To insure or not to Inusre

[Bugs_s_Mom]

I recently lost my boy to cancer and the bills are stacked. I am not ready to begin the search for another horse BUT I am a planner and have started to form a budget for when my heart can open again (I have to keep busy with something). I did not have Bugs insured as he was just a pleasure horse and my first horse. Knowing now what I didn’t back then I am wondering if that was a mistake.

I know enough to be dangerous about human insurance having worked in clinic previously but know nothing about equine insurance. I started looking at some sites and my head is spinning! Those of you that insure your horses what kind of coverage do you have? If you are in NC do you mind sharing an approximate monthly rate? What loop holes do I need to think about? What questions do I need to ask myself before I make a decision to budget insurance into my plan?

When I do begin looking for my next love they will not venture off property often but may when and if I get a trailer. I don’t intend to show so this will be another pleasure horse and my only horse. My wallet does not run deep currently so I need to think about this a little more logically for the future. I regret none of what I have spent and am still paying for Bugs but I cannot spend that money again in the near future on another horse.

I know I threw a lot out there and if there is a thread already going about this please direct me and delete mine. I did a COTH search and did not see one, then again I don’t always find things when I search.

Thank you!

[Scribbler]

There are apparently some medical insurance plans for low dollar horses in the USA ( according to previous threads on this topic) but usually it’s unusual for someone to insure a horse that is worth under $10,000 because the insurers won’t pay more than replacement cost in medical bills.

It’s more like collision coverage on your car rather than human medical insurance.

[Bugs_s_Mom]

@Scribbler

There are apparently some medical insurance plans for low dollar horses in the USA ( according to previous threads on this topic) but usually it’s unusual for someone to insure a horse that is worth under $10,000 because the insurers won’t pay more than replacement cost in medical bills.

It’s more like collision coverage on your car rather than human medical insurance.

Thank you! That is what I was kind of trying to understand. I can assure you my budget will be nowhere near $10k so a really strong savings account might be my best insurance plan. If all they pay is replacement cost, then I ate through that in three bills with Bugs so it certainly isn’t feasible to do with another horse.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Bugs's Mom

I know enough to be dangerous about human insurance having worked in clinic previously but know nothing about equine insurance.

In a nutshell, human healthcare insurance is nothing like equine “insurance”. Equine insurance coverage is based on the value of the horse (ie, can’t get $100k medical coverage on a $1k horse). Typically, once insurance does pay out on something, that ‘something’ is often excluded for some period of years afterwards (colic treatment? ok but now we’ll exclude colic for 5 years.)

You are looking at medical coverage and ‘mortality’; insurance may pay ‘replacement’ if the horse is put down. Loss of Use is not common for a lower value horse. You do get the final say in a euthanization case but if your decision is contrary to insurance, you may not get imbursed.

All of this is IIRC.

I’d definitely consider starting a health care savings account over insurance but talk to a few companies and find out what is covered and what isn’t remembering that it isn’t like human health care insurance.

{{Bug’s Mom}} going forward.

[Bugs_s_Mom]

@Where'sMyWhite

In a nutshell, human healthcare insurance is nothing like equine “insurance”. Equine insurance coverage is based on the value of the horse (ie, can’t get $100k medical coverage on a $1k horse). Typically, once insurance does pay out on something, that ‘something’ is often excluded for some period of years afterwards (colic treatment? ok but now we’ll exclude colic for 5 years.)

You are looking at medical coverage and ‘mortality’; insurance may pay ‘replacement’ if the horse is put down. Loss of Use is not common for a lower value horse. You do get the final say in a euthanization case but if your decision is contrary to insurance, you may not get imbursed.

All of this is IIRC.

I’d definitely consider starting a health care savings account over insurance but talk to a few companies and find out what is covered and what isn’t remembering that it isn’t like human health care insurance.

{{Bug’s Mom}} going forward.

Thank you! I think based on my budget and the information I have found online a savings account will be best. In Bugs’ case insurance would have only paid out $600 then I would have had to pay the several thousand we incurred on top of that anyway. To me it isn’t worth the premiums.

