Tire kickers - spin off

[16_Hands]

A horse selling thread got me thinking about what constitutes a tire kicker? Is it someone who asks a million questions, asks for video and then not following through with an actual visit or is it someone who goes and tries the horse and then nothing?

Then a second question came up, if you are shopping for a horse and ask questions and ask for video, go make the visit and determine horse isn’t what you’re looking for (and I think we’ve all been there judging by the number of threads on the subject ) doesn’t that, in effect, make you a tire kicker?

So what determines a tire kicker?

[Wayside]

IMO, it’s someone who was never going to buy the horse (or perhaps even any horse at all) no matter how nice the photos/videos/test rides were.

[hoopoe]

For my first selling situation

Tire kickers were the ones that come try a horse with no intention of buying. They are there to use your horse as a riding lesson / opportunity.

they come ,they see, they try. They ask nothing during or after and you never hear from them again.

but they got a riding opportunity 1/2 - 1 hour,

the logical steps for shopping via media

print ad… looks and sounds promising
so look at a video… thumbs up or down, if Up…

go to in person visit

if down, reject and move on. For me, if a video rejects the horse, it would be nice to send a note of thanks letting them know you are not further interested. I dont consider it tire kicking, it is natural progression

back before the internet and the ability to easily send video electronically, videos involved production and shipping etc. It was a cost center and I am sure many sellers spent a lot on videos that went to people with zero true interest in the horse. Then it was a costly form of tire kicking.

[alibi_18]

@hoopoe

Tire kickers were the ones that come try a horse with no intention of buying. They are there to use your horse as a riding lesson / opportunity.

This is the worst, and I’ve seen it happened at a barn I was boarding at. It happened to someone I wasn’t really friend with so I kinda just dropped hints that rider/trainer were having lots of fun during the lessons…

They came +5 times that I know of… everything was perfect each time and then, they weren’t interested to buy the horse.

[NoSuchPerson]

@hoopoe

Tire kickers were the ones that come try a horse with no intention of buying. They are there to use your horse as a riding lesson / opportunity.

they come ,they see, they try. They ask nothing during or after and you never hear from them again.

but they got a riding opportunity 1/2 - 1 hour,

One time a couple brought their daughter out to see a horse I had for sale. When they were leaving, the Mom informed me that they had no intention of buying little Susie a horse, they just brought her out to ride so she would quit bugging them.

[bitranchy]

IMO, tire kicker is probably a term that has a different definition depending on the person.

However, I think what is 100% inarguably a tire kicker is the person or persons like some users mentioned above. They just wanted to get some riding time in. I don’t think there’s any defence a person could give me in that scenario.

Otherwise, an online type of tire kicker would be someone who asked for lots of additional info, maybe even more video or photos, and then disappeared without a word. Any time I’ve been buying a horse and either seen or heard something that didn’t jive with me, I’d make sure to tell the seller I was no longer interested and to thank them for their time.

I don’t think a tire kicker is someone who sees the horse in person, after asking some questions and maybe even for more video, and then doesn’t go through with a purchase. There are lots of reasons for people to move on when they’ve gone out and seen the horse. Sometimes it’s better to walk away with a “thank you for your time, but we won’t be buying the horse” in some situations. It may leave the owner mystified, but some owners do not take well to the reasons behind why. I had tried out a horse years and years ago now, really liked it. We had the vet out to do a PPE and he didn’t feel comfortable endorsing the horse without doing x-rays, just felt something was NQR. The x-rays were not good, I forget what they showed now but the vet determined his soundness was questionable. The owner was in the barn since she was showing another horse while the PPE was going on and absolutely lost it on our vet. She proceeded to verbally berate him, and we all high tailed it out of there before she tried to hit him.

Now, most owners and sellers, I’d like to think, would not be so reactive. Few years later, I was trying a different horse and decided to pass on her since my vet had some big suspicions about her feet. Essentially, “why buy someone else’s problem” sort of deal. I decided to share the results of the PPE with the owner, since she seemed quite sweet and concerned. She did send me a follow up email about having her own vet out to check the horse, who had agreed with mine, and they were going to be rectifying the issue going forward.

