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To stall or not to stall? Options for my pole barn

Around The Farm
#1

After years of dreaming and sacrificing and planning, my husband and I finally bought our 26 acre hobby farm last year. It came with a fairly decent house and a pole barn attached to one of the two 2.5 acre fenced pastures (sadly, fenced with barbed wire, so we are in the process of taking the wire down and will replace with Electrobraid or similar on the existing fence posts).

Since the pole barn is attached to one of the pastures, my options are to either leave one half of the barn open as a run-in shelter and cross fence the pasture to make a dry lot next to this part of the barn, or we can build stalls inside the pole barn. We can probably fit 3 or 4 10x10 stalls easily all on one side of the barn since it’s too narrow for a center aisle configuration, with room for a feed/tack room on one end. If we go up to 12 foot stalls then probably not more than 3 stalls would fit. I currently don’t plan to have more than 3-4 horses at a time, but you know how that goes.

From an ease of caretaking standpoint, the run-in shelter idea sounds better. The horses would live out all the time, so would minimize cleaning and turnout chores. Hubby and I both work full time, so streamlining the horse care chores is probably important. We do also have two boys who can help (especially if they want to earn the money they are always asking for).

From a security and comfort standpoint, having stalls sounds like the better option, especially in our 30 below temps that we can get in the winter (oh and we’re on top of a ridge so we get brutal winds, also). Maybe I should mention that I would like to buy an OTTB or two for retraining, so that might be a factor in whether the horses can or should live out 24/7/365. I know there are lots of TBs who live outside just fine, but I know there are also hothouse flowers who have trouble keeping weight on in the best of weather, so having a snug barn to keep warm in might be better for such a horse? Then again, it will be the same barn they are standing in, whether they are in a stall or can come and go as they please if I leave it as a run-in. But if there are stalls, I can close the doors when the weather is particularly nasty.

Wish I could just go ahead and build a 10 stall barn with indoor arena, but will need to win the lottery first. Until that happens, given the two options, what would you do?

#2

the thought makes me shiver … winter in Wisconsin is down to 9 hours of daylight and then add in the negative 30 F …oh I remember the days in northern Kentucky of minis 20 with four to five feet of snow … we moved south.

But you are there. First I would plant a wind break to give the horses some pasture shelter from the wind. Even down here in Texas we put in a wind break that the horses love as they can stand in the sun while the tree line breaks the wind giving them a calm wind area

Next run water lines (with a power line to provide electricity to the water heaters )

Stalls, maybe, really depends upon how well these horses buddy up as they can huddle to collectively conserve heat

Before I did any of this I would have a meeting of all parties, might want to have this meeting in a frozen food locker and make sure ever one is on board with this project as once the horses are there it would be too late to whine

2 Likes
#3

I would go with two 10x10ft stalls and two 12x12. This will squeeze the space available for tack/feed room but you can spread some of that stuff around to various cabinets if needed. Or, just have one 12x12 stall in case you buy a giant horse, and the other three are 10s. My 15.3, 1200lb mare does just fine in her 10x10.

#4

I prefer 12x12 stalls honestly. I don’t think I’ve seen many barns around with 10x10. I guess it depends on what your horses are use to and what you use them for.

If they are going to be in pasture most of the time I’d just leave an open run in.

I threw two California OTTBs into 20 acres, our only shelter is by the creek under trees if they huddle down. Everyone’s learned how to grow a winter coat.

#5

Leave as a run in, but buy a front and side 12ft prefab from tarter or a place like that so you can set up a stall on one side if you ever have an emergency and one has to be stalled asap. Also, where will you store hay?

2 Likes
#6

Ditto @clanter except there would be no doubt I would put some stalls in. And good sized stalls if you are thinking of retraining OTTBs.

I have big Walking Horses. Their stalls are 12 X 14. They have a nice amount of room but I would have made the stalls 14 x 14 had the barn been able to be set up different.

Don’t forget kick boards in the stalls - hardwood they can’t kick thru - a major PITA to install but hardwood will last forever:)

That’s it for me, my fingers are cold just visualizing life on a ridge in Western WI. I retired south from PA to get away from the cold, which was nothing compared to your area. I respectfully tip my hat to you:)

#7

If you don’t have stalls, some day you will wish you had them. At some point (or daily) you will like having stalls to lock horses in one place to feed them, groom, feed medication, treat for one or more injury, hold separately for farrier/vet visit, keep them out of the paddock/pasture while you do chores, etc. Without stalls you will always have a herd situation, which is terrible when you really need to catch/separate them for some reason.