[Kyrabee]

I chose to self insure many years ago. I want control of my horse and her treatment. I have seen the insurance company dictate treatment and drag things out to the detriment of the horse. My own experience was with my new to me 2 y.o. Of course she was always into something. Nothing but minor stuff and it was always reported to the insurance and I made no claims. I think after they excluded all the affected body parts, I think all they covered was her eyes, tail and right front leg. I had no recourse and no chance to get a vet exam. I dropped the insurance. In all the years I have had horses that were insured (20 years?) I think I made one claim for $465.

I have been lucky to have a good paying job and started putting at least a couple hundred a month in a dedicated savings account. Luckily, the horse has remained healthy and the savings account soon grew to a significant amount. I board. What someone that has their own property and can walk out the door to deal with an injury or illness multiple times/day, I cannot. I could certainly do rehab board for a short time…2-3 months but I don’t think I could keep it up long term. So, I cover myself with a good amount of $$ in the bank. Enough that I don’t have to make a middle of the night snap decision based on money. I am very comfortable with that. I don’t plan on replacing this horse. I recently retired and have decided that she (currently 17, sound and healthy) will be the last one that I own. When she is gone, if I want to continue riding, I will find a lease situation.

That is what has worked for me :).

Susan

[Bugs_s_Mom]

Susan,

Thank you for your insight. I would be devastated to not be able to make my own decisions concerning my horse’s care. My pockets aren’t deep and I board (or will again) so treatment all hours of the day isn’t an option but was prepared to send Bug to rehab at the vet clinic (never made it that far). I do think the peace of mind I had from being in complete control of his care was priceless. We didn’t get the outcome we had hoped for but I know he was not subjected to pain and suffering because a procedure wasn’t covered or sanctioned by insurance.

[Janet_Conway]

Bug’s Mom, I believe care credit covers horses.

[Bugs_s_Mom]

@Janet Conway

Bug’s Mom, I believe care credit covers horses.

They do. At least I know my equine vet and the vet school both accept it for procedures. The money would still have to come from somewhere but it can be used for horse related expenses. I will likely look into it the next time I have a large vet bill.

[ZELLA]

It sounds like you plan someday to buy a modestly priced horse, and there are insurance plans that can provide decent options for you. You should ask yourself how you’d respond to a potentially expensive medical situation; for instance, if you have your own reasons for never wanting to put a horse through colic surgery, then insuring is probably not a good choice. If an insured horse’s vet says the animal has a good chance to recover with surgery, but you opt to not do this and instead euthanize the horse, the insurer will likely not pay a death claim due to there being a viable treatment option. That likely would be the case whether or not you had medical coverage in addition to mortality on your policy.

However, if you think you would go to a great extent to save the horse’s life or correct an unsoundness, I’d recommend you get insurance with some level of medical coverage. After all, the horse doesn’t know how valuable he is, and horses in every price range can rack up thousands in vet bills from eye injuries, lacerations, colic, fevers, etc. etc. etc.

Below an insured value of $7,500, medical options are somewhat limited. The cost will vary, but sometimes a more expensive premium has additional coverage that’s worth it, when you compare the deductible and various limitations. You’ll want to explore whether there are co-pays, sub-limits, and coverage caps for treatment of lameness or ulcers. Also be aware of what diagnostics coverage is offered. While the medical choices out there vary, most mortality plans are similar, and most of them include a small free allowance toward colic surgery. Good luck!

[Bugs_s_Mom]

Zella, I plan to buy a $2-3k horse, maybe less if I can find one in that price range. I would not do colic surgery so insurance likely is not right for me.

I fully agree they do not know their value! I paid $1,000 for Bugs and spent will over $5,000 before we lost him. I would do it all again in a heartbeat but I think staying self insured is my best bet.

Thank you for your insight.

[SolarFlare]

@Kyrabee

I chose to self insure many years ago. I want control of my horse and her treatment. I have seen the insurance company dictate treatment and drag things out to the detriment of the horse. My own experience was with my new to me 2 y.o. Of course she was always into something. Nothing but minor stuff and it was always reported to the insurance and I made no claims. I think after they excluded all the affected body parts, I think all they covered was her eyes, tail and right front leg. I had no recourse and no chance to get a vet exam. I dropped the insurance. In all the years I have had horses that were insured (20 years?) I think I made one claim for $465.

