Yup - if it’s a lesson horse, you need to ask before you come weapons a’blazin’. Those “lazy” ones are worth their weight in gold in a lesson string.
A horse is a mirror that shows all your pimples and blackheads!!! Bless them.
The horse will tell the instructor when you are ready to move up.
A new rider on Ken in my last lesson. He would trot for 10m and stop and line up on the CL often. Bless him.
The same horse that has won the last 3 Dressage Days.
One of the ‘ponies’ that is used for beginners and doesn’t move forward with real beginners was competed at Prix St George in Dressage Competitions by the Manager.
You need to be super firm when you first get on–because if you start out nice, the horse will not believe you when you ask for more. Also, picking up a bit more contact and pushing the horse into the bit will help with these types…and don’t drop contact going into the canter!
[QUOTE=findeight;8289830]
This made me remember one of my trainers when I first started in Hunt Seat after 20+ years in Western where it’s all about sitting chilly. And coming off an 8 year break from riding.
I could not get my regular assigned lesson horse to go faster then a turtle crossing the road on a hot day. He was exhausting, to put it mildly. I got frustrated with it and asked the trainer if he needed spurs and a stick. Trainer says “Yes, he does. But you don’t get them, nobody smacks and sticks one of my horses because they aren’t strong or smart enough to get the job done without weapons”.
Unusual way to put it but she was right. That horse got me stronger quicker then swinging a stick would have. And I earned the right to wear spurs, even got to carry a dressage whip to make things easier…funny thing, by the time I earned that, I rarely needed it.[/QUOTE]
This reminds me of one of my favorite stories from the ranch. DH’s old show horse became a trail horse and was being ridden in the arena by a plucky little girl who DH knew pretty well. She screams out to DH that she needs a whip to get the horse moving. DH bet her some icecream that he could get on her with no spurs or whip and get her loping without even touching her with his heels. The kid totally makes the bet.
Tall, lanky, 6’5 DH gets on the older 15 hand Appaloosa mare (he only weighed like 195 lbs so a short ride wasn’t a big deal). With his heels not far from her knees he kisses to her and gives his seat aids and she lopes off into a perfect WP show lope from where she was standing. Kid was gobsmacked and we got a good chuckle.
Yep.
I’ve found that most “lazy” lesson horses wake up and move out perfectly well the minute somebody half-way competent gets on board.
Solution? Improve your own riding first, and quit bitching about the poor, long-suffering horse.
Jeez.
[QUOTE=MtnDrmz;8289686]
That’s what lazy horses do; They make you ride. Sleepy horses are great teachers not only because they wont try to kill you, but also because they teach you how to actually use your aides and have to do something about what is going on underneath you.
:[/QUOTE]
And that’s exactly why I prefer them, and especially love the guy I usually get to ride! When I get him to do something, it feels like a success! 
[QUOTE=findeight;8289830]
I could not get my regular assigned lesson horse to go faster then a turtle crossing the road on a hot day. He was exhausting, to put it mildly. I got frustrated with it and asked the trainer if he needed spurs and a stick. Trainer says “Yes, he does. But you don’t get them, nobody smacks and sticks one of my horses because they aren’t strong or smart enough to get the job done without weapons”.
.[/QUOTE]
This is how my trainer thinks! She said she would let me use my stick if I used it after I used my leg properly. which I do not!, but she gets furious with me going to my stick because she wants me to use my leg. she is an excellent trainer and I am learning so much with her even though at times it’s not the most comfortable situation to be in! LOL my horse is a slug and it has been very frustrating learning how to ride him properly. he has totally exposed my weakness and ineffectiveness of my leg!
I own a Mr Fallsasleep horse. He is definitely a very smart horse. He will move off when ridden correctly, can be quite lovely actually. But he prefers to move at a snails pace and I have to get after him like many have advised with my stick to make sure when I put my leg on it means move. He has totally exposed all my weaknesses as a rider. But I actually have learned more from him than I ever have from riding any other horse.
I can get him to go on the flat. My problem is with trot fences and small gymnastics. I have him moving off his hind end nicely and as soon as we start going thru the poles and crossrails he can just fizzle with energy. after he does this I get after him and then he rushes on front end and may canter the exercise when he is supposed to trot. if he gets himself into trouble and trips over something, he immediately wakes up and puts beautiful jumping efforts in. this lasts for awhile until he becomes nonchalant about the gymnastic again. any advice for keeping the energy thru the trotting phase without rushing him into the canter or on his front end?
TSWJB - Ride the trot, not the jump. Everyone does it when they are starting our, and often for longer with a forgiving school is. As soon as you enter the gymnastic you stop riding the trot and start riding the jump(s). Ride the trot poles as if there isn’t a jump. You will still be able to ride the jump when you get there (you’re doing it now when you suddenly get on his case mid poles, right? 
).
