Have you tried a chain over his nose,all horses on the track are taken everywhere with one,they know to respect it.
I had an OTTB like this and handwalking was the best thing to get him used to the trails,I put the chain on his nose,an extra long lead,gloves on me and took him walking.
He was 16.3 a big powerful guy but he respected that chain.
[QUOTE=AlexS;7745495]
Imagine the most extreme thing that could happen while we are out, and about. [/QUOTE]
And therein lies your problem I think - you are focusing on what could go wrong more than you are focusing on what could go right, and he will sense that totally.
I still think hand walking him on the trails (just the two of you), a little further each time, will be good for both of you. He will be more confident in you as a leader, he will get to see the sights and sounds of the trail and as long as you stay calm and confident he will start to relax more.
Use the lead shank as Jump Pony suggested if control is an issue.
I know! You are right! When my friend rode him, she was relaxed, but wouldn’t go more than a walk, which is smart. She’s not near as invested in him as I am. I am thinking through everything, I can only afford one horse, I need him to work out, and I really love the silly beast. I know I am taking each ride to the long thought out process, and I need to stop. Sometimes it’s easier to ride a crazy horse, than it is to control your own head.
Horses don’t 
[IMG]http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i334/jula4me/jetinnorris_zps1fba72a5.jpg)
What did you friend think led to the two big bucks? That’s not generally just a nervous thing. Is there anyone who can pony him out on the trails? If he’s an OTTB, he should pony well.
…, but say a light plane crashed in the corn field right next to us - at that point, I’d rather be on the horse than off it. In a serious freak out, a horse will rip out of my hands faster than it will unseat me.
Ha, ha, you truly are a pro in devising catastrophic scenarios! I am not bad myself, but my feeble imagination limits me to black bears, mountain lions, and mountain bikers. Oh, and large, horse-flesh-eating farm machinery.
As others pointed out, he does not know, what you are afraid of (him getting lost), just that you are afraid, so, the part of the problem might be, that he is looking for the source.
Sometimes it’s easier to ride a crazy horse, than it is to control your own head.
If we can get successful at controlling our own heads, there will hardly be any crazy horses to ride. Easier said than done, I know all too well.
I think, apart from all the great horse training advice you got in this thread, you might try to include into your training plan some mental exercises, especially grounding ones, for yourself to help you to ride/walk your horse with a “clear” and positive mind.
Then, when you ride or walk him out, apply the same meter to yourself as you would do to him, meaning, once you start feeling your anxiety rising and catastrophic thoughts filling your head, stop advancing. Take time to recuperate, ground yourself and start over. Just like with him, a few steps at a time are a victory.
If you practice like that, it will help you to control your mind and also see, how your mind influences Lucas.
If your horse is sensitive, it should help tremendously.
Our horse is sensitive and I had to practice to overcome (at least to some extent) my natural make-up.
Sometimes, I “try” his sensitivity by just imagining, for instance, a black bear, while riding through thick woods, then letting the anxiety within me rise, and I can immediately feel him getting tense. So, I change my mind, as if to say “oh, no, no bears, just kidding.” He relaxes right away.
I wish you all the success in your endeavor. You seem so keen, perceptive, and willing to tackle this from many different angles, that I think, in time, there is a great chance, you will have a wonderful trail partner.
[QUOTE=emilia;7750994]
Ha, ha, you truly are a pro in devising catastrophic scenarios! I am not bad myself, but my feeble imagination limits me to black bears, mountain lions, and mountain bikers. Oh, and large, horse-flesh-eating farm machinery.
As others pointed out, he does not know, what you are afraid of (him getting lost), just that you are afraid, so, the part of the problem might be, that he is looking for the source.
If we can get successful at controlling our own heads, there will hardly be any crazy horses to ride. Easier said than done, I know all too well.
I think, apart from all the great horse training advice you got in this thread, you might try to include into your training plan some mental exercises, especially grounding ones, for yourself to help you to ride/walk your horse with a “clear” and positive mind.
Then, when you ride or walk him out, apply the same meter to yourself as you would do to him, meaning, once you start feeling your anxiety rising and catastrophic thoughts filling your head, stop advancing. Take time to recuperate, ground yourself and start over. Just like with him, a few steps at a time are a victory.
If you practice like that, it will help you to control your mind and also see, how your mind influences Lucas.
If your horse is sensitive, it should help tremendously.
Our horse is sensitive and I had to practice to overcome (at least to some extent) my natural make-up.
Sometimes, I “try” his sensitivity by just imagining, for instance, a black bear, while riding through thick woods, then letting the anxiety within me rise, and I can immediately feel him getting tense. So, I change my mind, as if to say “oh, no, no bears, just kidding.” He relaxes right away.
