Tips for creating a more consistent contact?

[SuzieQNutter]

@ProfAmEq

Of course that doesn’t always work out perfectly, but when you time rewards right (before they start to resist) it’s kind of like magic. Things just build and start to flow.

I think the best riders probably have impeccable timing. I do not! But it’s a good goal.

Waiting for the horse to resist is actually too late.

Trainers can read a horse’s mind the same way an adult can read a 5 year old child’s mind. You reward when the horse is thinking the correct thing. If you reward too late the horse is then thinking of resisting and you reward when the horse is thinking of resisting before it actually resists.

I have not seen it addressed here, however over time and observing students, there IS a difference with riders who grew up riding and those who started later in life.

There is a connection with horses that seem to be missing with the latter.

My instructor brought it up with me when seeing me groom -something happens, horse is upset, groomer knows and just waits for thinking to change and continues grooming. Just subtle and most people would not have even noticed. Horse never changed just horse thinking changed.

Both our partners in life who have been taught by us, and other students do not have this ability and we have been unable to teach it.

[ProfAmEq]

Yeah, exactly.

And interesting observation about horse kids. I took a very long hiatus from horses to have a career and family (about 20 years). I think I had really good intuition with horses when I was younger but it was very rusty when I got back into things. It’s coming back after a number of years but not without a lot of quiet contemplative time with my horses that most people struggle to make time for as adults.

Getting back in touch with that easy feeling I had with horses has been so lovely, but I’ve had to do a lot of work on myself to get back there. Hard to explain. Adults come with so much baggage.

[danhelm441]

I don’t know, again maybe this is a function of the horse I own. But there is no subtle back and forth over resistance… it’s just black-and-white, this is what we’re doing, and we’re going to keep doing it until you stop freaking out about it. Even with grooming, it’s generally a non-issue, but if it’s a hectic day and he’s dancing in the cross ties, you just have to knuckle down and be all the more workmanlike and determined about it. Any hesitation or attempt to accommodate his anxiety just makes things worse. And as much as people emphasize softness and subtlety, I don’t know what to say, that has just not been my experience with my horse, personally. Softness and subtlety make him nervous. There can be no sneaking. If you stomp around, throw the brushes around, throw the tack around, you’re golden. But if you get very quiet and slow, he gets sharp. If you are consistently giving him something to react to, he can keep it together. If you stay in a familiar routine, he’s great even if you phone it in a little. But if you wait to see what he’ll offer unprompted and things don’t follow the everyday routine, it’s a crapshoot.

[ProfAmEq]

I don’t think we’re saying different things. Doesn’t sound like you’re fighting with your horse. Sounds like you’re showing him what is expected and he’s calmer when you do that. I haven’t seen you all together but I bet, if you’re not finding yourself frustrated and with a pissed off horse, your instincts are on point.

I’m not slow and quiet with my horse. If anything I don’t give her too much time to think, and just keep a good thing going when I can. I even get comments about how quickly I tack up and groom . Because she hates it if I take my sweet time.

I think the quiet time I was referring to was really about internal quiet and focus.

[SimplyLoveHorses]

I did a couple podcasts surrounding this topic. Here are the links:

What it Really Means to Put Your Horse On the Bit by Heart Centered...

Demystifying Contact by Heart Centered Horsemanship Podcast

[KurPlexed]

@eightpondfarm

i do not see anything beautiful happening between horse and rider in most of the videos i watched

Can you share a video that attracted you to dressage? I’m curious what you feel is correct and beautiful. Current video please.

[fargaloo1]

Hey there @danhelm441… Lots of great replies already from people more knowledgeable than me. Maybe this has been mentioned, but in case…

1. Sometimes I think riders can take “drive them into contact” a bit too literally, and use a driving seat (especially on a greener horse) in a way that actually blocks the back from moving correctly. Good consistent contact can only come f the back is moving correctly and the hind legs are reaching under. Maybe try sitting in a very light seat (almost think half-seat, without actually going in a half-seat) and using only leg to create “forward”, and keep the hind legs active.

2. You mention your horse is a “re-start”. Without knowing the horse’s history, it’s possible that their only experience with bit pressure is essentially a punishment for going forward. It does take a bit of time for them to realize that going forward into contact is pleasant and desirable. On a horse like this I try really hard to never pull back (easier said than done), especially in an upward transition. I think it’s better initially to lose a bit of contact in an upward transition rather than snatching them in the mouth in any way – that can really hurt a sensitive horse’s confidence. There ain’t no shame in grabbing mane (or the breastplate, or a neck strap, etc.) – even if it’s not initially correct, you really want to get them to relax about carrying the bit.

3. I really agree with the people who say that long, straight lines are not your friend, here. You want to do lots and lots of changes of bend, direction, etc. because the horse will start to see the rein aids as information, and will seek them. You say that your horse is tricky at the walk – if you make the walk mentally challenging and interesting, they might lose some of their jiggyness. As part of a warm up, I like to go into a good medium walk with lots of shoulder fore to circles or transitions to trot – e.g., come out of a corner in shoulder fore for a few steps, straighten for a few steps, back to shoulder fore, a 10-12m circle, straighten again, trot for a few strides, back down to walk, back into shoulder fore, etc. I think the horse starts to realize that the contact helps him to understand the job.

4. Most of us mere mortals tend to have one “grabby hand” – even if we have a largely independent seat, we tend to have one hand that wants to overcorrect. My mare has a weak right hind, and especially on the left rein, if she’s not bringing it up under her, she tends to fall on her left shoulder and lose the contact on the right rein. I always have to remind myself not to try and fix it with my left hand; it’s a problem in the hind end that needs to be fixed with more push from behind.