Hopefully you aren’t also guilty of the paired “sin” which is failing to ride the canter after the jump. We get distract by that one little high canter stride and are all “Gonna jump, gonna jump! Jump! Wahoo! We jumped!” :lol: Yes, I committed these “sins” too! Still do on occasion! :yes:
I disagree with a lot of these posters. Complete dead head schoolies are necessary when you are learning to be comfortable on top of a horse, but I strongly believe that riding one of them without a lunge line does you no good when working on your seat and hands. Particularly if you are not allowed to use a crop to reinforce your leg.
Of course the horse goes fine for the instructor-she’s a professional. Telling a beginner lesson student that the horse would go forward if she were a better rider is a complete waste of time. And a bit mean. Your beginner student knows that she’s not very good. That’s why she’s come to you. It’s your job to make her better. And putting someone on a horse that won’t move for them for weeks at a time without intervening isn’t going to help them get better. It’s no more helpful than telling them “Don’t suck so much”.
In an ideal world, the instructor is in charge of pace until the rider has an independent seat and hands.
Sometimes I think we do everything the opposite way here in the US. Where are the lines of school ponies going around in a circle at a working gait with the riders circling their hands in the air, going around the world, etc. etc. dropping stirrups, etc. and doing all of the exercises that help you develop an independent seat and hands? I don’t see them. Instead I see beginner riders kicking and kicking and flailing and getting frustrated while their instructors yell at them for being unable to get the horse moving. It seems like an unnecessarily long road to me.
I have a 70x80 ring that all of my kids start in until they can confidently post without relying on their hands…and early lessons include plenty of time on the lunge sans reins. Unfortunately, with me their in the center “assisting” with forward, they still have a learning curve once out in the big ring and ms. sleepsalot whose way to smart for her own good knows she can get away with more.
Lazy schoolies show me a ton of holes in my riding. My trainer loves to torture me by putting me on a Mr. Sleepsalot. I do get a crop to reinforce my leg, but I don’t get spurs. My horse is the exact opposite of a Sleepsalot. My horse is a light seat, don’t use a ton of leg type. Sleepsalot is a leg, leg, and more leg.
Sleepsalot is honest. He lets me know when I drop him to the base or expect him to carry me through a line, but he always jumps and never stops on me. This is the same horse that some of her students can get on and really get going around a jumper course. He also wins hunter classes. He is invaluable to her program, and he teaches me A LOT when I ride him. Trainer doesn’t put me on him because she thinks I’m a bad rider. She puts me on him to make me a better rider. These types of horses show your holes. My trainer doesn’t want me to ride Sleepsalot with spurs, because she wants me to use my seat and leg which are weaker parts of my riding.
A lesson on Sleepsalot makes me exhausted. Then I am appreciative for my sensitive jumping bean.
[QUOTE=NCRider;8291210]
I disagree with a lot of these posters. Complete dead head schoolies are necessary when you are learning to be comfortable on top of a horse, but I strongly believe that riding one of them without a lunge line does you no good when working on your seat and hands. Particularly if you are not allowed to use a crop to reinforce your leg.
Of course the horse goes fine for the instructor-she’s a professional. Telling a beginner lesson student that the horse would go forward if she were a better rider is a complete waste of time. And a bit mean. Your beginner student knows that she’s not very good. That’s why she’s come to you. It’s your job to make her better. And putting someone on a horse that won’t move for them for weeks at a time without intervening isn’t going to help them get better. It’s no more helpful than telling them “Don’t suck so much”.
In an ideal world, the instructor is in charge of pace until the rider has an independent seat and hands.
Sometimes I think we do everything the opposite way here in the US. Where are the lines of school ponies going around in a circle at a working gait with the riders circling their hands in the air, going around the world, etc. etc. dropping stirrups, etc. and doing all of the exercises that help you develop an independent seat and hands? I don’t see them. Instead I see beginner riders kicking and kicking and flailing and getting frustrated while their instructors yell at them for being unable to get the horse moving. It seems like an unnecessarily long road to me.[/QUOTE]
Trying to think how to put this…there aren’t enough school horses and their costs are skyrocketing. Non owning students (and parents) pigeonhole all barn time and riding into a 90 min slot once or twice a week. Many are unwilling or unable to pay for lunge line lessons, which are priced as privates or pay for more saddle time and some don’t have the time to put in or ability to get to the barn often enough to progress. Very few barn rats anymore.
It is a long road under those circumstances but those are the circumstances that barns clients can afford in both time and money. Better schoolies cost more to obtain and can command higher rates via various part lease programs. Many barns have dropped their school programs entirely, too expensive to run with fewer clients then ever taking the next step into leasing or ownership. Barns used to run school programs to feed clients into that next stage as they advanced.
Maybe somebody else can express this better but the harsh reality is at some point you do need more saddle time and a better horse to advance as a rider and that will cost more, probably require at least part leasing or purchasing one.
At home I always start hubby off on the lunge.
In a riding school situation you have to have Mr Sleepalots for the new riders. Because if you have Mr Reactsalots and he reacts to them doing something wrong you will end up with students afraid of their horse.
