Tips on re-training a reining horse

[Carrie94]

So. I’m currently retraining my reining horse for dressage. He’s an athletic cutting/reining bred QH but hasn’t really ‘taken’ to that job. I bought him as an early three year old (he was started at 2) and have trained him (in reining) since.

Being western trained, he does western things. Sliding stops, spins, rollbacks, backing. I’ve also trained him to do leg yields, half passes, pirouettes (he’ll do haunches in/out, shoulder in/out, transitions, etc as per his reining training - it just looks a little different than your dressage type training). He’s a pretty nice, big mover for a QH (not your average QH movement). He’s never been restricted/held back as WP horses sometimes are, so his gaits are natural and forward (too forward, sometimes!).

So he has a really well-rounded western education. The only thing is, now that he is being trained for dressage, he needs to stretch into rein contact. With his reining training, he was taught to give to the slightest rein pressure, which is super and perfect for reining, but not so suitable for dressage.

He’s a sensitive horse and very forward, as I mentioned above. So I need some tips on getting him to stretch into the bit instead of tuck his nose (as he has been trained to do, and not wrong). He’s always been ridden in a snaffle, never a shank bit. I know a lot of people use leg yields to get the horse to reach forward, but Flynn’s been trained to soften his face and leave slack in the reins regardless of exercise.

Any advice for me? I don’t have any dressage trainers living nearby, if that was the next question. I live up north and we’re very secluded. Any general advice, tips, experiences are hugely appreciated!

As a side note - I am sick and tired of all of the negative connotations of a western trained horse. A western trained horse is trained according to its purpose (job) just like a dressage horse is trained to its purpose. Just please don’t say his hocks must be damaged from the sliding stops or he must be developing joint problems since he was started as a two year old. Please don’t say that he was trained “wrong.” He was trained perfectly for reining. Now he has a new job, and all we need to do is adjust that training.

Thank you!

[ThreeFigs]

I’ve seen Reining trained horses go on to become AWESOME dressage horses, so pay no mind to the nay-sayers. They don’t know. The basics, for the most part, are excellent. Yes, you’ll have to re-educate some things – the contact being a big one, but it’s not imposssible by any means. Use the softest, gentlest bit you can find. Might be a double-jointed snaffle, might be a Mullen snaffle. Just be sure it’s a bit he enjoys wearing. And then it’s “take your time” time.

It’ll be all rear-to-front riding (I’m pretty sure the Reiners know this, because a horse on his forehand can’t slide), and it will be forward into the bit. Reiners are more forward than WP’s, so you’re already on the right road. Over time, acclimate him to the slightly firmer feel dressage riders use – but that said, it’s not that much firmer. But he must go rear to front and eventually he’ll get the idea that he’ won’t get “bumped” if he leans on the bit a little. Rear to front, forward, in good rhythm and balance. Much like Reining, but we do things slower in Dressage (ie. rollback = half-pirouette, and so forth).

Your horse will adapt over time (and probably not too long, either!). I think it’s easier to make a dressage horse out of a Reiner than the other way around.

[LilyandBaron]

Concur with above - I think the bit is key here. If his mouth conformation allows, a kind of thick bit some might fear he’d lean on could help you in the early training. I’d also really try to make the bit different from his reining bit to help him know the rules have changed. Read what you can on the importance of the outside rein for contact - but push, don’t pull, to get the connection. A good exercise is haunches out on a circle. Good luck!

[kelo]

Reining horses can make great dressage horses! I have one myself (reining, reined cow horse) who is doing very well in dressage. And I have seen many horses at those shows who would make great dressage horses, were they asked to.

Get a big, fat, thick, soft snaffle with a plain mouth (maybe one joint or one with a lozenge, depending on his preference). Then just keep asking him to move forward into it, concentrate on your posting rhythm, and allow him time to figure it out. Sometimes if you move your hand straight out into the inside of the circle (like a longe line) that can help encourage him to go down and out a little. Then just reward him for attempts to stretch into it. The hardest part for us was me learning how to take the contact…I didnt know how to accept it and how to hold my hands/arms properly, which messed him up. And I also struggled with really understanding the drive from behind and suppleness. Many of the movements are similar and require the same athleticism and good mind, but in my experience, dressage demands much more range of movement and more power than I was used to, especially as I moved up the levels. It was really eye opening.

I have to say an instructor is pretty important. If you cant find one nearby, there are always video lessons or clinics or ride-a-test options to help you on your journey.

