Sounds like you really need to be doing more ground work and desensitizing with this horse. And when you ride the horse on the buckle, you are “untraining” your horse because you are not giving him any cues or guidance, and he is left on his own to make all the decisions. That is why he does not have a lot of confidence in you - as soon as he relaxes, you abandon him. I have one that can get nervous and spooky in the lead, so as we go down the trail, I am moving her hips or shoulders over every few strides so she is listening to me. She only leads on familiar trails at this point, and we are still doing ground work every ride. For example, I open and close and twirl an umbrella all around her, get on, and do the same thing while on her back. We walk over a tarp strewn with plastic bottles that rattle when her feet hit them.
I disagree about untraining the horse by riding on the buckle-- certainly we can all agree that we give more cues by our seat and legs than by a bit in the mouth! And what about Western riders who ride on a VERY loose rein, 99% of the time?? While there certainly neds to be a gradual transition between “lots of contact” to “light contact” to “buckle,” allowing a horse to have his head isn’t “untraining” him.
Anyway, this is a tricky time of year to be gauging a horse’s trail-suitability… It’s fall, the weather is changing, the air has a crispness to it, and even the BEST horses can act like goobers.
I know mine was last weekend-- normally, he is a trail-riding guru; I trail-ride him in a bitless bridle. He is the “steady eddy” lead horse that my friends ask to go out with for their first rides on THEIR green horses. Heck, a couple weeks ago, a beginner friend of mine hopped on him-- bitless bridle and all-- and rode him solo, half a mile into the woods, looking for me (and her knucklehead green horse) because we hadn’t come back when she was expecting us-- and my horse was calm as a cucumber.
But this past weekend, he was a crow-hopping Mr. Snorty-Pants at the trailhead. :lol:
It’s fall; it’s what they do. (And they’ll do it again in springtime, too, so be prepared!)
[QUOTE=AlexS;7785986]
Two steps forward, one step back right? Had an awful ride. I don’t know what to call it, it wasn’t a rear, it was all 4 off the ground, in a straight up movement, he was just jumping off the ground. He did that twice, maybe three times. Other than that we were back to cantering on the spot, and prancing.
It’s odd, it came and went in the ride, there were times when I was close to the buckle, but alert, giving him his head The only indicator is that it seemed to come from the lead horse, he’s new too, and when he freaked, we freaked. Not riding out with him again. I need steady eddies, experienced horses.
At this point, I think it has to be me, He’s not finding his confidence in me, so he’s taking his cues from the other horses. I will admit that I don’t have confidence in him, so it’s likely a revolving circle of that.
Be kind, I am trying to do my best here.[/QUOTE]
Don’t beat yourself up too much - remember that great ride that you had!
When I went to the Buck Brannaman clinic this year someone in my class was asking about her horse being nervous on the trails and a jiggy mess and she had a hard time with the people she rode out with. His advice? Choose your riding partners carefully. Really simple advice, but very true. Especially when you are in the very early stages of teaching your horse to be good on the trails, the last thing you need to do is go out with someone whose horse isn’t a good leader.
So now you know not to go out with that person. That’s okay, you learned something valuable.
I have a friend whose riding style is different than mine. She does things that I think aren’t the best, safety-wise. She’s fine with her choices (obviously), but I wouldn’t choose to do what she does. That’s okay. We don’t ride together but we still socialize outside of the horses. I have other girlfriends whose horsemanship is on the same page as mine and those are the friends I choose to ride with. We all look out for each other and we’re well-matched horse-wise and skill-wise. Otherwise, I ride alone and I’m okay with that, too.
Do what is best for your horse and always remember that he’s looking to you for confidence. You made progress before, you’ll do it again if it is what you really want. :yes:
Too bad you’re not in my area, I’d be happy to take you out and Mac would help your horse learn how nice it is to be in the big outdoors!
Thank you all for the advise, and more importantly the support.
It’s new to me to be nervous, but I am in my late 30s, and what was fun when I was 15, just isn’t anymore. Years ago, I would have jumped on a problem horse and loved it. Now I will (and am) riding any horse, but am putting too much stress into my guy. My head (mental) is ruining my body, I used to have great equitation, and now I have a chair seat, as I am defensive riding. I am on alert all the time. I am waiting for the time bomb to go off, and therefore creating the time bomb.
My horse has a soft mouth, so riding close to the buckle isn’t an issue for him. In an arena, I can stop him with my seat. I can do that on the trails too, unless he is freaking out. I usually ride on very soft contact, nothing close to western neck reining, but very soft contact in my world. My friend is a western rider, and she says how soft his mouth is. It’s not finger lifting soft, but I think it’s pretty close.
I am riding in the morning, with just my friend on her steady eddy, bomb proof horse. I need to breathe, and not create the issue myself.
