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To bite my tongue or not...?

Off Course
#1

I have a close friend that has a horse. My friend is, by my definition, a novice and really never had a formal equine education. She just trail rides and mostly does fine.

She loves her horse and I know she does her best to do right by it but she keeps having problems at every boarding place she brings the horse to. I get it, it’s hard to find a good place but I think she’s going about this the wrong way and not understanding her horse needs.

She just rides maybe once or twice a month on the weekends but she boards at places where her horse has a little tiny paddock/ stall with no turnout… ever. She goes to a place sees the big fancy indoor arena, tack room, stalls, pretty property and assumes that a big barn with frills = exceptional care. She goes to these places and then doesn’t get any training or have anyone exercise the horses and then gets mad when she gets put on the back burner at the barn because she has no interest in paying for lessons or training. Which, I understand. She just wants to trail ride on weekends and enjoy her horse. But since the horse isn’t getting exercised or turned out her horse is spooking and bucking and probably dangerous for her to ride.

Ive tried to nicely explain that horses need turnout ESPECIALLY if they’re not being ridden regularly. She seems to think they’re like gerbils where they just need food and water and a clean pen. She will buy her horse anything it needs and buy the fanciest blankets and call the vet for the littlest scratch but she doesn’t think the horse needs turnout. I’m not sure if she’s afraid of the horse getting hurt, or if she just thinks it’s bad to let your horse live outside or what…

But she is about to move to ANOTHER barn (she’s probably on barn 7 or 8 in 2 years) with again no turnout. I don’t know what to do. Personally, I feel it’s abusive to keep a horse in a stall 24/7 and not turn it out or ride ever. I kind of want to tell her that she needs to reassess her horses needs and find a facility that meets them better but I don’t like telling people what to do with their horses. So should I bite my tongue or no?

#2

You don’t need to do anything. You have offered your opinion, she has not followed your advice.

I would stop thinking of her as a horse friend, and only talk about other things.

Life is too short. You do not have time for this. Let it go, find new things to share.

27 Likes
#3

Yeah, disengage. This person isn’t interested in correct horse care. And I’m not sure what “being put on the back burner” can possibly mean to someone who rides twice a month.

I would add that many many competition riders also believe horses need no turnout, or will injure themselves in turnout, though they at least are working the horse fairly hard every day.

If her norms are being shaped by the prevailing practice at these high end barns, then your advice isn’t going to carry weight.

2 Likes
#4

See I think this is why I’m so conflicted. She really DOES care about “proper horse care” she just has no idea of what that is. I think she had one trainer where she bought this horse and that trainer just did a lot of things that are IMO bad practices, including selling this horse to my friend who was a complete beginner. And now she kind of just absorbed all of bad horse keeping practices as gospel.

I just feel terrible for my friend because I know she’s going to get hurt and I know it would kill her if she knew how abusive this was and I feel terrible for the horse. I would never consider giving an acquaintance unsolicited advice on their horse but this girl is a really good friend and she’s had my back in horse related issues and non horse related issues so I just feel terrible not doing anything.

#5

From your first post, it sounds like you told her all this once or more than once. And she isn’t listening. So you’ve done what you can.

You can’t do anything. Moreover she is not your responsibility. She is on her own journey with horses and will make mistakes and discoveries on her own time. If she’s gone through 8 barns in 2 years then she is likely a difficult barn client. Anyhow, her success or failure or getting hurt or her horse’s health are not your responsibility unless she asks for your advice.

You should not “feel terrible” in the sense of feeling responsible and guilty about the fact that your friend does not want to take your advice.

You need to disengage. Not your monkeys, not your circus, as they say.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

13 Likes
#6

I wouldn’t say I’ve told her this… I tiptoe around things subtly but I’m too scared to sit her down and be like “hey as a friend I’m telling you this is a terrible management for your animal and it’s unhealthy and unsafe for both of you.” I think I was just kind of having doubts about whether or not I should keep biting my tongue or if I need to be honest.

And you’re right she is a difficult barn client because she just doesn’t know enough to know what’s normal and what’s not… like she’ll be upset about her horse not being blanketed when it’s “x” temperature when in reality the horse doesn’t need to be blanketed at that temp. Or if her horse has superficial scrapes she’ll freak out that the BO didn’t notify her… when in reality they’re so minor that I wouldn’t expect anyone to even notice it let alone notify her. In her head those things are a huge deal and she’ll get very worked up and go to me and say “can you believe BO wouldn’t blanket Dobbins!!!” (when it was sunny and 60 degrees)” Exaggeration, but you get the idea.