There are many folks who cant tell a roping horse from a cutter, but still think “western” is evil. Just ignore em. There are also many wonderful horsepeople who love a great horse, regardless of wrapper. I have met so many wonderful dressage riders who welcome me and my horse just as we are…and there are a few of us around who ‘speak’ both languages How is your horse bred?

[swgarasu]

I had a former cutting/reining QH, but I rode english so I ended up showing him as a lower level eventer, hunter, and dressage horse. He really seemed to like it- the hardest thing for me was getting used to him spinning and shooting off for the first year or two. I’d feel his hindquarters sink and be like “Oh, here we go…”. I don’t remember having tons of trouble getting him to accept the bit and contact- as others said, I used a really mild snaffle, and doing the circles with opening hand seemed to help. I spent time just riding with some contact and making sure not to hit him in mouth at all (soft, following hand) and actually as he would get tired he was more willing to lean on the bit, so I guess that helped. Without see-sawing, you can sort of move the bit a little and see if he starts mouthing it, and stroke and praise if he will hold contact with you even for a little while. I think just give it time, as you ride him more like a dressage horse I think he will go more like one- that steady working trot seems to sort of lull a lot of horses into reaching for the bit without really realizing it.

[pony_grandma]

Well for god’s sake don’t take your leg off the horse when you go down the center line! :lol:

My oldest daughter rode our reiner in a dressage schooling show. She rode the test double handed in a snaffle, finished, halt salute, then took up one handed and cantered back around the ring and came back down the centerline and did a sliding stop. Then did a spin around to leave the ring. Got eliminated but it was fun.

[buck22]

I’ve never retrained a reining horse, but am currently riding a western broke horse that doesn’t have a clue about contact and is in the process of learning. A mullen mouth helped initially to start the ball rolling on the concept of contact.

What also is helping us is a clicker-training type method. While I don’t use a clicker myself, I do reward instantly for the slightest try, using the same phrase and inflection each time followed by a tidbit - so the same idea.

The horse I’m working with now is very food motivated so this has really been a huge help - he’s grasped that he’s being taught a new concept and is spending more time seeking the right answer, rather than getting sulky or confused or sucking back to his comfort zone.

Another thing to consider is perhaps starting the idea of contact in a halter rather than a bit, even if its ground work in the chance a halter doesn’t offer enough control for his forwardness. My driving horse had bitting issues when I first got him due to lack of dental attention by the prior owner. He started his education on self carriage in a rope halter over cavaletti. When we went to long lining, we stayed in the halter for a while and learned very quickly to accept my “contact” over the bridge of his nose. He actually became quite steady in a short period of time, enjoying the instant, subtle communication contact offers.

When he was finally able to comfortably carry a bit, he had a tendency to curl. So he went in double reins for a while, a set on the halter, and a set on the bit, and I gradually migrated from my aids on the halter to the aids on the bit. He now works equally well in both.

Good luck!

[Carrie94]

Thanks for all of your helpful replies! I will definitely be putting them to use!

kelo - he’s bred all-around western performance but he’s gotten most of the cutting traits - the sensitivity and intelligence. You can see his pedigree here - http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/pines+war+doc

He’s a really nice, athletic mover and already knows self-carriage from his reining training. I thought a good place to start the retraining process is on the lunge line, teaching him to stretch down and swing through his back more. He has nice hock action and lopes really well, but doesn’t step underneath himself as much as I want at the trot.

I do ride him in a halter occasionally and he’s really sensitive to that, too. But I’m sure with some practice he’ll get it - he’s a little too smart and just a bit too much of an overachiever.

Does anyone have tips as far as lunging goes? I’d like to teach him to drop his poll and stretch but I don’t want to use mechanical devices to do it if I don’t have to. He’s been lunged quite a bit and is really relaxed about it, but he won’t drop his head on his own. I’ve been watching some videos on YouTube by Arttoride and have enjoyed learning about that! But if anyone has some ideas on encouraging him to stretch, I would really appreciate it!

Thanks again!

[Carrie94]

Darn it, I had a reply all written out and it disappeared. I’ll cut it short this time.

kelo - his breeding can be viewed here http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/pines+war+doc. All around western performance but he kept most of the cutting traits - mainly the sensitivity and intelligence!

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies! What I’m working on now with him is getting him to stretch down when lunging and swing through his back more. Like a lot of reiners, he lopes really well but is a bit lacking in the trot. He has nice hock action, I’m just trying to get him to reach forward with that hind leg more. Any tips on lunging are appreciated! He’s been lunged a lot but won’t stretch down by himself, and I’d like to avoid using mechanical devices if I can. I’ve been learning a lot from Arttoride’s YouTube channel, so while that’s definitely helped, I’m eager to know more.

Thanks again!