Tips to help rider keep the hands up

[CHT]

I have a lovely ammy lesson student I have been teaching since last fall. She previously schooled to second level, so not a beginner. For the life of me, I cannot get her to bend her elbows for more than a stride.

“Hands up” - “ok” (hands go up for a stride and then right back down)
Same with “bend your elbows”, “lift your horse” “Keep your hands together” (her hands get so low that the horse’s withers are between them, so putting them together does require her to lift them).

My bitless lesson horse she sometimes rides seems to love the low hand, but with the spicy mare she part leases, the low hands equate to unintentional sawing.

She KNOWS why I want the hands up, but she just can not do it. She realizes this is also true when she downhill skis.

Her posture is otherwise good.

help!

So far my only idea is to get a partially deflated soccer ball and make her hold that in her forearms…but that could go a little sideways…literally. I tried having her hold a whip under her thumbs but she has super small hands and she found it uncomfortable so wasn’t useful for creating muscle memory.

i have also imagined making her hold plastic beakers of something gross in each hand…but that would spill on the horse, not her…

Any other ideas?

[outerbanks77]

Maybe a resistance band? If it’s not totally safe on the spicy mare I’d have her hold it in her hands and keep it pulled apart, but I have used it on my younger horse even when she wasn’t very reliable I could ride with it and slip a hand out if I felt like I needed the control

[Scribbler]

It’s relearning muscle memory. Try to get her to ride with her elbows touching her sides.

It’s also worth asking her why she feels more comfortable with her hands down and her arms straight. One thing that allows you to do is to take, but not give. With your elbow bent you can give much better, but it’s possible that she feels vulnerable and wants the reins short and tight.

Finally there is a category of crap dressage trainers who active teach students yo have their hands low and to seesaw the mouth to make the horse “round”. She may have been taught this.

[Mouse_amp_Bay]

I think I saw a YouTube video (maybe Amelia??) chatting about this. Her suggestion was holding a bit in your hand. Find a big fat old loose ring you are not using, ask your student to hold the bit and the reins. Perhaps the weight of the bit will encourage her to lift and keep her hands properly bit width apart.

I will edit to post the video if I happen to find it! Found the video, here you go!

[endlessclimb]

Something keeps popping up on my facebook - it’s a pair of gloves with a velcro strap across the back (with a safety release). Maybe that might help?

SteadyHands Riding Gloves

[ParadoxFarm]

I am guilty of this as well. I struggle with it often. When I’m aware, I can fix it, but the moment I start thinking of something else, the bad habit kicks in. From an Amelia Newcomb clinic I rode in, she would remind me to think of carrying a tray out in front of me. That visual helps – when I think of it. Also, she suggested you can ride with a pair of gloves under your armpits to practice keeping your elbows in to your sides.

[Dr_Doolittle]

I use the “tray of dishes” analogy with my students to help them carry their hands. If they lower their hands, whatever is on the tray will slide off the front.

Also, “attach” your elbows to the sides of your pelvis with your shoulders relaxed and down, think “pelvis through elbows”, and the old standby of carrying two wine glasses and keeping them level.

I have a student who I started working with about two years ago who initially carried her hands too low from bad old hunter habits; while teaching her a dressage seat, I put my hands on her upper arm to check the tonus of her triceps. She had them constantly engaged which kept her hands low and wide! You always want to triceps to be “switched off” in a proper dressage seat.

There is a Mary Wanless tip that helps riders keep their upper arms closer to their torso: imagine a short bungee cord attached from your elbow to your lower ribs - this will keep your elbows close to your sides without clamping because you can “breathe” your elbows while still keeping them down and in.

Keeping a soft bend in the elbow will usually create a straight line from bit to elbow (the gold standard), though of course there could be a little variation in that position as needed!

Riders who ride with hands too low often ride with their knuckles on top (piano hands) as well – keeping the thumbnails pointed towards the bit will help with hand position - which will help with elbow position!

[BrownDerby]

Another visual is to pretend one has a handbag over their arm, near the elbow.

[Jackie_Cochran]

This helped me.

When I keep contact at the walk and canter, when I move my hands forward I also move them UP a little bit, maybe 1/2".

I had noticed that when my hands moved back they tended to go down a little bit, and if I did not lift them a little bit when I moved my hands forward my hands went down, kept on going down, and I ended up dragging the horse’s mouth down.

My lesson horses are much happier with my contact since I started correcting this. My hands move in an elongated oval rather than straight backwards and forwards.

[pluvinel]

@CHT

help!

Forget “gadgets.” No cords, balls, whips, etc.

This rider needs to develop self-awareness. Not every horse needs the rider to hold their hands exactly the same way. Each horse has to be ridden “as needed.” You reference this when you said

@CHT

My bitless lesson horse she sometimes rides seems to love the low hand, but with the spicy mare she part leases, the low hands equate to unintentional sawing.