But you’re right. Maybe I just needed to get this of my chest. I guess I feel bad because I’m more experienced so I feel some sort of obligation to try to help her out… but you’re right. It’s not my place. Thank you for the reassurance.

1 Like
#7

We (general) can not learn if no one is willing to step up and teach us. And we do not know what we do not know.

Here is her problem, she sees horses doing find in this type of boarding situation and that is because those horses are in regular work so their need for exercise is being fulfilled by riding (or lunging or whatever they do). She has not put two and two together and no one has said “Dobbin’s problem is he is not getting enough exercise. If he lives in a stall with no turn out he has to be worked every day”.

No need to say that stalls are abusive (because they are not). No need to tell her she is a bad horse owner.
Just be a good friend and simply give her some polite facts.

Suzie, The reason Dobbin has been acting up on your weekend trail rides is because he is not getting enough other exercise. Have you considered boarding at a barn (if you know a great place insert the name here) that offers all day turn out so Dobbin can then be more relaxed for your rides but also in better shape because he is able to move around all day? The really nice show barns with no turn out only work well for horses who get ridden every day. It will be better for all aspects of Dobbin’s life if he can move around more than he does now.

You might also want to add that the fancy barns with a big indoor are probably more expensive and she is paying for things she is not going to ever use. Maybe give her some names of great barns with lots of turn out so she has a base point. If she wants periodic lessons, find one of these barns that has a trainer come in.

19 Likes
#8

I’d be blunt. Although I wouldn’t say “terrible and abusive” because it’s not abusive, really. It’s just highly unnatural. Like keeping a dog in a small kennel 24/7. Maybe use that comparison. Does she have a dog?

20 Likes
#9

Sounds like you have not told her what you really think, trying not to butt into someone else’s business?
She can’t read your mind.
Maybe next time she brings up her horse problems, try to address those head on.
How to do that politely?
That depends on how she responds to hearing other’s opinions of what she does.
Some people listen, others bristle.
Maybe the reason you have not followed thru with that conversation is because she is a bristle first type and are afraid of that impacting your friendship?
Think beforehand what you want to say, called “preparing a social story”.
Have several ways to bring this up, depending on what response you get.

Since this seems to you to be a serious horse management problem, saying something is really in the best interest of the horse, even if it is not your horse.
Think how serious this may be and speak up for the horse’s sake, if you think is that important.

Speaking up about a perceived problem a friend has, well, that is what friends do, how friends help friends, so don’t feel awkward about doing it.
If you speak up and she makes it clear it is none of your business, well, then back off and leave it be.
That may be why you have not follow thru with such conversations, when those came up?

You may find that, once a question has been raised in her mind, she herself may come up with changing what she is doing that is not working.
At least that could be a good start.

7 Likes
#10

I’m on team disengage.

#11

This is kind of where I’m at. I’ve sent her names of loads of places with turnout options and offered to go with her to check places out. She really won’t entertain places where her horse would be turned out. I think her idea of excellent care is her horse living in a nice cozy stall with food, water, and floofy bedding. I think people make that mistake because it sounds comfy and cozy to us as humans but horses are obviously very different.

Also places where her horse would be out 24/7 or even in a larger paddock instead of a stall are cheaper so I think she is associating more money with better care. She knows I don’t stall my horse so I think she just thinks that this is just my “personal view” and not just standard horse keeping 101 that horses need some combo of exercise/ work/ turnout.

I just don’t know how to get it across to her that this is not the case. I know she just wants the best for her horse but she’s making some really terrible decisions and doesn’t have a trainer or anyone else to tell her what she’s doing wrong. And it’s not just this situation, I have to bite my tongue on plenty of stuff. This one is just getting to the point where my tongue is bleeding from biting it.

1 Like
#12

I understand your frustration, but 100% agree with the “disengage” advice. Use the time you have tried to educate your friend to make a new friend or spend it with your horse. Sadly (for me) my former friend of 30+ years gradually seemed to forget what she knew about horses and management --at one point she managed a large stable with 20 or more horses and many employees and volunteers. She competed and rode dressage at a high level. These days, though, she has two horses and seems to have forgotten basic horse care ----when I noticed her horse needed a trim, she said, “I think twice a year is good.” I asked her to have her Coggins on hand when we hauled to a park over state lines --her reply, “That’s just a way for vets to make more money.” When she wanted to attend the Blessing of the Hounds with me, I asked her to wash and braid the horse she was using (one of mine) --she said she “never bathed horses” and “didn’t know how to braid,” both untrue as there are photos of her in her tack room showing upper level dressage on a clean, braided horse (twenty years ago). We are no longer friends or even acquaintances --I spent too much time trying to convince her of “my way” for horse care --she didn’t want to change --and I gave up. Her two horses live in an acre of bare ground (mud sometimes), but have good hay and water --I am sure she loves them, but her standard of care is not mine. Listen to what COTH folks are telling you --they helped me distance from this long time friend - the relationship wasn’t worth the aggravation. And in hindsight, it was a pretty one-sided friendship.

