Tips for the roach back horse

[haybaby15]

As the title says, I’m looking for some good, detailed tips and exercises for helping a roach backed horse lift his back and use his hind end.
I was recently faced with the sad news that the dressage trainer that I have been riding horses for for the last 2 years while I am in college had taken a job opportunity in a different state. While I was looking for options for me to continue riding (there’s really no reputable trainers aside from the one I was riding for in the area), one if my professors approached me and told me about a hardly started 5 year old warmblood cross that she had sitting. Now she’s planning to board him at a spot that I picked out so that i can ride him. This is super exciting for me because I have always worked for trainers, and so never had to organize a training schedule on my own. I feel like I’m going to learn alot from this guy and I’m excited to apply everything that I have been taught and get to see something progress with only my guidence. He has a mild roach back and a steep shoulder angle though, and I have read that a roach back in particular could make it harder for him to lift his back and step under because his back is already “lifted”, although not necessarily engaged. So I’m looking for some insight on what difficulties I may experience and ideas and tips to help him overcome them when I feel that he is ready to start doing that sort of weightlifting (since I don’t really know what he knows or how he rides just yet. He’s being brought down on the 11th of January).

Here’s a picture of him that I snapped when she brought him to the college to be shod. It’s not a good conformation photo, and not flattering to the poor guy at all, but hopefully it can give you guys a feel!
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/12392066_1097451243599129_4303717991149140153_n.jpg?oh=536265a27a6e00d5f91bcaaa227f158c&oe=57119EB1

[CFFarm]

It doesn’t look that bad in the photo because he seems to have a bit of a goose rump which makes the “roach” look more pronounced. I’ve know several"roach backed horses and the only real problem they had was good saddle fit. None was an upper level horse so their amount of collection wasn’t effected too much. I would do a lot of long, stretching work as I would with any young horse and suggest the owner go with massage and chiro treatment. Take your time and you will probably learn more from this guy than from a lot of other horses. Keep us posted:)

http://www.dressagetrainingonline.com/training-problems-training-horses-with-difficult-temperament-and-conformational-defects-by-uwe-spenlen.html

[keysfins]

You can teach belly lifts and butt tucks as a start, and see how much he can mobilize his back and SI. The belly lifts engage the abdominal muscles, and strengthening them will probably be key for him. As will stretching over the top line (while using his hind end, not just dumping on the forehand). He probably does not have good tone in belly OR back muscles as you start.

I would also have a chiropractor/vet assess him.

I think your next challenge might be finding a saddle that fits. Is he as short backed as he looks in the photo, or is that just a bad angle?

[netg]

If his back is basically locked in a “lifted” position, you need to work on movement so it can lower as well. A back constantly lifted can be every bit as rigid as one which is constantly dropped.

I would do the same as I would for any other out of shape horse I am starting working on dressage, and spend little time on a perfectly straight line, instead using very large figures and arcs to help get lateral bend, which in turn helps loosen the back so it can swing. It’s only in those softer, swinging moments which may take a few months to get that I start adding straight lines and seeing if I can add some impulsion while maintaining the relaxation.

You may be surprised and find that the roach isn’t there so much with work, especially since a roach back is just an indication of what spinous processes are doing, and not what the spine itself is doing.

[Helicon]

Roach back horses are not as supple in the back. They are prone to kissing spines. Ride them neck-down, back-up to keep vertebrae spaced apart, so they can develop as much swing as possible. Make bending part of the work but give time to develop a range of motion.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Helicon;8446790]
Roach back horses are not as supple in the back. They are prone to kissing spines. Ride them neck-down, back-up to keep vertebrae spaced apart, so they can develop as much swing as possible. Make bending part of the work but give time to develop a range of motion.[/QUOTE]

Not arguing, but curious - can you expand where you heard the correlation?

[HappyTalk]

I just rode my short backed, slightly roached horse like any other horse. He had to learn to stretch forward and down. He was/ is a very powerful mover. I still ride him at age 27. Never had an issue with his back.

[haybaby15]

Thank you for all these awesome responses, I am very excited to get him started, but I also know that “Rome wasn’t built in a day, but was destroyed in one.” I look forward to the experience. I would love to have him see a chiropractor, I am a believer that horses, especially those in serious work, should see a chiropractor on a regular basis like human athletes. His owner IS a vet, which is a big bonus, BUT she is careful with her money and I think she’d be hesitant to spend the money on this horse unless problems arise. She’s admitted that she only allows herself to splurge like that on her one nice eventing horse, because it’s the most justifiable for her and her circumstances. This one wouldn’t be in work if I wasn’t riding him for free; she had a hard time getting her husband to just agree to the $275/mo boarding fee so that I could have an indoor to ride him at during winter! Please, keep the great information coming!

[haybaby15]

[QUOTE=netg;8444635]
If his back is basically locked in a “lifted” position, you need to work on movement so it can lower as well. A back constantly lifted can be every bit as rigid as one which is constantly dropped.

I would do the same as I would for any other out of shape horse I am starting working on dressage, and spend little time on a perfectly straight line, instead using very large figures and arcs to help get lateral bend, which in turn helps loosen the back so it can swing. It’s only in those softer, swinging moments which may take a few months to get that I start adding straight lines and seeing if I can add some impulsion while maintaining the relaxation.

You may be surprised and find that the roach isn’t there so much with work, especially since a roach back is just an indication of what spinous processes are doing, and not what the spine itself is doing.[/QUOTE]

Could you maybe give some examples of work that lowers their back? And when would I know that this kind of work is nessicary? Im a bit confused on the bennefits of this, so I’d love to know more. ??I only have knowledge of how to lift their back, the only way that I know to lower it is to allow them to go around like they naturally want to, which is with their head up.

[haybaby15]

A few of you also mentioned saddle fit. I have a 17" close contact saddle with a wide channel and a medium wide tree, i purchased it just this year and has fit everything i have ridden, except for one chunky monkey, terrific. It has a pretty flat tree, as the vast majority of horses that I typically have ridden have nice flat backs. I have a shimmable half pad to help me out with most of my fitting issues. My saddle will not be too narrow for him, I think it will fit nicely width wise. Obviously you can’t fit saddles without seeing the saddle ON the horse, but what saddle fit issues were you predicting? My prediction was that I might have to make adjustments for his withers…

[CFFarm]

Worse case the channel will sit directly on the spine or touch it in spots. Possible rubbing in areas. It may sit too low in the front.

Nothing really about roach backs here but good, basic saddle fitting technique:

https://schleese.com/fit-tips/

[beowulf]

I am not entirely convinced roach back horses are more susceptible to KS - I just haven’t had that experience to substantiate that - however it is nice to see someone considering a horse’s physical build and looking for ways to help them. It’s all about evaluating the individual.

We have one with a roach back on the farm now (his back looks like a banana - I’d say it’s much more than a mild roach) and he was quite literally born supple and very loose - almost too loose. Very wonderful mover and if he was not owned by a member of the family who does not ride he would be chewing up the competition locally … I rode him for about a year and never noticed any KS symptoms or issues due to roach back… He did have weak stifles from a racing career. What I did notice really helped him was pole work - and lots of it. He was seen by a chiro and she thought he would benefit from daily pole exercise and he really did… But other than that, he was ridden like any other horse.

I wouldn’t necessarily ride them differently just because they have a roach back - I’d definitely give more consideration to their saddle and fitting, but other than that I’d give them the same quality work regime as any other horse.