive enough to get competitive CDIW scores to qualify for the World Cup on a horse that lacks a proper training foundation. I think the most plausible explanation is that the horse is tense because (a) it’s in an intimidating and unfamiliar atmosphere, (b) the rider is feeling the pressure of representing their country at the World Cup and © the horse is a hot tamale, as are most of those competitive at the highest international level.
You don’t slow down your training because your horse gets tense at the walk in a show, or anticipates the next movement. I’m not sure what that would accomplish? I’m never going to ride a GP test or compete in a CDI-W but I’m blessed to have friends and acquaintances who do. The difference in their horses at home vs in a national show vs in the international ring can be quite striking. And for most of them, the solution seems to be more exposure in the environment which makes them tense, more trips down centreline in the international ring. For North American riders, there’s not many opportunities to experience the kind of atmosphere at Omaha because there is no big indoor show circuit.
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That makes sense.
The slowing down I suppose would give a pair more time to build trust in various environments—the point you make about there not being many opportunities to perform at big indoor shows in the US is a good one and would explain a lot about how a rider could get all the way to the WC with a mount who isn’t used to the environment.
I think the riders with the most tense looking mounts that I saw were Europeans though? I’d have to go back and look at the ones I’m thinking about but it’s like looking for a needle in a haystack now. There was a way more good stuff to see than bad IMO. And of course the winning rides were breathtaking. I loved watching it this year. Wish I had gone in person! I didn’t see anything horrible, not even close to horrible, when watching online. I have seen a photo making the rounds about a horse with a blue tongue and that was disturbing but I have no idea where or when that came from.
Anyway, I know if been busy in this thread. Bored watching my kid’s sports today! But thanks for the conversation.
It’s an interesting conversation. I think you also have to look at the goals of riders, owners, and sponsors at that level, which is to make national teams and compete at events like the World Cup, Olympics, etc. If all the stars align and you have a horse consistently scoring well that is also healthy and sound during the qualifying and competition period, are you really going to bow out because it may not perform one movement well out of the entire test? If they are consistently scoring 70-75% (or 80+ for the top ones) in spite of a walk that can get tense in the ring, then the quality of everything else must be pretty darn good.
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That photo is from years ago and has been used as example by critics of the sport of how cruel dressage training is for the horse. It was a one-time bad example of rough hands. Sad that propaganda piece is still making the rounds.
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[quote=“ProfAmEq, post:187, topic:783962”]
If your horse is so keyed up you are getting poor walk scores ~ consistently ~ that would be a sign to slow down your training wouldn’t it? [/quote]
Do you really think this horse, who qualified for the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS in WELLINGTON CDI (among the hardest company in the world), in a sport where the third rider on the team (not this rider) made the cut by LESS THAN 1% - is “consistently” getting tense walks?
Good lord. THis is a horse at the beginning of the TOP level of the sport - and you think it was so tense “it cant walk”??? There were fewer than 8 meters of a tense, somewhat lateral,walk… all the rest of the walk scores were, I am sure, fine (but I have to wonder how you know the “poor” performance you saw “wasnt rewarded”. I did not see individual movement scores, not even live (as is sometimes done, and was done for example in Herning).
I just can’t…
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I was watching some video on line with the scoring last night. Now I’m wondering if I wasn’t watching something from last year? I may have been. I don’t even know if we’re talking about the same horse!
I don’t like seeing a tense walk, that looks like it’s not tracking up, and judges don’t either. And why on earth should I like seeing it at THE WORLD CUP? My goodness. I do see how it could happen but I don’t have to like it. You really are taking this so out of context of my original comments which were not really critical at all, and were in response to someone else about something else. Relax.
Egads, people seem to be hung up on perfection. As a person who has started and trained a number of horses, actually lots of horses, I’ve seen it all. I owned a GRP who was born on the bit and was perfect in the contact from day one. I owned a few thick-necked ponies who struggled with contact and throughness and ex-racers who had to learn a whole new way of going. My current horse is extremely difficult in the mouth. I have tried nine bits before finding one he liked. He won’t tolerate a wobbly seat or bad hands.
It’s a process and a journey. I don’t understand the criticism of upper level riders who have worked so hard to get where they are today. If you are a beginner in dressage, you have no clue how to do the “perfect” shoulder in, correct changes, or a lovely half pass. They aren’t “tricks.” If the basics are incorrect, you’ll never be correct in these movements either.
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please post a link I’d love to see live scoring of the WC.
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And no. Which is why I said this wasn’t about any particular rider? I asked a question about whether that would be a sign to slow down and had a rational conversation with someone about it.
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No, not meant for you at all. I agree with everything you’ve said. I’m addressing the beginner riders who have become “expert” critics.
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Not liking a tense walk, and accusing top class riders of cutting corners in their training because they had a tense walk in their test are two very, very, different things.
It’s completely fair to watch a test and think a movement was not great. It’s not fair to make all sorts of assumptions out of riders and trainers in a ring based off one test in a massive atmosphere with insane pressure.
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