Tips for creating a more consistent contact?

[BigMama1]

DH and NP were both promoting this weird myth earlier this year that by the time a horse is trained to GP at the international level it should be “push button easy,” never ever spook or resist in the show ring, and that everything should be a perfect vision of balance and harmony.

What a dead giveaway that they know nothing about upper level dressage. Most of these riders are walking a tightrope between making the horse look brilliant and having it explode. There is nothing push button about it, and the artful appearance the rider is doing nothing but allowing the horse to perform underneath them is just that - an appearance. The rider is working every second to create that cadence and suspension we love to see, to maintain the balance and to keep the energy fired up without bubbling over. Often tension and excitement win. The horse gets strong and needs a momentary correction, it ducks BTV or drops its back for a moment, it opens its mouth and resists the contact. GP horses aren’t robots - far from it.

Perfection doesn’t exist in this sport. Otherwise a 10 would mean “perfect.” There is most definitely artistry in competitive dressage. But first and foremost it is a sport. And like ballet, when viewed from a distance it looks effortless and lovely. It’s only up close you can see the sweat pooling, the muscles clenched, the ankles wrapped and the toes blackened and bleeding. It takes some education about ballet to spot things wrong, like a sickled foot, or a misplaced hand, or a pirouette that the last quarter turn was cheated. But only a truly educated eye will catch the minutiae of what was done right - the perfect turnout, complete extension of a line, silent landing of a jump, etc.

Dressage is the same. It takes a little knowledge to point out something that is wrong. It takes a lot longer to develop an eye that can evaluate both the picture as a whole and the specific minute details to appreciate what is being done right.

It’s something that amazes me when I scribe for FEI judges. How do they notice how much the horse is tracking up, lifting its abs, swinging over its back, making a perfectly round circle right at the letter in a seamless transition without losing balance, while also noting the head is slightly tilted left and that the tongue is pushing up against the roof of the mouth - all in the space of a few seconds?

I think the first step in educating your eye is recognizing how much you don’t know and don’t see.

[SuzieQNutter]

@luvmyhackney

@fargaloo1

As part of a warm up, I like to go into a good medium walk with lots of shoulder fore to circles or transitions to trot – e.g., come out of a corner in shoulder fore for a few steps, straighten for a few steps, back to shoulder fore, a 10-12m circle, straighten again, trot for a few strides, back down to walk, back into shoulder fore, etc.

I did this warm up today with my iffy contact guy. Super helpful and worked like a charm. Any other warmup tricks, send them my way.

To add to the above, circle out as well as in. Figure of eights helps the horse to learn going into the outside rein as it keeps changing.

[Willesdon]

I’m old enough that I can remember dressage being a niche interest rather than the mainstream discipline it has now become in the UK. We Brits came very late to success in world class dressage. 2010 was probably the breakout year. Perhaps a statement of the obvious, but as a wider base of people have gained more understanding and skill, the quality of UK dressage has improved overall as more riders, including beginners, can see understanding and skill at work - a virtuous circle. Judges play a crucial role in dressage because an experienced judge with a good eye will reward the good training they can see. Good judges help riders develop.

[Mondo]

@eightpondfarm

This is where i find the performance art of Dressage. Sadly, that many people don’t find it worthy of attendance is maybe something worth questioning? Regardless, Art for it’s own sake has immense value.

Oh! Now I get it. I maintain you need to stop watching competitive dressage. Dressage as art, and dressage as sport are two different things. IMO, one is not better or worse than the other, but they are not the same. As I mentioned before, you clearly prefer the French school. You should continue to study it. If you want to watch what you consider to be “beautiful rides” and you don’t see that in most competitive dressage (again, that’s a function of your ignorance), then watch videos from Cadre Noir. Watch Dominique Barbier, or Jean Luc what’s-his-name. There is plenty out there that I’m sure you (a beginner) will “approve” of. You do you.

[eightpondfarm]

@Mondo

You do you.

I always do me.

[Mondo]

Right. And that’s all you got out of what I posted. You are an uneducated beginner who insists on railing against dressage sport. I’d like to see you own that.

[eightpondfarm]

i am 100% an advocate for horses and totally against harsh or even unempathic training / riding. When i see an unhappy horse it is disturbing and makes me sad. I see that in the competitive sport of dressage. a lot. Competition seems to bring out the worst in people when money and ego are involved. So yeah, with that group of people? You bet i do rail against them.

[Mondo]

That’s fair. But I don’t know what “harsh” or “unempathetic” training/riding you are referring to.

[eightpondfarm]

didn’t i mention that?
Ok, well, when i see a horse bracing against the curb rein, open mouth, a hollow back, tail( switching (not swishing)…i see that as an unlovely ride.

edit to mention continuing raspy grunting sound you hear from an overbent horse. And i wish all warmup rings everywhere would be open to scrutiny by the public and cameras.

[Mondo]

@eightpondfarm

Ok, well, when i see a horse bracing against the curb rein, open mouth, a hollow back, tail( switching (not swishing)…i see that as an unlovely ride.

As would I. Where are you seeing this horror? I’m sure not seeing what you describe in warmup rings. Please if you have some video you can share, it would be great.

[eightpondfarm]

The warm up ring at the World Cup was closed to the public.

For awful…Amelia Newfcomb’s(i think she was the one) it was her exhibition ride that was sad (for the horse). So, her demonstration ride at World Cup would be a good example of what i mean. It’s on FEI’s website as a promo for the event.
This one was what i would call sad for the horse too. a stallion, Netherlands team. Don’t know the name of rider or horse. That ride should be on the FEI live stream vids somewhere.