Rambled a bit there, but anyway. Tire kicker is a term I think is hard to define, because you don’t always know someone’s motives or reasons, buyer or seller. Definition may change from person to person, depending how much of their time they feel someone is wasting. By and large, I think when you start looking to sell a horse or looking to buy a horse, there may be any number of frustrating things you could deal with. It’s par for the course.

[Scribbler]

I also think that sometimes people decide not to pursue a purchase at that time but they also don’t necessarily want to say flat out that they don’t want the horse, because maybe it will end up being the best choice after they’ve looked at other horses. I’m not sure I would feel I need to formally say “no, I’m not interested” after just communicating with someone by e-mail, but I can see if you went out and tried a horse, you maybe should do that.

[MsM]

I agree that a true “tire kicker” is one who never had any intention of buying the horse. However, from the seller’s viewpoint it is hard to determine. I am sure that I looked like one at times.

I have tried horses that were pretty much as advertised and didn’t do anything wrong when I rode, but I wasn’t sure. I would say something like “I like him but I have a few more to see” Seller continued to show and maybe sell if I didn’t come back and make an offer. The last two horses I bought, I was unsure at first. One was three months until I came back around and decided it was fate (I rode him three times). The other was over a month. The sellers may have thought I was tire kicking after the first visit!

[IronwoodFarm]

A tire kicker for me is what Wayside and Alibi_18 described. I’ll add to it the trainer who tells me before even seeing my horse that she has the perfect horse for her client in her barn. Of course the trainer did not like my horse or any of the other horses the client saw that day.

I am totally fine with someone trying a horse and not buying the horse. I’ve has situations where I have declined to sell the horse to the prospective buyer.

I’m fine if a buyer says not the right fit. I really want my sales horses to go to a home where they fit as it assures a better outcome. I’m actually good with any reason for not purchasing. Any feedback you can get is likely to be helpful.

[yaya]

A trainer friend goes to Wellington for the season, and since there are so many nice horses all in one place, people figure they can get free rides on these horses just for saying they are looking to buy. She and several other trainers were having such a problem with tire kickers, they got together and considered charging a fee for test rides, applicable to the purchase price if the sale actually went through. I don’t know if they actually did it, but it seemed like a good way to at least slow down the tire kickers. (Except, of course those to whom money is no object.)

[Magicboy]

A test ride fee does sound like a good idea and it makes sense to me

[Glyphica]

I would be put off by a test ride fee. What money range are we talking about for this fee?

[TMares]

I consider a tire kicker the person who comes out, tries the horse, likes the horse…and then tells me they can’t buy one until they buy a farm/sell their house/move closer to the barn/get a better job/win the lottery- those are tire kickers, they have neither the means nor the intent to purchase a horse this week or this month or maybe even this year. They can find ‘the horse’ and it doesn’t matter, buying it can’t happen.

Or they blow past the ad that is fully informative w/o being a novel and ask a standard set of questions: age/height/breeding/skills/faults, etc- like it’s a form the seller should fill out so that they can easily compare apples to apples. I find that lazy on the buyer’s part, and it puts up a red flag that tells me they didn’t even bother to read the ad, how interested are they, really?

[NJRider]

@TMares

Or they blow past the ad that is fully informative w/o being a novel and ask a standard set of questions: age/height/breeding/skills/faults, etc- like it’s a form the seller should fill out so that they can easily compare apples to apples. I find that lazy on the buyer’s part, and it puts up a red flag that tells me they didn’t even bother to read the ad, how interested are they, really?

THIS! With these people I pretend they “forgot” to read the ad and tell them I will tag them in it so they can be sure and go BACK and read it. Or the ones who admit they are clicking on so many ads they get them all mixed up so cannot be bothered to keep track of them I teach them how to save a FB ad. I am very helpful, ha ha.

Often at the end, they ask for a bunch of extra things then say “too bad you are so far” even though the location was in the ad.