Don’t get discouraged, it is a lot of rinse and repeat to get your horse to be good on trails. Always pick your riding partners carefully, gauge the level of “upness” your horse may be having and try to opt for safe first and then advance as your horse appears to be improving. Went on a cross country ride with my old TB today and she was a little up. I can always tell because she does this funny light fluttery snort. She was doing some little spooky flinches as the acorns were dropping like bombs, but perfectly quiet when cars passed as we were riding down the road. Some days she is worse and I opt to just do a walking ride. Today although fresh, she was well behaved and we walk, trot, and cantered on the ride. It may help to do a little lunging before you take him out if you feel he is really frisky.
I have been reading this thread with great interest. OP, I could have written many of your posts, particularly the one where you stated that you really need to be able to set the pace of the ride so you need riding partners who don’t mind that, and also when you stated that you feel like manure when you hold everyone back.
I feel that way, too. I used to be able to go out and enjoy myself and have the best time … and this was on a mare who was NOT a steady girl. I think part of it was I didn’t know as much then as I do now. I have a fantastic horse now who is very sensible and who puts up with so much of my worries and anxiety and honestly, it is all because of his tolerance that I am not dumped off and flung into trees on every ride because truly, I deserve it the way I get so tense and nervous. I am the type that needs to ride a lot or I get unused to riding and I don’t feel balanced and that makes me nervous and on I go. I have had nearly 2 years of very sporadic riding and I am finally getting to go out again on a very nice, nearly perfect horse and I am having problems.
I can relate to your statements about trying to ride when you feel nervous. It is so hard.
I am taking lessons every Monday and my instructor gets on one of her very steady horses (she knows that I know which ones those are, so she humors me) and after a lot of work in a big field, we go out on the trails near her farm. It is so beneficial to me! I always leave her lessons feeling like I can do anything.
I also have a good friend who is so patient and kind and I go out with her, too. We rode today – my first ride since the weather turned CRISP and I did okay. I still had a few anxious moments. My friend noticed that it is about 20-30 minutes into the ride that I usually get worried. We added an extra loop to our ride today and I almost made it back to the trailer, but finally my worries got the best of me and I got off and led my horse the rest of the way.
Do you have a trusted instructor who would do a trail riding lesson with you? When I have my lesson tomorrow, I am going to tell my instructor how I do okay for 20-30 minutes and then I get anxious. No particular reason … it is not that the trail is hard, I really don’t know why this happens.
Good luck and keep trying. I know you can do this! At least you are not afraid to be ON your horse during difficult times. My very first instinct is GET OFF. I resisted that several times today, so that was a little progress for me.
SCM1959
There are calming vitamins (supplements of magnesium and B-vitamins) that just take the edge off. This is not a drug and no shame at all in using this. (examples are Perfect Prep, Smart Calm and Training Day)
I think trying this on your horse would also help you, and may even have a placebo effect on you for the mental cycle you are describing: “Of course he’ll be good on the trail because he had Perfect Prep paste today.”
Maybe people will flame me for suggesting it. But I think these supplements are not really any different than changing the feed or ratio of grain, or quality of hay, to monitor behavior of a hot horse. It can’t hurt and might help (in fact, it might help a lot).
Just a thought, to add to all the other good advice you have. I know what OP is experiencing with a loss of trust and confidence in her horse, so I really feel for her!.
[QUOTE=Daisyesq;7796809]
There are calming vitamins (supplements of magnesium and B-vitamins) that just take the edge off. This is not a drug and no shame at all in using this. (examples are Perfect Prep, Smart Calm and Training Day)
I think trying this on your horse would also help you, and may even have a placebo effect on you for the mental cycle you are describing: “Of course he’ll be good on the trail because he had Perfect Prep paste today.”
Maybe people will flame me for suggesting it. But I think these supplements are not really any different than changing the feed or ratio of grain, or quality of hay, to monitor behavior of a hot horse. It can’t hurt and might help (in fact, it might help a lot).
Just a thought, to add to all the other good advice you have. I know what OP is experiencing with a loss of trust and confidence in her horse, so I really feel for her!.[/QUOTE]
She could try some calming supplements for her, too. 
(I take magnesium for migraines and I have noticed that sometimes it seems to help me feel calmer also, without feeling drugged or sleepy. So it might be worth a try. Test first off horse, of course. And be aware that too much magnesium can have a laxative effect, so don’t go for the extra strength variety. 
)
Thank you all for the advise and the support. I’ve had two calm rides on Lucas since, both times I was just out with my one friend on her bomb proof horse. I need to build him up with riding with a group. Which is kinda rough as I am telling people that I am not ready to ride with them yet, (I don’t say this) but they are newer riders and add a bit of chaos to the rides - which isn’t their fault.
I am lucky that my friend is giving me one of hers to ride when there’s a group of us going out.
Hang in there SCM. You just have to ride and push yourself through it.
As far as supplements, he’s on Divine Equine which is a calming supplement. I personally wouldn’t want to be taking something myself. I am not in the least bit worried when I am on friends horses, I think that when Lucas is wigging out, that I am kinda justified to be more alert, and I’d like to keep that edge.