10 Likes
#13

so you haven’t really bitten that tongue very hard. You’ve shared your opinion. You even note that she knows you don’t stall your horse, and believe in something different than she does. Basically, you want to change the mind of someone who wants a fancy place, and keep their horse stalled more often than turned out. There is a LOT of people who will choose this for their horse too. :frowning: but you HAVE shared your opinions that its not the best in your eyes. I think thats PERFECTLY understood by her. What more can you do (or now its in the ‘or SHOULD do’ camp) ----- you’ve shared it with her already.

3 Likes
#14

Your posts make it seem like you are assuming all kinds of things and have had very little actual conversation with this person you call a friend.

If this person is your friend - freaking talk to them.

You are allowed to not agree with your friends and still have conversations with them. You do not have to walk away and make them not a friend. But really, why assume things when you can just ask.

Suzy, is there a reason you do not want Dobbin to get any turn out? And then listen to the whole answer. Not what you think she is saying, the whole answer. Then you can help her move forward with either new knowledge or figuring out what is best for Dobbin (maybe Dobbin has a founder history and can not do grass turn out, or… ). Maybe Dobbin needs a half leaser who can ride Dobbin during the week?

17 Likes
#15

She does, good point. I do think it’s hard for people to make that connection though. If you leave a dog in a kennel all day that dog will most likely be ballistic, and barking and whining itching to get out. Horses however, I find cope differently and internalize stress a little more and I think because people don’t see it, they assume it’s not a problem. I just feel that’s what’s going on with this friend.

1 Like
#16

Thank you, I need the reassurance. It’s frustrating because she’s actually a very proactive horse owner. She will not hesitate to make vet / chiropractor appointments over the slightest injury. Her horse’s feet are always done on time and keeps all 4 shoes on despite only riding once or twice a month.

And it’s definitely not a one sided friendship. She trailered MY colicing horse in the middle of the night to the hospital with zero hesitation. She’s a good friend, if she wasn’t I wouldn’t be this conflicted.

#17

I guess at this point I would make one final stab at influencing her. The next time she brings up issues with Dobbin, I would say something like “I have to say, from my point of view the management style at the barn just doesnt meet Dobbin’s needs. If he doesnt get ridden several times a week, I think it is really difficult for him to stay in a stall all the time. I have to believe he would be much happier and easier to manage if he had a field to run in or perhaps someone to exercise him during the week when you cant. I hope you will consider this.”
Then I know that I have made my position clear. If she chooses to change nothing, you have done what you can and perhaps can rest easier saying nothing in the future.

12 Likes
#18

If she’s as good a friend as you say, then this: “hey as a friend I’m telling you this is a terrible management for your animal and it’s unhealthy and unsafe for both of you.”

And everything trubandloki has said.

Get on with it or disengage. (But for the sake of the horse, get on with it). She must know it’s not normal to change barns eight times in two years…?

12 Likes
#19

I would disengage. If you have shared your opinion and she has chosen not to heed your advice, there’s really not all that much you can do. My horses are out 24/7, and that’s how I take care of my horses. I have friends who just stall at fancy facilities, and some of them with little to no turnout and very little exercise…when one of those friends complained about her horse having too much energy, I shared my opinion, nothing changed, I never brought it up again. I also have friends who do not care for their horses like I do at all…basic things like farrier every 6 weeks, shots yearly, grooming, etc. For me, it would be substandard care. But for those friends, they don’t see it that way. Their horses look decent, they are well fed and loved, and while they aren’t cared for the way I care for my horses, ultimately they aren’t mine and the decisions about their care is up to their owners. I know how hard it can be to step back though! Especially when you realize they are making choices without having the knowledge to make better choices. But there is a saying…you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. The same applies to people :yes:.

6 Likes
#20

if she’s on her 7-8th barn in 2 years, all of those with limited turnout - I’m wondering if all those barns operate that way in the area or if it’s truly your friend. It sounds as though you live relatively close to each other why not offer to accompany her on some of the barn tours…

2 Likes

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