5. Finally, it’s important to remember that they can’t have true connection without rhythm and suppleness, so that takes fitness. Contact will be inconsistent until they are fit and balanced enough, so be sure to reward the try and not be too hard on yourself or the horse if you lose it.

Again, I’m just an eventer popping in to a discussion with real dressage riders, but hope maybe some of this is helpful. Good luck!

[Mondo]

@fargaloo1

Again, I’m just an eventer popping in to a discussion with real dressage riders, but hope maybe some of this is helpful. Good luck!

Quit that fargaloo1! Your advice is spot-on and helpful. I hope OP reads your post! <3

[SuzieQNutter]

With all horses you are supposed to work quickly. They don’t like it if you go slowly.

I think the saying is quickly and quietly.

My last boy was so green with tacking. They were treating him like a greenie so he was green. Me? Threw the stirrups over the saddle etc. He was out of that phase pretty quickly.

[eightpondfarm]

i’m never tentative with my horses. I am confident enough around them that they think i should be doing what i’m doing. ie…walking behind ungentled mustangs. If i go about things in a businesslike manner, they are almost relaxed.

@ProfAmEq

Getting them to want what we want is the real trick…

Amen.

@SuzieQNutter

I have not seen it addressed here, however over time and observing students, there IS a difference with riders who grew up riding and those who started later in life.

There is a connection with horses that seem to be missing with the latter.

Makes sense to me. The best dog trainers in my business are actually horse riders first and foremost. And timing is a big part of that. I think it’s proprioception that’s the most translatable.

@blue_heron

Making a blanket statement that all of the rides you watched were ugly and disharmonious does not demonstrate your knowledge of dressage.

LOL nope. Why twist things? That is not what i said. I said (and i quote) i saw more unlovely rides than beautiful ones.

@Mondo

Maybe just don’t rail against competitive riders.

i think i’ll continue to criticize when i feel it.
When riders emulate what they think they are seeing in hope of scoring well…when their horses are braced against the curb rein and hollow backed…when competition riders do that, instead of seeking that beautiful connection with a supple and expressive horse, i’m surely gonna talk about it.

[Eclectic_Horseman]

@eightpondfarm

When riders emulate what they think they are seeing in hope of scoring well…when their horses are braced against the curb rein and hollow backed…when competition riders do that, instead of seeking that beautiful connection with a supple and expressive horse, i’m surely gonna talk about it.

But they are NOT rewarded in their scores for the flaws that you see. They ARE seeking that beautiful connection. Seeking is not always achieving, particularly in a show environment. Unless you are a mind reader, you don’t know what is really happening.

[eightpondfarm]

Well, if they’re in a show they are going to be scored, for sure. And somebody is going to be the winner regardless of a beautiful ride or not. And someones may witness that win and that outline, that silhouette, of horse/rider may just stick in their mind as what a winner looks like.

[Eclectic_Horseman]

Have you seen a dressage score sheet? Double coefficient for harmony. You must get qualifying scores to be eligible for some awards.

Respectfully, I don’t think that you know what you are talking about.

[eightpondfarm]

I can understand how you would think the way you do, i really can. But that is not how i look at things.

A person can watch a ballet and without being an aficionado, can be moved by a particular dancer over another. A person can hear an opera and be enthralled by a brilliant, expressive vocal performance that outshines others on stage.

When art is involved, a person does not need to be an artist to appreciate.

This is where i find the performance art of Dressage. Sadly, that many people don’t find it worthy of attendance is maybe something worth questioning? Regardless, Art for it’s own sake has immense value.

[blue_heron]

Can you share a lovely ride you saw?

[eightpondfarm]

Somebody posted it up above in this thread as an example of loveliness and i agreed with them. Don’t remember who it was that posted it.

[Eclectic_Horseman]

So no one should show until they are flawless? That’s not possible.

[eightpondfarm]

hmmmm… no, not what i said or even not what i intimated. I was watching the World Cup videos. One would expect a certain higher level of performance thansomeone working their way up the ladder i think.

[sparkygrace]

@eightpondfarm

A person can watch a ballet and without being an aficionado, can be moved by a particular dancer over another. A person can hear an opera and be enthralled by a brilliant, expressive vocal performance that outshines others on stage.

Yet it takes a trained eye or ear to judge the technical parts of the performances. Would you be equally critical of an opera singer who hit a slighly flat note? Would you go online and claim that opera singer is not worthy of being onstage?

Dressage horses like those at the World Cup are not every day plugs. They can be hot and super-sensitive; tension can creep in during a perfomance in an event like the World Cup. The horses aren’t robots. Mistakes happen; blow-ups sometimes happen. There may be instances where a rider needs to take more contact on the curb. It’s not a sin.

Take a look sometime at a score sheet for the freestyle. It has separate technical and artistic scores. Dressage is a sport and not just an art. I don’t think you realize how hard it is to ride a horse trained to Grand Prix. I’ve only sat on a few and it took every bit of core strength I had to sit the trot. I admire the riders who go out in front of a huge audience in an electric atmosphere and perform.

[luvmyhackney]

@fargaloo1

As part of a warm up, I like to go into a good medium walk with lots of shoulder fore to circles or transitions to trot – e.g., come out of a corner in shoulder fore for a few steps, straighten for a few steps, back to shoulder fore, a 10-12m circle, straighten again, trot for a few strides, back down to walk, back into shoulder fore, etc.

I did this warm up today with my iffy contact guy. Super helpful and worked like a charm. Any other warmup tricks, send them my way.