Ask her questions…Ask her what she is trying to do that she is “sawing” on the horse’s face. Ask her questions about how she would feel if a little kid on her back was sawing on her hair. Ask her whether the “sawing” fixed the problem. (Prob Not)…ask her what else she thinks she should do…ask…ask…ask…ask so that she has to probe deep into herself. Only she can fix her hands.

I have run across one person who was absolutely clueless…dense…about the impact their riding had on the horse…who was an absolute saint. Hopefully your student has more capability in the self-awareness department.

Maybe the way to get the lightbulb to turn on is to relate it to skiing. Awareness will happen slowly. If she can relate riding to skiing ask her what happens when she skiis. Typically, there are consequences if one is out of balance and the person crashes.

Have her think about riding as an exercise in balance…balance between her and the horse…a balance that is always moving, where the rider has to be adjusting to adapt to the changing conditions…just as a skier adapts to changing conditions of the snow track. How one holds their hands is not a “static” posture, but a conversation with the horse.

Just my thoughts…

[Live_Wire]

It’s me! I’m the problem.

I do this too. For a multitude of reasons. I have found a few different exercises that help me depending on my malfunction at the time.

Riding with driving reins.

Riding with bridged reins. Either one or both.

Riding with a spare rein looped under my horses neck - sort of like a neck rope only not a continuous loop.

[KBC]

@Scribbler

Finally there is a category of crap dressage trainers who active teach students yo have their hands low and to seesaw the mouth to make the horse “round”. She may have been taught this.

Me, me, I had one of those…

It’s damm hard when you have been shouted at to keep your hands down, to suddenly be asked to keep your hands UP.

Come to think on it, that hadn’t been mentioned in a long time, maybe I have relearned.

[Bogey2]

I agree with those who mention the elbows…the rider needs to understand that the elbows are hinges and not push the hands down. A couple of things I have seen be successful are to have rider push the hands into the horse neck and post which makes them have to use the elbow bend to understand how they work. Another is to touch your knuckles together and post around until the elbows bend with the posting.

[Mondo]

I use a sippy cup. (As does Carl Hester, I’ve learned). Rider holds it AND the reins in front of them. It’s not allowed to touch the horse. In really bad cases, I’ve put water in the cup so that if their hand or hands go down, they’ll spill a little. It doesn’t seem to bother the horses, but it does help create awareness of what those elbows are doing. Because until she feels what she’s doing, she can’t fix it.

[CHT]

How are you holding the sippy cup?

[CHT]

I don’t think this is something the rider was ever taught (her former coach is quite good), and she understands WHY I want her hands up, she just absolutely cannot seem to keep it in her consciousness for more than a second beyond me telling her.

She is not intentionally sawing on the reins, it is more that her hands just move in the motion of the horse (like how you swing your arms in the walk). She is confident enough riding on a completely loopy rein, so it isn’t fear or tension.

It is just a very odd sticking point for a rider who is otherwise very coachable. We have made other position changes successfully, it is just her arms.

Carrying a snaffle might be an easy thing to try. I was also thinking of diving weights on the wrist…or an electric shock collar…

[netg]

I had decades of other disciplines not caring if elbows were bent and not having good contact, with hands basically straight down. Decades of doing it wrong make it HARD to get the message from your brain to your body to work.
Bend elbows? Did nothing. Lift hands? Put my shoulders in my ears for some reason. For whatever reason, “lower your elbows” was the message which let me relax shoulders down and lift my hands.
On a very trustworthy horses my trainer did things like drive me with a short lead rope looped on my elbows, so I could feel what contact was supposed to feel like. Another was putting something heavy on my forearms so I had to balance it (cinderblock, big book, etc.) The heavy item also got all the other supporting core muscles engaged.

[pony_grandma]

I’ve used small coffee cups before with kids to help them with awareness and feel. Sippy cup is a safer idea. Holding the cups helps them understand the line of connection from horse’s mouth to rider’s elbow. Then the elbow to the shoulders down to the seat (vs pulling). I’ve also stood by the horse’s shoulder and asked for them to hand me the cup, then moved to the other side - to prove they can use their hands independently.

Then they graduate to the ride with your eyes.

[VodkaRedbullx2]

Put a dressage whip over her wrists and send her a few laps wtc during warm up - too low and she drops it! Forgets to use her seat and leg to turn - drops it too! It helps with the perprioperception and is a good teaching tool for warm up.

[Long_Time_Lurker]

If the horse she is riding is suitable, you could put her on the lunge line without reins and have her work ONLY on keeping her hands in the right place for part of the lesson. Ingrained habits die hard. Then let her hold the reins with no contact (still on the lunge and not working on anything else) still keeping her hands in place. Then with light contact, then off the lunge at the walk with light contact. Then circles and serpentines. Then trot around the ring. Still not giving her other things to focus on. As soon as she starts thinking about anything else too the habit will probably resurface. Ask me how I know. Different habit for me, but this is how it was finally corrected. You probably need to get her buy in at the beginning to work ONLY on what is probably her least favorite thing to work on for a while. If she really wants to be a better rider and believes you that this habit is what is holding her back she will be willing to go this route.