[Guilherme]

@16 Hands

A horse selling thread got me thinking about what constitutes a tire kicker? Is it someone who asks a million questions, asks for video and then not following through with an actual visit or is it someone who goes and tries the horse and then nothing?

Then a second question came up, if you are shopping for a horse and ask questions and ask for video, go make the visit and determine horse isn’t what you’re looking for (and I think we’ve all been there judging by the number of threads on the subject ) doesn’t that, in effect, make you a tire kicker?

So what determines a tire kicker?

A true “tire kicker” is a person who contacts a seller but has no intent to buy.

The opposite is the person who contacts a seller with an intent to buy and cash in their pocket.*

Between the two is a spectrum of people with various intents and abilities.

This is just the reality of the world of commerce for any product or service.

G.

*“Cash” here will mean greenbacks, an appropriate checking account balance, an open line of credit with enough for the purchase, etc.

[MissAriel]

I think a tire kicker is someone with no intention of buying - regardless of the answers/video/price etc. I did look through a lot of ads and requested extra information and video on many. Sometimes the answers didn’t fit my requirements, sometimes the horse in the video wasn’t quite what I was looking for. I spent a lot of time talking to one seller, but ended up losing out to another buyer who had already scheduled a trip to see the horse. That seller was great, in that she still spent a great deal of time with me, but wouldn’t show the horse until the first buyer had a chance to try.

[Texarkana]

I think more often than not, “tire kicker” is a phrase used by sellers to make themselves feel better after they invest a lot of energy and fail to make a sale.

And I say this without judgement. It sucks when you think you are on track, then the potential buyer “ghosts” on you. So it becomes one of those platitudes you tell yourself or others, along with “it wasn’t meant to be,” or “they just weren’t the right person, the right person is still out there.”

I HATE having to tell a seller that I’m just not interested, especially if they ask why. On the flip side, it stinks when you cater to a buyer and get nothing in return. Selling horses requires a lot of drive and some pretty thick skin.

[horsepoor]

@Texarkana

I think more often than not, “tire kicker” is a phrase used by sellers to make themselves feel better after they invest a lot of energy and fail to make a sale.

Yes! That’s certainly my impression when I see the phrase thrown around on here.

To me, a tire kicker is someone who knows they won’t (or can’t) buy the horse but makes inquiries and/or tries it anyway.

[OneGrayPony]

I think it’s hard, because sometimes I miss things in ads (I do). I just apologized to a seller who was REALLY putting pressure on me to move fast and was inflexible about everything else. Then she got mad at me for missing that he had to move by the first of the year in the ad, and wanted me to pay for him to stay elsewhere for a week so I could try him. That’s a hard PASS for me - sorry you got into a pinch, but I’m not (as a buyer) paying for your poor planning, nor am I making a super-quick decision because you made a bigger mistake.

She’d probably label me a tire-kicker, but I was a buyer, who just didn’t want to deal with what I thought was way too much pressure.

Coincidentally, the horse I’m buying, I did make a decision quickly, because I didn’t want to lose him. shrug

I can’t imagine just wanting a “horse ride” and trying a horse for sale. I suppose there may be some that do it, but I wouldn’t want the pressure of the sale with it. I’ll just take a lesson or go to a hack stable if I want a “horse ride”!

[BeeHoney]

Now that the internet is ubiquitous, it’s really easy for people to casually shop for horses (or anything else) without firm intent. I think the definition of a tire kicker is a lot grayer now, because there are plenty of people who shop without firm intent who end up buying horses.

To me, a tire kicker is someone who at the end of the day does not have a realistic plan (either money, place to board, suitable life situation) for buying a horse but communicates with sellers nonetheless. I would say that a tire kicker is someone who is trying out the “idea” of buying a horse rather than actually prepared to buy one.

There are also perennial shoppers out there with unrealistic expectations about horses in general, and/or their own riding ability, and/or what they can get for their money, who make a hobby of responding to sales ads and looking at horses but finding fault with each and every one, even if they have to dig deep to find it. These people might have money in their pocket and a boarding place lined up, but they will never find a unicorn fine enough to fulfill their equestrian fantasy.