I know exactly where you’re coming from. I had this same problem when I was first starting out.
I was up on a 23 year old Quarter Horse that had been run into the ground for years and he was just bored with the typical work we put him through in all the lessons.
I find it helpful to spend a day with the said “Fallasleep” If you have access to a roundpen, try doing some Natural Horsemanship with him. I personally used the Join- up method, then hoped up bareback and worked around the roundpen. Lots of transitions, specifically in your problem area (canter). Change directions a lot and throw a bunch of different figures at him. The more you keep him on his toes, the more excited he’ll get to be doing something interesting with his life for once lol.
As for you, I’d suggest doing a couple of exercises. Sounds like you may need to strengthen your lower leg. My trainer pointed this out to me when I was having issues and it helped a lot! This combined with the roundpen training solved our problems and I was able to get my big slow poke to actually start cantering and hand-galloping straight out of a halt without an issue.
Good luck! And remember, the more often you ride different types of horses, the better of a rider you will become.
Oh, and a little addition that i missed before. this kind of work won’t really change how the horse reacts with other riders. If you’re consistent with how you ride him, in keeping things interesting, he will specifically perk up for you but be his normal self with everyone else.
Thats why sometimes we come across other riders that can do amazing things with some of the laziest horses and we can’t see how in the world they did it
Absolutely! These Fallasleep/Sleepsalot horse are lazy, and smart in that they will figure out the minimum amount of effort a given rider will accept, and put out precisely that (with the odd check to see if a little less is okay today). Once the precise level is found, these horses won’t even bother arguing because they know who is going to make them do it anyway, so why put out the extra effort of resisting?
I owned one of these. Loved him dearly. He wouldn’t put out the effort for arguing with me, but he would dial in to new rider in minutes. :lol:
Well, second ride at potential new barn and I was given a more forward horse, so they probably don’t think I’m completely incompetent. I’m kind of torn, since I do need the work (and horse they had me on the first time was not the worst), but I am also in the situation where lesson time and money is limited. New barn seems to switch up horses and riders very frequently, so maybe I’ll be able to do the occasional ride on Sleepy without being stuck with her forever.
Side note: I do own a horse, but that contributes to the problem. He’s 28 and arthritic so I’m spending a lot of my potential riding time on low-and-slow rides (bareback on the trail half the time) to keep him from getting stiffer–but he’s still super willing, not to mention that after 18 years together he can basically read my mind. So he always knows what I want and is always happy to do the simple things I’m asking (w/t/c both leads), the exact opposite of the difficult schoolie.
It does seem simple, but you guys helped me figure out that I really need to get ahead of the curve on making the sleepy horse work right away. I’m sometimes pretty lazy myself, so I’ve been letting them get away with too much “stretch and amble forward” for the first few minutes. I can see how it’s more important to really nail the very first steps with these guys, before it becomes an endurance contest (I work at a desk for eight hours, they ignore beginners every day–you do the math).
(Although–I don’t put up with lazy on the ground. We’re going in the direction I’m facing, at a reasonable pace, with your head in front of me. But a lot of these horses definitely are smart and can tell the instant that I’m not all in–probably a worst lesson ever was on a super smart horse when a troupe of girl scouts were watching. I’d ridden him a few times before with reasonable results, but he figured out that the crop-of-doom wasn’t happening this lesson and just stopped dead for about five minutes. Girl scouts left, crop was applied, he moved forward like nothing had ever happened.)
Although now I’m also having flashbacks to my youth: No crops, no kicking. If you’d been working really hard and using your legs consistently then the instructor might pick up a twig off the ground for you, but that was a red letter day and you felt like you were headed for Olympic greatness. (We also had no stirrups, literally no stirrups on the saddles, and most classes had no jumping–maybe some day, in a decade or two, when you’ve learned how to ride properly… Now try that canter depart again.) I’m sure my legs were much stronger back then, but I also remember being pretty miserable for entire lessons.
This is an opportunity to improve your own effectiveness. Riding horses with varied personalities will do that for you.
You do seem to understand that the challenges you are facing have to do with your current abilities. I think you need to speak to your trainer about lessons that focus on the development and effectiveness of your aids. And you should have a trainer that understands that aids are more than leg and a one-handed whack with a whip (not to say that’s not warranted every once in a while - but I would not consider that a standard “go to” aid).
One of the greatest things my coach has ever said to me: “aids should be a whisper - not a scream”. It’s a balance of clear and precise aids, along with quick and efficient corrections so the horse understands what is expected of him. This can be tough with a schoolie who has been nagged half to death. But when you learn it will vastly improve your abilities to tackle varied rides.
By being a more effective rider you are doing him a great service (and he to you!)
Your best bet is to definitely stay on top of the lazy horses and not get lazy yourself. Keep the working gaits for the entire ride.
I rode my lazy horse yesterday and made the mistake of using her as a couch while helping another rider for about 15 min… Yeah asking her to start working after that was a bit of a battle!