I have been lucky to have a good paying job and started putting at least a couple hundred a month in a dedicated savings account. Luckily, the horse has remained healthy and the savings account soon grew to a significant amount. I board. What someone that has their own property and can walk out the door to deal with an injury or illness multiple times/day, I cannot. I could certainly do rehab board for a short time…2-3 months but I don’t think I could keep it up long term. So, I cover myself with a good amount of $$ in the bank. Enough that I don’t have to make a middle of the night snap decision based on money. I am very comfortable with that. I don’t plan on replacing this horse. I recently retired and have decided that she (currently 17, sound and healthy) will be the last one that I own. When she is gone, if I want to continue riding, I will find a lease situation.

That is what has worked for me :).

Susan

This is exactly what I did. My former horse was insured for a year (maybe two?) then I dropped it after a friend had experience trying to make a claim. We learned a lot of interesting things, such as that the insurance company can “force” you to continue medical treatment, rather than euthanasia (“force” in the sense that they will refuse to pay out your mortality). Even if your major medical coverage has topped out, they will not pay you if you decide to euthanize (due to financial reasons, or even if treatments don’t have good probable outcomes). As long as there are medical treatments left, you’ll be told you must pay for them out of pocket before they’ll “allow” you to euthanize and be paid out.

My friend was put in a terrible position of having to get multiple vets to agree the horse should be put down, then still had to fight with the insurance company to get her mortality paid out after it was done.

I thought about it again a few years ago with my current horse, but then I thought about what vet appointments I’d had, and what insurance would have covered. Turns out, not much at all. I’d still be out of pocket most of it.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@SolarFlare

We learned a lot of interesting things, such as that the insurance company can “force” you to continue medical treatment, rather than euthanasia (“force” in the sense that they will refuse to pay out your mortality).

This is important to keep in mind. The insurance company cannot “force” you to do anything. You still have the choice on what treatment or not and euthanasia or not; the insurance company may not choose to pay out on the treatment or mortality.

With the budget you are thinking of, I’d self-insure, saving money to pay for whatever treatment you decide. You’ve already had to deal with tough financial and health decisions once, now you know how you want to factor in expenses and where you might want to draw the line.

My mare who was not covered totally would have blown any insurance costs as I didn’t pay near what I paid in colic surgery and post-surgery care. But, once we struggled over the hump, I had another 10+ years with her. As you know, much of it is what the horse is telling you.

Let us know when you decide to start your new horse search

[Kyrabee]

Solar Flare…that is exactly the experience my BFF had with her gelding. This was years ago when MRI was just becoming viable for horses. He came back from the starting trainer lame and did not improve. Localized to the foot but it wasn’t a bony issue. The local vet set him up with a study at WSU that would pay for the MRI but she had to ship him to Pullman (600 mile round trip).
He had torn BOTH impar ligaments in his front feet. A big strapping young WB. The left was torn 3/4 of the way across and the right about 1/2 way across. What chance of becoming sound do you think he had?

The insurance wanted her to try therapeutic shoes (they tried 2 or 3 types). None of them helped. I think they injected his coffin joints. It didn’t help. She wanted to euthanize and kicks herself for not telling the insurance company where to go. Eventually he was nerved (per insurance co recommendation) then ended up really lame as he initially felt better and tore around like a freak…he was a 5 y.o. that hadn’t felt that good in over a year. I would guess he finished the job on the left foot. As it was, things managed to drag out over a year then the insurance didn’t pay the mortality anyway. The insurance paid over $10,000 in MM on a horse with a $6500 mortality rider. Not long after, the vet from WSU called her (they received his legs post mortem to follow up on the study) and told her that they had learned that nerving was not recommended for this problem. She felt in her gut that he needed to be euthanized shortly after the diagnosis and like I said, was very upset that she hadn’t done it then. But, crap, you want to think in a young horse that something might work so you try what the insurance Co will cover. She ended up spending a lot of money (shipping and deductibles) and not getting the mortality payment anyway. Everyone (horse, insurance co and herself) would have been better off is she had gone with her gut. She felt pressured by the insurance co and kept asking them to approve the euthanasia sooner than later. That didn’t happen. She learned her lesson to advocate for the horse despite what the insurance co says or wants.

Susan

[ElementFarm]

OP, I can confirm, Care Credit covers horse vet bills. I’ve used it a few times for “big” bills.

