Yeah, see what I wrote above.
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Every time I go to a show or watch one streamed online I see something I don’t like. Some I frown on more than others, but to pretend that mistakes never happen with horses is silly. I would love to believe that there is some great horse whisperer out there that can develop a horse without a moment of ugliness in the training, but I haven’t met one yet. Horses are emotional and thinking creatures. They have moments of argument and miscommunication.
Making a blanket statement that all of the rides you watched were ugly and disharmonious does not demonstrate your knowledge of dressage. Being able to see that something lacks harmony is not a great skill. Being able to distinguish between ugly, an unfortunate mistake, and a developing horse is a skill.
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Thank you for this comment. This argument is nothing new. I have a number of acquaintances who got into dressage later in life, worked with one trainer, and then became expert critics. As someone mentioned earlier, many became enamored with “classical” dresssage or the French method. The criticism of the German style of training followed.
None of these people I know ever rode past intro or training level and their horses never physically developed. The riders never learned correct contact or rode their horses through the back.Some horses were ruined. It was hard to watch and they weren’t open to the idea that their horses were not correct.
When you watch upper level competitions, note the age of the horses competing. Many are in their mid-late teens. They wouldn’t stay sound if the training was incorrect.
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As several have said before, it takes a long time to develop an educated eye.
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I see this sooooo often too. Seems to be a widespread issue.
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Poor instruction also contributes to this syndrome. For example, in the Amelia Newcomb video posted upthread she actually has to address the issue of the reins crossing the neck. That is a cardinal sin that should be cured once the novice rider can go solo. Many advanced-level competitors lack the most basic of basics; we’ve all seen it at clinics (of any discipline).
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Crossing the rein was something I had to address myself early on. I’ve fixed it, but it was a hard habit to break. We all have our faults. The advanced level riders I see lacking the basics are those who bought upper level horses, yet did not have good instruction from training level up.
Many lower-level instructors get stuck on doing things one way and that includes proper contact. A good trainer or rider has collected bag full of tools along their journey. They can reach into the bag and pull out a group of tools that work for each individual horse and rider. It’s not one size fits all.
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I would think crossing the reins over the neck would be related to keeping the reins too long. If your reins are short enough, it’s hard to imagine wanting to cross the withers? And if they’re too long, you have to resort to that kind of exaggerated movement just to get contact.
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Probably. I think the problem is the tendency to think you will get bend or flexion by crossing the rein rather than using more leg. Also, many riders think a short rein is the same as a tight rein. It’s not, just ask Charlotte.
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One stumbling block I have repeatedly come up against in training is that it doesn’t always work the way you think it “should.” You can read and write, watch videos, draw diagrams, and theorize your whole life, but sometimes those intuitive techniques you internalize just don’t bear out in practice. More often than not, in my experience.
Maybe it’s just my particular horse and situation, maybe everyone encounters this to some extent, but I’ve had to let go of my intuition a lot in favor of what actually works. It makes me realize how broad the anthropomorphic rabbit hole really is. People are quick to say it’s anthropomorphic to ascribe human motivations to horse behaviors—like, “being a brat,” or “testing the rider.” But fewer people acknowledge how anthropomorphic certain classical or liberty training approaches can be. Things like, idk, what counts as a reward, or that having the freedom to choose is universally desirable. It’s sort of like applying “the golden rule” to horsemanship, treat others how you would like to be treated. And yet how is that not anthropomorphic? Maybe horses have no interest in being treated the way we want to be treated. For example, what makes us so certain that horses really want a choice, or that they would prioritize the freedom to choose (which can be confusing) over the comfort of clarity (which can involve coercion)? I struggle enormously with using coercive training methods, because intuitively, I would want to give my horse choices. And yet, that’s not what has actually helped my horse. When my horse is anxious, choices make everything so much worse.
