Tips for improving my arm/elbow & hand position (core)

[beowulf]

Any advice for improving the bend in my elbow and lifting my reins? I tend to ride with very ‘forgiving’ and lax arms, and have picked up the habit of riding with my elbows straighter than I’d like them, in part due to my track record of riding greenbies/OTTBs. My instructor really got after me last week, and I really want to improve this habit before I see her again next week. This pic & this pic give you a general idea of what I do (lax elbows, lean forwards, defensive posturing), though sometimes there is a little less bend in my elbows than I’d like. I definitely notice a huge improvement in my core stability when my arm and elbow are parallel with my spine - so I am looking for more ways to engage myself to better my riding. When I drop my elbows and add bend, my spine straightens out and I really feel my core rooted down into the saddle - the habit I have of throwing my arms away in turn makes me hunch my back, perch in the saddle, and lean forwards.

I’m doing the whip behind the back thing daily on my “schooled” horse (AKA the horse who won’t ditch me :lol: ), but on the green TB I am just reminding myself to relax my shoulders and ‘drop’ my elbows. I’m getting more used to the whip behind the back but the first few rides I felt as ineffective a rider as a soggy noodle. I’m going to do it (whip-behind-back) for a month, I think. Any other advice for how to rectify this bad habit I’ve picked up?

[merrygoround]

Just raise your hands a couple of inches. This will allow your elbows to come back closer to your sides. Just remember to keep the elbows flexible, they are major joints. Allow them to go forward and back, without your hands dropping.

Also try rolling your shoulders more open and back.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Change how you hold the reins…so hold them more like a driving rein. So they come in over the top of your hand instead of the bottom. Age old “trick”…it changes the feel and that lets you focus on your connection more ad break the habit. You can not carry a stick like this but a lot of people will use this exercise both jumping and on the flat.

Another good one is to take a short jumping bat or stick and put in across your hands and under your thumbs. This gets you to carry your hands better and stops you from using your hands as much and in an irregular manner (you can’t drop one hand lower than the other).

[talkofthetown]

Omg, you’re me! :lol: I have the exact same habit, also from riding OTTB’s and greenies. For me, it’s just a constant reminder to fix it. I know where my hands and arms should be, it just doesn’t feel right so I forget and drop the position. I literally do a quick checklist every couple of minutes:

-Where are my eyes? Am I looking where I want to go? (I tend to watch the horse’s head a lot, so my head goes down)

• How is my posture? Shoulders open? Back nice and straight and tall?

-Are my heels down? Ankles relaxed?

And I started to add: PICK UP YOUR HANDS! Or "“turn the car key” or “check your fingernails” or “shorten the reins” or whatever analogy clicks for you. But if I constantly do that inventory on my position, my arms are so much better.

[KayBee]

Esp for dressage, work on strengthening your rhomboids and traps. When I engage those muscles, I find it feels awkward to have my arms straight.

These are muscles that I found it hard to “feel” until I randomly took a kayaking lesson. Once I could feel them, I realized that I didn’t have the strength to keep them “passively” engaged.

Strengthening them has helped my posture, and my dressage.

(It’s not that your core isn’t important; it’s important too.)

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=KayBee;8140877]
Esp for dressage, work on strengthening your rhomboids and traps. When I engage those muscles, I find it feels awkward to have my arms straight.

These are muscles that I found it hard to “feel” until I randomly took a kayaking lesson. Once I could feel them, I realized that I didn’t have the strength to keep them “passively” engaged.

Strengthening them has helped my posture, and my dressage.

(It’s not that your core isn’t important; it’s important too.)[/QUOTE]

Any exercises for strengthening those specifically?

BTW, thanks all for advice/insights.

