Why? They are human too, and in a sport they is insanely difficult. They may be making the same mistakes but at a WAY different level than the rest of us mere mortals. Horses are still horses and even the most accomplished pro can’t dictate their horse’s reactions and emotions, or how the horse is physically feeling on any given day.
7 Likes
So, for me, it’s that they are making the mistakes that I believe should keep people from progressing up the levels. Like, your horse needs to track up at the walk. The coefficient in the scoring is supposed to help weed this stuff out, but I have seen horses that can do beautiful piaffe look absurdly off at the walk and it leaves me scratching my head and wondering if they’re taking shortcuts to get to the upper level movements. I understand that collection can cause tension in the walk—but at the very top of the sport it pains me to see it. Maybe the horse isn’t ready for the work or maybe the rider was able to get through the lower levels without nailing the fundamentals. I’m coming at this from a place of having a smart horse with a huge heart that CAN do things I ask her in a biomechanically incorrect way but she shouldn’t. Too many years of that before she came to me caused a lot of damage and pain. So yes, disheartening to see it at the top levels, when I see it, but maybe I’m naive.
1 Like
Fair point, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to criticize things at the top of the sport to some extent, and constructively. Especially when it comes to the welfare of the animals involved. Then again, if we were really concerned with that, a majority of us wouldn’t be riding or owning horses, really. Slippery slope, that one.
The main point of my post (and I know you were just focusing on that snippet) was that EPF was just throwing a name out there and sort of dragging her through the mud a bit with claims that seemed rather unsubstantiated. Same with the claim re the warm up ring.
I’m fine with discussions, don’t get me wrong, and please don’t think that I’m saying it’s unreasonable to criticize things at the top of the sport, but I think just as much as we look at those at the top, we have to remember to look at ourselves too. It’s a process for everyone. We are all humans, and horses are all horses. Sure some are more advanced in their training, but none are machines, so we’re all going to have moments.
I think that dressage is quite technical, and it attracts people who are more technical and critical too, in some ways. It’s a bit more prone to being picked apart because there is so much to be picked apart within one movement alone. You could nitpick for days in some instances.
8 Likes
Completely agree. It is insanely technical. And the longer you do it the pickier you get. Coming from an eventing background as a young person, taking a break, coming back to the jumpers and then transitioning to just dressage has been seriously eye opening. Many many layers of the onion left to unpeel.
2 Likes
I’d be pretty surprised if any of the riders at the World Cup hadn’t mastered the fundamentals
11 Likes
I do think you’re a tad naive, and I’m not looking to be smug or whatever here, but what is the highest level you’ve ridden and competed at? Or, how long have you really been around dressage? You don’t have to answer if you don’t want to, of course.
I also think that expecting 100% perfection is just unreasonable.
It’s also entirely possible to blow your free walk in a test but nail every other movement. It happens. Even to experienced riders. That’s the nice thing, you can sort of move on and make up for your mistakes in the test that day. We are all guilty of off moments. Or your horse just has a really tense day due to a variety of reasons.
I rode a horse who struggled with the extended trot (Iberian, FWIW), so I guess he should’ve never made it past 2nd or 3rd (trying to recall where that comes into play in American levels)? That’s a fundamental! But he was so strong in other areas, and the trot did improve over time, but someone might’ve looked at that extension and said, pfft, can’t progress up the levels! So sometimes you carry your weakness for a bit while everything else is strong, and slowly it improves. Some would bang on about staying at the lowest level until that weakness improves, but others will crack on. It depends on what it is though. It doesn’t mean you’re rushing anything. Technically, every horse has their weaker points or movements that don’t come as easily.
Of course you get those who take shortcuts or use questionable methods, but they are the minority, IMO, and are often weeded out. If you saw tension in the walk, do you know if that horse always looks that way? Or look up that horse again in a year and see where they’re at. Sometimes it’s interesting to follow a horse or two and see how they progress.
