tips to get horse to stand for farrier

[rockyriver7]

Anyone have tips for how I can get my horse to stand better for the farrier? He is particularly tricky to shoe behind and has started to need to be sedated. He clearly does not like to hold his hind legs up at a normal place, even for me when I pick his feet, and even under sedation can sometimes give the farrier trouble. He prefers to hold his legs up super high and tense and gets kicky when asked to hold them a different way or for an extended period of time.
He is fine to shoe up front for the most part. He just recently (2 cycles) started having hind shoes after discovering a negative palmer angle.

Would love to hear tips on training I can do to move towards a sedation-free shoeing, or other things I can do to make my horse more comfortable and relaxed while being shod.

I am aware that these issues likely stem from physical problem(s) and I am actively working with my vet and farrier to resolve it. If you’ve had a horse with similar issues I’d be interested hear about your experience.

[JB]

You need to start with finding out WHY he’s uncomfortable behind. PSSM, HYPP, Lyme disease, and more.

Negative palmar angle - is this actually resolved? It doesn’t sound like it, as 2 cycles is a pretty short time

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

1. Talk to your vet about giving Bute before he gets trimmed.
2. Talk to the farrier about changing up how he trims the back hooves.
   Trim the back left
   Trim the back right
   .Nail the back left
   Nail the back right.

Use the lowest stand the farrier has.
See if the farrier will be willing to give the horse frequent breaks so the horse doesnt have to keep his legs up for very long.

Some farriers are willing to work with you on this, but some of them think it’s useless babying of the horse. You wont know until you ask.

In between farrier visits, you can frequently pick his back legs up just long enough for him to relax it. Once he does immediately let him put it down

increase the time you can hold it up.
Eventually he will learn that he can trust you to know how long he can hold it up without pain.

Also be respectful of how you pick his legs up.
Most farriers become indifferent to how they pick up a horses leg and dont always consider how it can affect older horses who have arthritis or joint problems.

You can try and respectfully request your farrier not yank his legs up.

Hope this helps.

[EverElite]

Any idea how long the NPA has been brewing? Long toes, low heels and the postural changes created by NPA to compensate can put stress on the entire musculoskeletal system. Bodywork will help undo the problems caused by NPA, but until you resolve the angles, I don’t think you’ll get a comfortable horse.

[walkinthewalk]

As has already been stated, the best tip to getting your horse to stand quietly Is to find out why he is in pain and has to hold his hind legs in a way you and the farrier find offensive.

I have been dealing with the issue you describe since 2007, in my horse with the fractured sacrum. He sees a chiro every month. He has a therapeutic farrier who doesnt need to sedate him because she works WITH him, not against him.

A tart answer but I can’t believe neither you nor the farrier have bothered to figure out the horse hurts———

[rockyriver7]

it appears I was unclear in my original post, I apologize. I’ve amended my original post to better reflect my question.

Thank you to those of you who provided constructive answers. I’ve actually done a lot of work to figure out what’s wrong and have tested for/treated/ruled out everything mentioned and more. That is my first priority. I have been working with multiple vets including a lameness specialist and therapist farrier. My farrier is wonderful and patient and willing to work with us. I agree with him that at this point with the way my horse has been acting, it is the safest thing to sedate him to protect the horse from hurting the farrier or himself. I was merely looking for ways that I can help him and help my horse in addition to the vet work I am already doing.

His negative palmer angle was not too severe, and both vet and farrier feel confident it has been corrected, though we plan to take follow up x-rays to confirm soon. Not sure how long the horse has had it-- I have had him about a year and he has always been barefoot behind until we discovered it 2 months ago. My guess is probably a while. I am aware many of his other symptoms/issues may stem from the NPA.

So, any tips on what I can do with him to make him happier while being shod are welcome.

walkinthewalk-- Thanks for the great advice. Really great, constructive stuff. I’m not going to “bother” justifying myself to you.

[candyappy]

If you have had him for a year, has this particular farrier been doing him the whole time, or just the last 2 shoeing cycles?

Was he good to stand without sedation just being barefoot behind?

Sometimes the way a farrier likes to position themselves and the leg is really uncomfortable for the horse. I have had 2 farriers over the years my horses just couldn’t be good for. Very unlike them and with the first appointment with a new farrier the problems were gone.