I self-insure: I have 8-10 horses at any given time, and the cost to carry insurance on all individually would be insane. I have a monthly amount that goes into my ‘vet’ account. If I have a bad month and get multiple injuries/colic/etc that exceed what was accrued, I’ll use care credit. My current horses are all in the 10-20K range, value wise. If I had a 45K horse, you betcha it would be insured. In the past, my higher valued horse(s) were insured. And several times I was glad I did, as it allowed diagnostics and treatments I wouldn’t have been able to or willing to pay out of pocket.

note: when I’ve leased horses out, insurance was always required per lease agreement. There have been several instances where that was critical.

[Bugs_s_Mom]

@Where'sMyWhite

This is important to keep in mind. The insurance company cannot “force” you to do anything. You still have the choice on what treatment or not and euthanasia or not; the insurance company may not choose to pay out on the treatment or mortality.

With the budget you are thinking of, I’d self-insure, saving money to pay for whatever treatment you decide. You’ve already had to deal with tough financial and health decisions once, now you know how you want to factor in expenses and where you might want to draw the line.

My mare who was not covered totally would have blown any insurance costs as I didn’t pay near what I paid in colic surgery and post-surgery care. But, once we struggled over the hump, I had another 10+ years with her. As you know, much of it is what the horse is telling you.

Let us know when you decide to start your new horse search

Yes, having just gone through everything with Bugs (drug out over a year) I know where I will draw the line. Colic surgery for me, is the line I won’t cross. I am already starting to think about how to budget for surprise bills and am certainly factoring all of that into my budget. I am still paying for my current bills so that is forcing me to be very budget conscious.

I will certainly share when the search begins, who doesn’t love to horse shop vicariously? I know I always did through my friends.

[Bugs_s_Mom]

@ElementFarm

OP, I can confirm, Care Credit covers horse vet bills. I’ve used it a few times for “big” bills.

I self-insure: I have 8-10 horses at any given time, and the cost to carry insurance on all individually would be insane. I have a monthly amount that goes into my ‘vet’ account. If I have a bad month and get multiple injuries/colic/etc that exceed what was accrued, I’ll use care credit. My current horses are all in the 10-20K range, value wise. If I had a 45K horse, you betcha it would be insured. In the past, my higher valued horse(s) were insured. And several times I was glad I did, as it allowed diagnostics and treatments I wouldn’t have been able to or willing to pay out of pocket.

note: when I’ve leased horses out, insurance was always required per lease agreement. There have been several instances where that was critical.

I will likely look into Care Credit when I get my next horse. Well when I get the first big bill as they usually do introductory “deals”.

[ElementFarm]

@Bugs's Mom

I will likely look into Care Credit when I get my next horse. Well when I get the first big bill as they usually do introductory “deals”.

Don’t wait till you get the first big bill! If you’re heading to the state university clinic for something serious, Murphy and his damned law will ensure it’s in the wee hours of the night or a holiday weekend, and you may not be able to get approved instantaneously. (and those places often require an upfront payment to admit the horse). When you pick up your new horse (and you must come back here with pictures!) might be a good time to take that plunge.

Also, as far as I know, CC doesn’t have any intro deals, but they do have 2-3 options with varying interest rates depending on how quickly you pay off the balance.

[Bugs_s_Mom]

@ElementFarm

Don’t wait till you get the first big bill! If you’re heading to the state university clinic for something serious, Murphy and his damned law will ensure it’s in the wee hours of the night or a holiday weekend, and you may not be able to get approved instantaneously. (and those places often require an upfront payment to admit the horse). When you pick up your new horse (and you must come back here with pictures!) might be a good time to take that plunge.

Also, as far as I know, CC doesn’t have any intro deals, but they do have 2-3 options with varying interest rates depending on how quickly you pay off the balance.

Some of information on their website mentions “promotional financing”. Supposedly if the charge qualifies you can pay it interest free for a period of time. Not arguing with you as you likely know more than I do about this, just clarifying why I said what I did

Don’t worry, when I find my next partner in crime I will return with pictures and updates! Bugs was far too recently lost to really begin my search but I do like to be as prepared as I can for things. As we all know, you can only be so prepared with horses. :lol:

[ZELLA]

Insurance companies typically agree to mortality settlement for covered conditions if the horse meets AAEP criteria for humane destruction:
https://aaep.org/euthanasia-guidelines

If your vet won’t tell the insurer plainly that the horse meets one or more of these guidelines, then the insurance contract can’t respond. Note the owner’s economic hardship isn’t listed.