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Well, there are many rein aids including the Indirect Rein. It has a place. Amelia mostly deals with lower level riders. The Indirect Rein has its place. I recommend reading this: https://horsesport.com/magazine/training/five-rein-aids-how-use-them/
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So, the short rein thing. This has been incredibly hard for me to change with my riding but I think it finally clicked that I can have a short rein with bent elbows that isn’t unforgiving, but it requires that I move my body, namely my shoulders, much more than I was accustomed to.
Like OP, my walk was crap for a while until I figured this out. My horse is a “hot” type who I used to just canter to warm up. Didn’t help anything really. Just reinforced a lot of tension. She was always happy to walk on the buckle though, so if that’s your horse, maybe start there. Sit on your butt like a cowboy and really sway—horse will like it and relax and then you can work on picking up the contact and shortening the frame.
I almost have to put my own shoulder forward at the same time/side as my horse and then it starts to feel right, as long as I am also sitting back on my seat bones, and not bracing my legs. Lower back needs to be really mobile too. I thought it might look ridiculous but it looks normal on video!
It helped to first practice this at the walk with long reins, with my elbows bent and hands closed, eventually shortening and pushing horse out to the bit in a stretchy frame, then gradually shortening up to a working frame. Counting the four beats of the walk helps me with timing. Then when I have what I want, asking horse to chew down to a longer frame again as a reward, then repeating at longer intervals.
At the trot, same thing, think about moving your shoulders with your horse while keeping elbows bent and reins short—reward horse with a stretchy circle when you feel them take your hands, and then gradually shorten again and repeat. You can do this on a spiraling circle to regulate tempo if your horse rushes like mine will if I start to brace.
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Yes indeed, very good point. BTW I was taught the six rein aids.
YES!!!
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You are really on to something here. Horses are herd animals. They NEED a leader. That’s not to say they crave cruelty, far from it. But they need to have it explained to them how to be ridden. Carrying a rider is certainly not a choice a horse would make if they had the opportunity. If you, a predatory carnivore, jumps onto the horse’s back, the horse, a prey animal, should be terrified. But they aren’t because we’ve domesticated them. That doesn’t mean that they don’t still operate on an instinctual level - they do. Even in the case of stallions, you must take a leadership role in the training. Leader, teacher, not tormentor, or adversary. Leaving a horse to make its own choices will create an anxious, unhappy horse.
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Indirect rein doesn’t actually cross over, does it? It just touches the neck.
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I think maybe reframing this as putting a horse in a position to get to the right answer vs forcing it is helpful. I know my horse LOVES to get things right. It becomes a game to her. She’s always seeking the correct answer and when I don’t show her what it is, she takes over and gets frustrated when I tell her it was wrong. So it’s not so much taking her choices away, but making it clear what the right one is?
ETA: because let’s face it, they always have a choice to kill us if they want to. You can’t take their choices away really. Getting them to want what we want is the real trick…
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It could be semantics, but I would say these are the same thing. You can’t tell a horse what the right answer is without making it obvious that every other answer is wrong. So in other words, there’s no choice if there’s only one right answer.
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“Ideally, the hand should not cross the mane while applying this aid, though slight crossing is sometimes unavoidable depending on rein length and hand height, among other things;”
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I don’t know… I don’t need to make the wrong answers obvious unless she actually tries them (and really hope not to push her to try certain things because I like living). The goal for me is to be really clear about reinforcing the right stuff and I get fewer and fewer random guesses if I am really systematic about what I ask—like there has to be something she understands already and then I can ask for something related. Baby steps approach.
Like walking relaxed on the buckle. We know how to do that: so if teaching contact, I might pick up the contact and if she stays relaxed, let go before she tenses. Then i do it again, but keep longer and reward before I get resistance. No wrong answers given but more understanding built? Of course that doesn’t always work out perfectly, but when you time rewards right (before they start to resist) it’s kind of like magic. Things just build and start to flow.
I think the best riders probably have impeccable timing. I do not! But it’s a good goal.
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