[QUOTE=AlexS;7800315]
Thank you all for the advise and the support. I’ve had two calm rides on Lucas since, both times I was just out with my one friend on her bomb proof horse. I need to build him up with riding with a group. Which is kinda rough as I am telling people that I am not ready to ride with them yet, (I don’t say this) but they are newer riders and add a bit of chaos to the rides - which isn’t their fault.
I am lucky that my friend is giving me one of hers to ride when there’s a group of us going out.
Hang in there SCM. You just have to ride and push yourself through it.
As far as supplements, he’s on Divine Equine which is a calming supplement. I personally wouldn’t want to be taking something myself. I am not in the least bit worried when I am on friends horses, I think that when Lucas is wigging out, that I am kinda justified to be more alert, and I’d like to keep that edge.[/QUOTE]
Oh my experience with magnesium isn’t that it’s so strong it would prevent you from being properly alert. It just might help if you are starting off tensed up so you feed his anxiety. I definitely wouldn’t do something like Valium or getting a bit drunk or what have you, as those would mess with your reaction times. (I had a LOT of IV Valium for my wisdom teeth and the experience was basically “I know they are doing Awful Things in my mouth but I Just. Don’t. Care.” Definitely not the kind of thing you want to be feeling on a horse, even a total steady Eddie.)
My rough understanding is that magnesium isn’t a sedative in itself so much as if you are running a bit low it can exaggerate stress/anxiety symptoms, and also something to do with nervous system function. So if your body is quite happy with the magnesium levels you already have, taking it won’t do anything at all for you unless you take enough for the laxative effect to kick in. Which is for sure not going to help with anxiety on a trail ride! 
But like I said, I would definitely test it off horse first Just in Case. (For me, the calming effect I get is mostly just enough to help me actually use my brain and feel confident about my ability to deal with things, rather than getting stuck in the endless “but what if???” cycle my brain is fond of when anxious. Not overly confident, mind you, just, you know, gags the bit of my brain doing the Kermit flail about how omg we are all going to die!!!)
Eta: I’m not telling you TO use it, I just wanted to clarify for you and anyone else who might find it helpful that taking a bit of magnesium does not seem to work as a particularly heavy hitter as far as anti-anxiety options. It is definitely not in the same league as an actual pharmaceutical drug like something like Valium. (Which, I am not saying not to use Valium if that is what you have agreed with your doctor is the best plan for you and anxiety! But it is probably overkill for someone who is dealing with a relatively mild amount of anxiety.)
There’s a herbal supplement: Rescue Remedy.
A friend was using it for her thunder-anxious dog, then used it herself to get through the Red Rock Canyon ride.
She has a fear of heights & this was a Grand Canyon-type ride that had mules walking the edge of very narrow trails.
OP:
From your last post it sounds like you have made progress and your approach is working for you & Lucas.
The more confident you get riding the SteadyEddie loaner, the more you can transfer that to your guy :encouragement:
Ditto Rescue Remedy - I’ve used it on both my horse and myself if I’m feeling a bit anxious about something (riding with a group, riding in a clinic with a bunch of other people, etc.).
I’ve done tons of trail riding in my time on different horses and I found that the really jiggly, prancy ones are often much better right in the front leading. Especially with your guy being a TB he will definitely feel the competition being with a group of horses and in the middle. Being at the front makes them focus on what’s ahead without the anxiety of keeping up with buddies. I always had a really steady horse directly behind to take the lead should my guy balk or get really wound up and then as soon as he was in control of himself to take the lead again. Also, I think somebody else pointed out that just about the worst trail situation for a new trail horse is in a large group. Until he is really steady and confident I would take him out with one to three other really steady trail savy horses and riders. Good luck, I’m sure you will get there.
I agree short rides right now, but the other thing you need to do is practice letting him go on a long rein.
Set him up in the arena by having lots if walk rests on a long rein.
My tb automatically lengthens and lowers his neck when I loosen the reins . This calms him down even if he was excited.
Now my tb is a very very good boy but we’ve been on trails when camping when he was like your horse.
For us the answer was 10 mile trotting sessions with an endurance rider on a solid endurance horse but you should start with 10 - 20 minute short loops.
I think though that loose reins and practice breathing long and deep breaths.
First thing I would do is adjust the diet. The little guy (3 year old foster) I have now was hyper when he was dropped off. I slowly backed him off all the grain he was being fed, added alfalfa and Remission supplement. He is loads better now.
I would never just ride a horse out on a road or trail who has no experience with it. Trail riding requires training like anything else. I hand walk them down the road, I love doing it on days when everyone is out mowing lawns and driving around. I want to see how the horse will react and learn about them.
I ride in the pasture first, and I try to keep a loose rein. If the horse starts to run off and I didn’t ask I do a one rein disengage the hind end to stop them and ask for a walk again. Repeat until they get that they are to walk and relax on a loose rein. When the horse seems ready then I will hack out down the road or trail. Short rides at first and then gradually increasing.
I will suggest the book “That Winning Feeling” by dressage trainer Jane Savoie. It’s not about dressage it’s about building mental confidence in yourself and your horse. She uses a lot of mental imagery and “self-talk” and I found it to be very helpful.