I am going to request the local paparazzi video me (aka my riding companion) so I can throw my position under the bus and get the sharp-tongued critique of COTH masses :lol:

I like the ‘inventory’ thing - I do that too - every few steps "okay, I fixed this - am I still straight? Are my elbows still bent? Is my posture correct?’ - what I have a problem with now is that I have compensated my position to assist the horses - BAD me, I know - and Horse#1 has THOUGHT he trained my body and does not like this big change and does not see that it is for the better for all parties involved… I can feel the correct position and it does feel alien to me but it also feels very secure - but then Horse#1 says “hey…you’re getting after yourself instead of me? FIELD DAY!” :lol:

[Clair2014]

I’d like to come at this from a little different point of view and I don’t know if this will help or not, but when I make a correction to a student’s position I don’t just tell them to change what they’re doing, I try to get to the bottom of why the position flaw developed in the first place, especially when it happens to an experienced rider. Position problems can develop for a lot of reasons, but one is that the rider feels the horse doing something and is trying to correct it, albeit incorrectly.

A lot of times if I can help the rider learn how to fix what they’re feeling correctly their position problems start to go away. An example would be a rider riding a lazy horse with their heels up all the time. I can tell them to put their heels down for hours on end but unless I help them learn to get the horse more in front of the leg they won’t be able to successfully make the change. I know that’s a pretty simplistic example but I’ve had tremendous success with this approach and it can happen in much more complicated situations too.

I would recommend looking beyond the position flaw to what you’re feeling while your riding and what you could be trying to “fix” by riding that way. If you can get to the bottom of what you’re feeling and learn how to improve the effectiveness of your aids you may be able to permanently get rid of this problem. Perhaps you’re trying to keep him supple in the bridle, or paying attention, or you’re trying to stay light on his back. Maybe there is a more effective way to do those things? Just because a horse is green doesn’t mean you need to lean forward and hold your arms straight with your hands down. As a matter of fact, when you’re on a green horse is when a good position matters most.

All that aside, the other posters suggestions for straight position fixes are great. Good luck!!

[Pally]

Just want to add to that checklist, make sure your reins are short enough! If you are habitually riding with them just a little long (OTTBs and greenies, lol), then short enough is probably a place that feels “too short”. But trying to maintain contact with longish reins is one very common reasons for straight arms with turned down hands.

[SuzieQNutter]

Change $500.00 into $5.00 notes. Put 1 between each arm and your side and post to me each one you drop.

Think sit on your butt and lift your hands.

You are looking at the horse’s head. So looking at the horizon will make a difference, this will also make a difference with squaring your shoulders instead of hunching and leaning forward.

To look at the horizon you have to soften your vision and see the horizon and the horse’s head at the same time, using soft eyes. At the moment you are using hard eyes to look at the horses head.

Shoulders back and show off your boobs. The only time ever you will hear me say that!

You said you are riding with a forgiving rein? It is a sin to give your outside rein. When you prove your inside rein go up and forward.

Ride with a dressage whip in both hands. Place them over your thighs on both sides. Keep the whips in the same spot on your thigh as you ride.

Get your mum or someone to watch and every single time the second your hands lower to the wither they have to say lift.

To start with you won’t feel it before they say it. By the time they have said it 10, 000 times you should feel it before they say it. When you are able to lift before they say it…you move on to the next problem

[tbchick84]

I like that $5 thing. I also am guilty of cantering with my arms independent of my upper body. I read a post where the rider said your upper arms should never lose contact with your torso, the elbow remains the supple hinge joint, and the lower arm does the following to the horse’s mouth. When I tried it, I realized it makes your entire core a one piece “following” mechanism. It’s the equivalent of “putting your horse together” only you’re doing it to yourself.

[SuzieQNutter]

LOL tb chic84. I am happy for you to send me any dropped $5.00 notes as well

[tbchick84]

You’ll get rich off of me! I have no core to speak of and can’t keep myself together for more than a few strides!

[SuzieQNutter]

Noone has a lot of core strength unless they do exercises to get them.

Fact - a male who does not do core exercises actually has less core strength than most females.

I do a video by Jennifer Kries. It is pilates, yoga and ballet combined called Total Body toning. The whole routine is done lying on a foam mat (1cm thick is best) in front of the TV. The whole body is correct. She exercises your lungs, your fingertips, your toes. Your arms and your legs, your neck. You name it!

If it is one thing I am not - it is flexible. Not only have I never touched my toes but sitting with your legs out in front of you, I could only reach just past my knees. Yes that bad.

I did the whole hour and was terrible at it. Nobody could have been worse.