I wish you all the success in your endeavor. You seem so keen, perceptive, and willing to tackle this from many different angles, that I think, in time, there is a great chance, you will have a wonderful trail partner.[/QUOTE]
emilia, I’ve noticed the same thing with Mac! If I for some reason start thinking of bears or mountain lions, Mac will get tense and looky. If I change my thoughts, he changes his way of being. I’ve actually even noticed this with acupuncture. Last time I had it I noticed that at the same time I was having a negative thought, the needles in my forehead started burning. Changed my thoughts and the pain went away.
I find singing helps, or even just talking to Mac while riding. My verse of choice is “I belong to you, you belong to me, you’re my sweetheaarrrrttttt”
We’ve seen a bear, we always see mountain bikers, we see strollers, joggers, dog walkers, loose dogs, sheep, even llamas with their backpacks on! Sometimes we hear gunshot. Oh, and coyotes, deer, the squirrels are going crazy right now fighting over nuts, and ducks taking flight out of an irrigation canal. How I approach it makes all the difference.
The one time I lost my reins on the trail (we were walking, I tripped and stumbled) and he spooked and scooted a bit, he stopped and waited for me. He had no one else out there and there’s safety in numbers!
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7751065]
I find singing helps, or even just talking to Mac while riding. My verse of choice is “I belong to you, you belong to me, you’re my sweetheaarrrrttttt”[/QUOTE]
Oh, songs! Such a great way to soothe oneself and those around us.
The only thing to remember with songs is to first start singing, when times are good, like during grooming or when the ride goes exceptionally well- little bit like, when birds sing, because the day is beautiful, their belly full, and life is good in general. Then, when there is an association with pleasant moments, one can use it to soothe in troubled times.
One does not want to start singing therapy in times of distress, because it can become the sign to get spooky and afraid.
I have no gift for singing and also possess a very peculiar voice (like everyone in the room turns their head, when I open my mouth), so I never sing publicly, but I love to sing and our horses are the only ones, who seem to enjoy it (or cannot/won’t object, ha, ha).
Folk songs and lullabies work best with our horses. There is a line in “Bushes and Briars” I use, when our horse is really worried. It is “Sometimes I am uneasy and troubled in my mind…” It rarely fails. Such a lovely, melancholic song.
An update, I’ve taken it right back to the beginning - me. I am riding my friends horses who are all bomb proof. I am learning the trails, on amazing horses, that just go when you point them. Am cantering up the hills without an issue.
Lucas was on senior feed at my old barn, he’s a 9 yr old OTTB. I am already seeing him calming down just in the stall, he’s coming back to being himself. I also have a massage therapist coming out to him tomorrow (well today, but I am a night owl) to make sure there’s no issues from his freak out about the western saddle when he nailed the $400 fan (geez thanks for that dude).
It’s really nice to ride my friends horses, I am on the buckle with them, and not worried at all, and it’s just FUN! Which it hasn’t been for a bit now.
Next step, we are riding around the pasture with other horses being ridden. Then he’s fenced in and secure, then I am hand walking the trail. It’s annoying to me that this is happening this time of year, so he will likely have a lot of time off over winter and I will have to start over somewhat, but I need to let go of things I can’t control.
I really appreciate your heartfelt advice. I was a bit scared to ask for advise on COTH as you can be a tough crowd, but you told me what I needed to hear, and then gave advise, and I am thankful for that.
As to those who ride with bears and lions - heck to the no. I can’t even imagine. I am scared of loose dogs and deer. There’s just no way, you have serious cojones.
Katyb, thanks that’s helpful. We were on the trail this weekend, and a friend wasn’t having a good ride on her pony. We swapped horses on the trail. At one point no one was holding her horse as she was mounting, and I grabbed for him, as he was walking off and she’s a newer rider. I need to adjust my thinking as the horse won’t leave the herd. I know that, I am just not thinking it, as we are all out in the open. That’s my issue - not the horses. I am projecting.
" . . . In a serious freak out, a horse will rip out of my hands faster than it will unseat me. "
See, I have a problem right there. I hear that you have not established ground work/manners with your horse. A horse might leap away for a couple of strides if frightened momentarily, but if you have a decent long lead rope, he won’t get away. If you are planning on trail riding, you need to be sure that you can hold him. It is entirely possible that you might have to dismount, and need him to stay with you, perhaps while you help a friend - who knows what?
So, my suggestion would be to do an introductory Parelli (or similar) course - the one where you play the 7 games. Not by looking at videos, but with an actual instructor. Even though you have been riding for years, it would act as a refresher course, and establish understanding between you and your horse. Plus, it’s fun.