It might be the way the farrier is positioned and the way the hind leg is being positioned for getting the shoes on maybe?

It might be so mild a change you can’t see it but the horse can feel it?

[EverElite]

@rockyriver7 - totally understand. I am unraveling a year-plus of NPA on my mare, which correlated with her increasingly poor behavior for her hoof care providers. Bad angles created some serious pain throughout her back, hip, hamstrings - you name it. Three farriers later, I’ve finally found someone patient enough to wine and dine her, and understands how to manage her hoof pathology.

Even though my farrier is patient and is willing to give my mare as many breaks as she needs, my job to keep both of them safe so I bite the bullet and give her dorm gel each cycle. I plan on slowly weaning the dosage down in the next few cycles now that we have her angles stable.

Putting down this cheap mat from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07W86HMXN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) has worked wonders for her comfort since the NPA thrashed her digital cushion. If you can, I’d also recommend a light lunge before the shoeing appointment to get the horse nice and loose. And perhaps a hay net full of alfalfa or something else yummy during.

Good luck. It’s tough when everyone assumes the horse is being an ass or is poorly trained/handled when, in fact, the horse is reacting to pain… can’t train through pain.

[rockyriver7]

this farrier has been doing him for probably the last 8 months. My horse has never been an angel to shoe/trim, but when he was barefoot he would stand well enough to do the job. The prior farrier he seemed to like less. Not easy but not requiring sedation until we started with the hind shoes which seem to really bother him.

I suppose it could be the positioning. I’ll play around with him today and see where he seems the most comfortable. For me, some days he will seem really offended about picking up his legs and will really try avoid holding his legs anywhere but super flexed and high, and other days he is normal and doesn’t seem to care.

We think the NPA is the root cause of the other issues we’ve been treating lately and hopefully will be the final piece we need for a happy sound horse! He definitely seems happier overall since we’ve started treating it. That’s an interesting tip about the mat! I had never thought of something like that but could be worth a try!

[punchy]

It’s possible your horse is tense/hikey when shod behind because he is anticipating and reacting to pain from hammering and/or the nails, if he is thin walled.

[Manybees]

I clicker trained my mare to “stand” and ground tie without moving her feet then adapted that to standing still while her legs were being held up first by myself, then by a helper. It really helped her to relax for shoeing, and she was pretty awful for the farrier when I first got her. You need good timing- release the leg before he gets fiddly and reward; do not reward him if he is moving or slams the foot down. If you think he has anxiety about someone approaching his hind end with farrier tools you can desensitize around that with the help of a friend and clicker training too. There is a BEVA “don’t break your vet” series on YouTube- not specifically about standing for the farrier but I think the basic idea of desensitization and clicker reward would apply here, especially if you think he has developed some fear around shoeing. And I agree, if possible for your horse, about a dose of bute for shoeing if you think he might have some hind end discomfort. Good luck with your guy!

[walktrot]

The one thing I disagree with a few posts above is “let him put his foot down.” That could give him the idea he decides, not the farrier. The trick is to put it down before he does. Work for a few minutes every day so you can gradually extend how long you have it in your hand. If he tries to put it down stick with him so you put it down on the floor. If he beats you pick it right back up without pausing,

When you pick a hind foot up most horses pull the leg up more and pull it forward. I always tell people to follow the motion so the horse can stretch it. Then you can bring it down and back rather than fighting him. My farrier trims the hinds with them resting on her boot. He rests his hind toes on the floor for me.

We’ve had one farrier for 20 years. A number of years ago he starting deciding which foot she should work on. He doesn’t have a preference so you start with the one he picks up and move on from there. I don’t have an established order either but he picks up the one I’m standing next to.

I’ve watched a lot of farriers over the years and one thing that sticks out is how far “under” the horse they work. One was older, retired, and took up shoeing as a “lameness expert.” He wasn’t (but I’m not going there now), He wasn’t physically capable (and he wore sneakers). He couldn’t hold a shoe on the hoof and nail it, so he used two hoof stands, One cradled the hoof and he rasped on the other. He had to pull the horse’s leg far enough laterally to work on the hoof stands. When a horse got too uncomfortable he would pull his leg back with a tremendous clatter and disruption. It scared the living daylights out of my horse, who hates big noisy disruptions. One glance was all it took for my horse to head in the opposite direction for some peace and quiet while we tacked up.