8 Likes
I would be, but I’ve seen plenty of people advance in horse sports because they took shortcuts. The walk is pretty fundamental isn’t it? I remember watching one test from the WC that was just awful in that regard, but maybe they just had a bad day! It just raises questions, and it probably should. I haven’t sought out more video of that pair to compare but I would do that before naming names.
Oh I’m a complete dressage neophyte who just works really hard with what I’ve got, which includes an amazing trainer who for some reason is willing to teach me despite my newness to real dressage, a retired jumper with natural athletic talent and a body full of issues, and my brain. I definitely have much to learn.
I was just responding to the idea that it’s not okay to criticize if you haven’t ridden at the top. That’s just not true. But I prefer to question instead of criticize unless we’re talking clear abuse and harm. Questions are good. Throwing people under the bus without knowing more about them is not.
2 Likes
Bingo! That’s the right approach and leads to healthy discussion.
4 Likes
Sometimes information comes to a person second-hand. The article below describes the warm-up ring at the World Cup, which was in the vendor area. Also, Amelia Newcomb gave a lecture at the World Cup, but did not ride. There was a separate demo with a rider demonstrating upper level movements.
This conversation has veered away from the original topic, which seems to happen whenever anyone asks for advice. For the OP, I would suggest buying Janet Foy’s Dressage for the Not-So-Perfect Horse. There is good advice for developing correct contact.
4 Likes
Are you referring to the demo ride with Karen Pavicic commentating for the audience? If so did you see the whole ride or just the 5 second or so clip floating around online? Because based on your comments about Amelia (?) and the warmup, it sounds like you are simply repeating what you saw someone else say online, without checking first to see if it was correct.
9 Likes
The walk is the #1 place where tension shows up. Nine times out of 10 the walk leaving the ring is lovely.
13 Likes
Yes, and I think it’s a big clue about what is going on with the horse and/or rider when the walk is tense and lame looking.
I know if my horse’s walk gets flat or pacey, it’s because whatever we were doing before was not done with the proper relaxation and connection. The quality of the walk is probably indicative of a lot. I believe that’s why it’s weighted so heavily?
To bring this back on topic, establishing contact and connection happens first at the walk (well, everything happens first at the walk lol). It’s harder than I ever thought it could be, but once it’s “there” it’s so much easier to do everything else. OP got tons of advice on this already though.
2 Likes
I was at the WC. ONE ride had a questionable COLLECTED walk ( before a canter trans I believe)-it was tension related, relatively young horse, first time in a colosseum, first time WC for the rider as well. The rest of her walks were really nice ( which is how we know it was tension related) There is a big discussion of it within the 4beat walk thread.
Also remember one “poor” movement with a test is just that-one score among many.
8 Likes
I’d recommend you attend an L program as an auditor. You will Learn a great deal about how rides are scored.
8 Likes
Probably the same test I saw. It was pretty bad, and again I have not researched other videos so would not assume it’s an ongoing issue with the pair, and had no idea about whether they were new etc. Unfortunate moment probably but definitely makes you wonder from a spectator POV. I didn’t see the the thread you’re talking about.
I would love to be able to some day! Not there yet.
If it was an ongoing issue she wouldn’t have made it to the World Cup. She trains in Wellington. No passes given in the CDI arenas.
And it was about 8 meters of walk.
The thread is about the walk in this forum. Near the top. “Is this a 10 walk”….
10 Likes
Anyone can audit. No qualifications at all.
6 Likes
I don’t understand what it makes you wonder? Wonder whether the horse was anticipating the canter that follows the walk? Whether the horse was struggling to cope with an indoor show environment? Or are you actually wondering whether a GP rider who qualified for World Cup has the foundational skills needed to do basic dressage?
These riders know their horses. Sometimes they work to correct a tense walk in that moment. Other times they know that any such attempt will cause a blow up, affecting the scores not only for the walk but likely for the transition and next movement to follow.
13 Likes