Now: your horse is an idiot out on the trail. He’s an ex-racehorse! But hey. This is new country, new barn, new horses. OTTB’s need time to settle down. They benefit from long boring walks on a loose rein where they can look at all the strange stuff about them. They may like to stop and stare for a bit, look around. When I take a new horse out we wander, and stop, and stare, and I don’t interfere. I watch for the horse to indicate that he’s ready to move on - just the tiniest nod of the head, and then I ask to go forward. It works. If he wants to do the big detour, we do it, without comment. Usually the next time we pass without deviating.
I have found that it’s quite a good idea to do a ‘there and back’ ride, for then the horse can see everything from the other way round. I also, if the horse is getting wound up and I don’t want to deal with it, turn around and go home. But we’ll go out the next day over the same route. Another REALLY good, calming thing to do, is to let your horse stop and graze. A horse will only eat happily if it feels safe, and sitting on a grazing horse is quite a nice way to spend a few minutes relaxing on a summer afternoon!
Enjoy your riding!
I am glad to hear that you are able to get out and enjoy the trails on another horse. Hopefully Lucas will realize just how fun they are sooner than later.
[QUOTE=AlexS;7752650]
Lucas was on senior feed at my old barn, he’s a 9 yr old OTTB. [/QUOTE]
Since you have said this several times I just want to say that there is nothing wrong with feeding senior feed in general. It is a good way to put weight on a hard keeper. Lots of people use it, on all ages of horse. A horse does not have to be aged to benefit from senior feed.
Now clearly, it sounds like Lucas does not agree with senior feed and it is great that you figured that out.
Great update - good for you! :yes: The wonders of nature abound on the trails and they are meant to be enjoyed!
You don’t necessarily have to stop working on these issues with him over the winter. You should be able to walk down the road or the edge of the corn field almost any time of year.
One thing you could do is, after you’ve been working with him in the pasture, start going with him just for a short walk down the road to the beginning of the trail or down one edge of the cornfield. Low key, no expectations, everybody’s calm. Don’t be more than a 5 minute walk away from the barn.
Get to where you want to turn around and just stop for a while. (You might choose a different spot to do this every time, just so he doesn’t get the idea that one place is as far as he’ll ever be asked to go). Get off. Feed him a couple of treats. Do a little groundwork there: back up, turn on the forehand, etc. Maybe even take a small brush with you (if he likes being brushed) and just go over him lightly. Then get back on (or handwalk him) and go back to the barn. Talk to him the whole way–cheerful, up-beat, “What a great horse!” Ignore any jigging.
Do this every time you ride (when you’re not going out on a trailride). It should become routine very quickly.
You’ve received a lot of great advice from other posters on the thread, and I wish you the best of luck.
denny emerson just offered some terrific posts on facebook about riders who over mount themselves… sounds just your situation . A nervous rider with skills lacking to confidenly steer a horse through the maze of trail obstacles can actually do a lot more damage than good. And it may not show right away, but eventually negatve behavior will surface.
Perhaps if you could find a way to send hiim to a trainer to resolve these first issues, and make him compatable to your trail experience level – ?
I read some of the beginning of your post and did try to reply, but my computer was acting up. I think you are trying to push your horse too fast. My old TB mare (not bred for sport) was started as a show hunter. She was very spooky in the ring, so I was nervous about taking her out on the trails. Also no steady eddy to go out with. I started out just hand walking her in the woods behind the barn, adding little things like stepping over logs or downed branches as she showed me she was ready to encounter new things. Once she was doing pretty well with this, I tacked her up and lead her down the road( very quiet road with wide grassy areas) and into the woods and down some of the trails. I did this several times before even getting on her. After I saw how she was reacting to things, I may get on and ride for a little bit. If she started acting up, I got off and lead her for awhile until she settled. She was very well trained to hand walk with manners. Another thing I did for her since she was so spooky was to use ear pompoms. I also took her to as many de-sensitization clinics as possible. She has turned into the best trail horse. When I first started taking her off the farm, I tried to keep everything as laid back as possible. Sometimes I even got off and walked her if she got nervous about something.