My stalls open to the outside and inside of the barn - dutch doors on the outside and regular sliding doors to the aisle. They are used as run-ins most of the time, but can be closed. They horses don’t share except my older TB and a pony, but horses that like each other might.

Mine are only 10x10. The barn was built that way and they are smaller than ideal, but large enough for my purposes. If the horses would be stalled more often (e.g. overnight on a regular basis) I would like them 12x12. If I were building a new barn, I would build them that size.

1 Like
#8

Sounds like you don’t have to decide right now, you can leave most of the space open first, then add stalls later if you need them.
Use portable stalls, may cost more up front, but you can change them around, only put them out if needed, most important, change easily any you need, like making one double, etc.

If you think you may need a stall or two up front, do that, leave the rest open for now if you can.

The reality is that you don’t yet know what you need until you are operating the barn and see what kind of horses you get and what their needs are.

Taking care of horses where is so cold is hard under the best management, even harder if you have to learn on the go what will work for your situation.
As Clanter already touched on, your water situation in the real cold where you are is probably what will make or break your patience, so be very proactive to have that solved, where you know you will have a reliable, suitable water situation.

We built an overhang to our old Quonset barn, 40’ x 80’.
We have half of it, 40’ as a run in shed, the other divided into three spaces, one a single horse run in and two stalls, all about 14’ x 14’.
We use that extra run in to start new horses before turning them out with the others.
We have yet to use a stall itself in many years.
Up to five horses, mostly three or four, have been all fine run together or if one fights too much, we didn’t keep him.

There are so many ways you may decide to manage your horses, I would suggest whatever you do, to make it flexible, so you can take and add stalls as you see the need, not build something permanent you then may have to tear down if you decide your needs changed.
Todays portable horse stall panels come in all kinds and sizes, perfect for stables like yours, that want to be able to accommodate different needs at different times.

#9

As a veteran of 9 years of WI winters in Milwaukee and just north, you have my admiration…and sympathy…in undertaking your project. The “Land of Nine Months of Winter and Three Months of Poor Sledding” is no longer a favorite venue of mine! :wink:

But, you are there so you have to figure out effective strategies. The horse is a creature of the sort grass steppe and has a neutral heat budget between about 15F and 65F. Outside those numbers you have to be able to give the horse some “help.”

The first help would be wind breaks. Wind is the true enemy in cold climates. It removes the heat the horse (or anything else warm blooded) generates. Cut that loss and you improve quality of life. This argues for keep your existing structure with ease of access and open enough to that a couple of horses can shelter from the wind and not scrap with each other. Filling it up with stalls might seriously compromise that goal. It also argues for some sort of “rug” for the horse. Maybe a “windbreaker” level is all you’ll need; maybe more. It will depend on the horse. OTTBs can range from hardy creatures to “hot house plants.” You’ll have to either develop a good eye for what kind of horse you’re dealing with or plan for each kind.

Horses generate heat by movement. Keeping them confined in a 12 x 12 “closet” might be counterproductive. Or lead to stall vices like pacing. This may well argue for a “run in” with any stall so the horse can move around.

They also generate heat by eating hay. This means you need to have a storage and distribution plan. Run in shed with a round bale feeder some distance away would provide both kinds of “natural heat.”

Lots of hay consumption means, (A) lots of manure and (B) high water consumption. Keep this in mind as you consider build out options.

When I lived in Ozaukee County most of my dairy farmer neighbors built the “Caca Range”, a series of large manure piles over the winter months. As soon as it started to thaw in spring the spreaders came out and the air got a certain “tinge” to it if the day were truly warm. Just another joy of country living! :slight_smile: This also means you will have to figure out what to do with the “poopsickles” that your horses will generate at the rate of 30-50 lbs/day, each.

You’ve got some problems to solve but you have a few months to get them worked out.

If you have not already done so then get Cherry Hill’s most excellent book Horsekeeping on Small Acreage. You can find it on Amazon. It’s general but will give you good ideas on layout. Also, get with your County Agent. If you are mostly in cow country they will not be all that much direct help except maybe with grass and hay issues. And maybe manure management. But they can get you to other resources that will address the specifics of cold weather horsekeeping.

You have some time; use it well. And good luck as you go forward! :wink:

G.