[SuzieQNutter]

As others have said before the head is not cranked in, the curb is being pulled if it is horizontal, and the curb is not horizontal in that photo. The poll is the highest when you consider it is probably a cresty stallion. The head is perpendicular to the ground which is where you want it. It is not behind the bit. The higher knee action could be because it is in passage.

The back could be hollowed because the rider has dropped their seat, which grounds a horse, which HAS NOTHING to do with the reins. In sitting trot always think keep the bounce.

I wish I could ride as good as that rider.

[SuzieQNutter]

I have not heard of the grunting you have heard, however a horse that snorts at every stride in canter is called highblowing and is a good thing. The sound you hear every stride in trot could be air caught in the sheath.

It is a good thing to hear a dressage horse snort several times after starting work as they are relaxed. You do not want to hear grinding teeth. I personally have never encountered a roarer horse.

[sparkygrace]

The warm-up ring at the World Cup was in the vendor area. A friend who attended posted photos of Isabell Werth riding. You can’t hide anything in a place like that.

[Mondo]

@sparkygrace

The warm-up ring at the World Cup was in the vendor area. A friend who attended posted photos of Isabell Werth riding. You can’t hide anything in a place like that.

Right. Did you find the pictures of Isabell Werth not good?

[Mondo]

If that photo is an example of awful to you, then you clearly are uninformed as to what to look for. Further to what Suzie posted, the horse’s mouth in this photo is not even open, let alone “gaping.” I want to have a civil discussion with you, but you truly do not know what you are talking about and refuse to even consider that you could be wrong. Please take my advice and don’t worry about competitive dressage. Go study the French masters, Nuno Oliveira, and other ODGs. You’ll learn much and not have to feel so bad for horses that don’t need your misplaced pity.

[sparkygrace]

They were fine! I’ve attended three previous World Cups and didn’t see the awful riding that was insinuated. Some horses, including Isabell’s had spooky moments, but there was no “bad” riding. I watched the warm-ups too.

[BigMama1]

@eightpondfarm

This one was what i would call sad for the horse too. a stallion, Netherlands team. Don’t know the name of rider or horse. That ride should be on the FEI live stream vids somewhere.

Did you see the ride, or just some screen grabs? If you love the French school of dressage, great! JLC would love to teach you everything he knows. But your comments about the World Cup sound like same stuff that gets parroted in certain sectors of the internet - often by people who have never seen the actual footage themselves and are forming their opinions based on others’ opinions. If you are interested in educating your eye and not just criticizing, there are lots of very knowledgeable people here who could help you.

[CanteringCarrot]

@eightpondfarm

The warm up ring at the World Cup was closed to the public.

For awful…Amelia Newfcomb’s(i think she was the one) it was her exhibition ride that was sad (for the horse). So, her demonstration ride at World Cup would be a good example of what i mean. It’s on FEI’s website as a promo for the event.
This one was what i would call sad for the horse too. a stallion, Netherlands team. Don’t know the name of rider or horse. That ride should be on the FEI live stream vids somewhere.

What are you on about? If you’re going to die on this hill, can you please at least know what you’re talking about or be able to substantiate your claims. Especially if you’re naming people (even if spelled incorrectly). You’ve stated that the World Cup warm up ring was closed to the public as if that’s a fact. You’ve also called Amelia Newcomb awful and called her exhibition ride (?) sad for the horse. Which ride are you even referring to? I am not aware of her doing a ride at the World Cup. I looked on FEI’s website and I’ve seen their promo for the event, but maybe not the right one? Can you post a link? If you’re going to say those things and say it’s such a good example, please provide a link.

I, personally, am not the biggest fan of a lot of what comes out of the Netherlands when it comes to dressage but that’s just a photo. A still. A nanosecond in time. It means next to nothing. You’ve got to look at the entire video/footage. Perhaps you should learn the name of the rider and the horse if you’re so passionate about it all and so you don’t misname riders.

Look, I don’t agree with everything that goes on in this sport, but there are people in their little backyard barns doing harmful things just as there are people at the upper levels of the sport. Sure, only one is in the public eye. My thing is, I’ve got to make damn sure that my house isn’t glass before I cast some stones.

It kills me when people will drag big name riders through the mud all day long yet doddle around in their backyard with ill fitting tack with horses who rarely see a dentist or farrier (never mind a decent one) and could use a proper lameness eval, and should better spend their time and money taking good riding lessons and actually educating themselves. Meanwhile, they’ll be the first ones to crow about it when someone gets a still shot of some FEI horse behind the vertical and fall for some BSer who has some woo way of teaching dressage on the interwebz (just a general example I’ve seen a handful of times).

[ProfAmEq]

@CanteringCarrot

Look, I don’t agree with everything that goes on in this sport, but there are people in their little backyard barns doing harmful things just as there are people at the upper levels of the sport. Sure, only one is in the public eye. My thing is, I’ve got to make damn sure that my house isn’t glass before I cast some stones.

I didn’t want to get into this, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to criticize things at the top of the sport—they are supposed to be better than everyone else.

This is not unique to dressage—every discipline has folks riding at the top of the sport who probably shouldn’t be. I think dressage people get wound up about this a bit more because dressage is supposed to be GOOD for the horse—improving its ability to carry a rider through increasingly difficult movements with ease. So when that ease is missing at the biggest and most visible competitions, it gets picked on. As it should.

Most of the stuff that I found cringeworthy at the World Cup, wasn’t rewarded. Overall I thought there was a ton of amazing dressage on display. But I get what eightpondfarm is trying to say, generally. It can be disheartening to see pros at the top make the same mistakes amateurs are making at home in their backyards.