My new horse 7yo OTTB came to me last fall and I have just been taking it really slow with her. She raced about 9 times and then kind of hung out in the pasture and did the occasional trail ride. So even though she is 7, I am treating her more like she is around 4. I started hand walking her around the farm. I used a halter and regular lead and also a chain lead.I also had my pockets stuffed with treats. If she was behaving, I didn’t need to use the chain, but it was there in case. If she got a little nervous, I stopped, patted her, and gave her a few treats and then continued on. Did this a few times until I saw how she reacted to things, and then started riding her out with one buddy, just walking and a tiny bit of trot. She has gone off the farm about 10 times on small group trail rides that I knew were going to be quiet( walk and talks). I could concentrate on letting her get used to being around other horses in a quiet sensible way, learning how to be in different positions, next to other horses, crossing water, bridges, etc. She has been doing quiet well. We have encountered tons of water crossings, bridges, hikers, runners, walkers with dogs and or baby carriages, road crossings, and even cannons at one park where they were doing civil war re-inactments. We have even encountered ground bees twice with nothing too bad occuring. She is great in the woods, but still a little “up” in the wide open fields. I am older so don’t bounce that well anymore. That is why I am opting to take it really slow. Riding in the ring is a work in progress. She is getting better about contact, and leg aids. Until I feel she has come along well with that, she won’t do anything fast paced out of the ring.
You may need to have a trainer who is used to TB’s help you out. Be sure they are used to working with OTTB’s though. I enlisted the help of the trainer across the road. She had done a great job with my friend’s Fresian cross, but she tried to cram my mare in a frame too soon and it took me several months(still fighting it a little) to keep my mare from giving a false on the bit head set( really above the bit avoiding contact although her head looks in the proper position). I think you need to throttle back on your group trail rides and just go for slow, one maybe two buddies at the walk in the vicinity of the barn and add more as your horse will tolerate. Good luck.
Thanks for all the advise everyone. I had an equine massage therapist out to him last night, and she recommended a chiro. He’s very sore through his back.
So I think we have a combination of things that could be contributing to his issues. I am not riding him until they are resolved.
I have a great update. Went out with a dear friend today, we kept the ride short and sweet, so to make sure we ended on a good note.
I had Lucas on a loose rein the whole time, he was quiet and calm. We just walked out for 15 mins and came home. Not one single incident. He did great.
Thank you all so much for all of your advise. We will get there with small steps.
That is GREAT news - well done!!! :yes:
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7758395]
That is GREAT news - well done!!! :yes:[/QUOTE]
Thank you so much! It was one of the best riding experiences I have had in a long time, I am absolutely thrilled. The other achievements I’ve had in the past felt like a big deal at that time, but don’t compare.
If I’d have been on a friends horse who was behaving the way he did, I would have been riding one handed and/or on the buckle. I didn’t have that level of trust, but there was a healthy sag in the reins, and very little contact on his mouth (I am an English rider, so light contact is normal for me).
A dog even charged his chain link fence, snarling and barking his head off. I felt Lucas round up under me like he was ready to go, but he didn’t do more than that. My energy was so much better and I was reassuring him rather than worrying that he was going to freak out. He rushed through the creek, and the muddy areas that are right behind it - but that’s ok, that’s all new stuff to him. I can work him on that.
I couldn’t be more pleased, I am so thrilled. Thank God for amazing friends who have your back every step of the way. She was more than happy to take out her bomb proof horse, and just walk. Totally understood that she’s not riding on the buckle either, as she’s ready to grab him if we are flying past, or block us before that happens - and then just calmly walk, and talk. She was such a help, and is very willing to keep doing that. We will have a few more walks together, just the two of us, and then try a brief trot.
Two steps forward, one step back right? Had an awful ride. I don’t know what to call it, it wasn’t a rear, it was all 4 off the ground, in a straight up movement, he was just jumping off the ground. He did that twice, maybe three times. Other than that we were back to cantering on the spot, and prancing.
It’s odd, it came and went in the ride, there were times when I was close to the buckle, but alert, giving him his head The only indicator is that it seemed to come from the lead horse, he’s new too, and when he freaked, we freaked. Not riding out with him again. I need steady eddies, experienced horses.
At this point, I think it has to be me, He’s not finding his confidence in me, so he’s taking his cues from the other horses. I will admit that I don’t have confidence in him, so it’s likely a revolving circle of that.
Be kind, I am trying to do my best here.
One bad ride at early Fall, i.e. time, when many horses like to show off their sillies.
Take it down a notch and keep going. You can work through it.
As for him spooking, when other horse spooked- that is not unusual at all.
I have much better rides, in general, when riding alone, because then, he turns to me for guidance all the time and I only have to deal with him.
With other horses around? He naturally reacts to what they are doing, so, in the end, it is double work for me- to be with him/ride him and to correct for other horses’ behavior.
He will listen to me and not unravel, but that initial reaction is there (like they jump, he jumps) and I have to take it from there and calm him down.
Perhaps, work him in the field, take him for a solo walk in hand (just a little ways), or walk him out briefly after work in field, like you talked about earlier.
He may not be a trail-horse material, but I don’t think one could tell after two months or so.
Some horses take a long time to adjust and then become wonderful mounts for trails.
I would keep going, but, at the same time, I encourage you to do what you think is best for your situation.
Good luck!
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