But I did it the next day.

The next day I was in total disbelief when I could touch my toes. I even stood up and could touch my toes when standing and I used to do an aeribics Video every day with their stretching afterwards and had never gotten close.

Day 5 my seat was better in the saddle. Day 7 my lower leg was stronger and staying still. Day 9 I sat up with square shoulders.

Fast forward and I kept doing the DVD but I tragically lost both horses and stopped riding. Years past.

Hubby wanted a lesson so I rode with him as I didn’t want to sit and watch.

The Instructor commented that they didn’t know I could ride like that and I was put in an advanced group lesson that evening.

I rode and lasted to the 40 minute mark in mostly rising trot and canter before I flagged.

I did not have one ache or pain from riding. Except I rode in jeans with a belt as I had no jodhpurs and I took skin off both inside legs and off my tummy from the belt and they really hurt for days.

I still have the mat and the DVD. I really should start doing it again.

[Karosel]

Work on stretching out your major and minor pectoral muscles. It’s nearly impossible to roll your shoulders back without a lot of tension when these muscles are tight. If you’re like 90% of people they are. Do door jam stretches or against a wall. My personal favourite is lying vertically on a foam roller holding my arms out straight or as a flag man and letting gravity gently do the work of stretching out my pecs.

[KayBee]

@beowulf;8140897

Any exercises for strengthening those specifically?

Kayaking. By which I mean real-life kayaking involving a boat, water, and a paddle. Not the COTH version of kayaking

I use the “fly” machine at the gym, but there are weight exercises, too, with handheld barbells. The rowing machine is good overall workout that will also engage those muscles. If you don’t have access to a rowing machine you can do it with those stretchy bands. I also googled “rhomboids traps exercises” and found the following (and tons more):

Some examples:

http://livehealthy.chron.com/strengthening-trapezius-rhomboids-dorsi-weights-3132.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RB1sku8fx8

Good luck!

[arlosmine]

Do the " driving rein" thing.
It will interrupt your habitual pattern of subtly pulling down. Then, seek to get the feeling that the rein connection is felt into the BACK of your elbow. As if the reins run along your forearm and wrap around your elbow.
One you get the connection into your elbow, remember to follow with your elbow so you don’t block the horse.

You may also find that this enables you to bring your pelvis more forward to towards the pommel. Currently, your slightly pressed down hands will prevent that from happening. Slightly too low hands will also will impact your upper body by tending to roll your shoulders down/fwd.

[gardenie]

Body position flaws can often be addressed outside the saddle. I personally made great strides going to a muscular integration specialist (rolfer). http://www.rolf.org/about/faq Once I did the ten series, I suddenly didn’t have those same flaws. Had to relearn things too.

[pony_grandma]

Re: your hands, arm, elbows try this to get some feel. Hold two small coffee cups, one in each hand. Raise your hands to ‘carry’ them. Hands in line with your elbows and elbows at your side. Now pull back with one shoulder (not your elbow) and feel the turn all the way down into your hip. Keep your body back in line with that shoulder movement and feel the wgt drop down into your seat - that’s the leverage that you want to sit deep and the alignment that transfers your aids to the horse. At least this is one way that I was able to demonstrate to kids their body position and how to use it. I’d also stand at the horse’s side and ask them to hand me one of the cups and when they did I’d say see you can separate your hand movement.

One other tip - for tight tense hands - small raw eggs :winkgrin:

[KayBee]

[QUOTE=pony grandma;8147125]
Re: your hands, arm, elbows try this to get some feel. Hold two small coffee cups, one in each hand. Raise your hands to ‘carry’ them. Hands in line with your elbows and elbows at your side. Now pull back with one shoulder (not your elbow) and feel the turn all the way down into your hip. Keep your body back in line with that shoulder movement and feel the wgt drop down into your seat - that’s the leverage that you want to sit deep and the alignment that transfers your aids to the horse. At least this is one way that I was able to demonstrate to kids their body position and how to use it. I’d also stand at the horse’s side and ask them to hand me one of the cups and when they did I’d say see you can separate your hand movement.

One other tip - for tight tense hands - small raw eggs :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

Good tips! Thanks!!!