2 Likes
#10

I must say we are the encouraging lot aren’t we :lol:

I guess my view is tainted from reading the Little House series The Little House in the Big Woods which took place in Wisconsin

The snow kept coming till it was drifted and banked against the house. In the mornings the window panes were covered with frost in beautiful pictures of trees and flowers and fairies.

but this is what we were faced with last March when picking up a horse between blizzards, admittedly this is in North Dakota …but…they had snow until early May
[ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:“Click image for larger version Name: 53673338_2212609595465158_1076125642518429696_o.jpg Views: 7 Size: 8.5 KB ID: 10654180”,“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“10654180”,“data-size”:“full”}[/ATTACH]

My concern is both husband and wife have full time jobs elsewhere… and then there will be horses to care for… water frozen, stalls to clean … it can be done but this really needs to be thought out before hand rather than Oh it would be wonderful …

53673338_2212609595465158_1076125642518429696_o.jpg

2 Likes
#11

Waving from across the lake! Not as cold here, but lots of snow and the same issues. As the others have said, run-in PLUS at least one (portable?) stall for emergencies. Bury those waterlines DEEP and drop in a second empty line as long as the ditch is open. It’s a cheap backup. What others haven’t mentioned is installing good lights and lots of them. It is dark often and long. I have some good lights outside on switches, and loads of great lights inside on various zones. My water tank with an electric heater installed in the bottom drain plug is tucked into a corner of my run-in. A new pony decided he preferred to stand with his butt too close to it… but I rolled a big chunk of cedar utility pole close to the tank and it forces him to stand back a ways. I feed round bales every ten days or so (pick them up at a nearby farm) and store about 100 square bales inside for those blustery days when no one wants to venture out. Also for those fall/spring days of soaking cold rain, which is way worse than a little snow and cold. Good luck, don’t let those other sissies dissuade you. We have fresh water, reasonable summer temperatures, and a good growing season. :wink:

2 Likes
#12

If possible, have a 2nd, backup hydrant that can serve your winter turnout. Inevitably, there will be a day that you forget to drain a hose or something similarly dumb, which causes your hydrant to freeze. A couple winters ago, after some consecutive days of 20-below, when I tried to raise the handle, the nut that secures the handle to the riser cracked. Frozen hydrants can be fixed with a blowtorch (or more than once I’ve rigged up a tent around the hydrant with a hairdryer inside, and leave it running for several hours-- a poor man’s (slow!) blowtorch :lol:) ) But it’s a real lifesaver to have a backup, so you are not out there with a blowtorch at 9pm or hauling buckets from afar. Water supply problems cause absolute misery in a harsh winter, so it’s worth a belt and suspenders approach.

Frozen manure: a soft sandy surface in the run-in will help prevent it from freezing to the ground, so at least you can pick it up. Forget about using the manure spreader–the frozen poop is like putting a load of rocks through it, Just pile it somewhere and deal with it in the spring.

Plan out good blanket storage-- they take up a lot of space, and it’s frustrating to squish them into / out of a tight space. One one of my walls, I have two rows of 2x4s set about 6" out from the wall-- plenty of room to drape a folded blanket over the bar without a struggle. Having a space where you can spread out or hang wet blankets to dry is nice to have, too. I actually end up blanketing more frequently during the cold midwest spring/fall rains, rather than the dead of winter when the air is bone-dry and they’ve got wooly mammoth coats.

I’m not as far north as you (central IA) but can attest to the challenges of a tough winter. But if you have good winter gear and a good barnyard layout , it’s really not that bad.

#13

and there are over 30 species of blood feeding deer flies (Chrysops) and horse flies (Tabanus, Hybomitra) found inWisconsin…and all know how to chew your arm off :lol:

yes every place (well most places) have pluses and minuses that one has to adjust to and often become comfortable with without a problem

1 Like
#14

WRT stalls, can you do 10 x 12?

#15

If the open end of your barn will face away from prevailing winds, then use as a run-in would be my choice,

I kind of did the same by default: built a 36X36 center aisle pole barn placing 2 12X12 stalls opening to the rear on the East wall - wind here generally comes from the West.
But learn from my Fail & add an overhang - at least 12’ out from the barn - the rare East wind here blows into my stalls, rain & snow with it. Not enough to make them unusable, just enough to make work for me clearing what got in.

I store a year’s worth of hay - small squares - stacked on pallets across from the stalls, takes up the same space as the 2 stalls: 12DX24W.
Still have enough room for feed prep & tack storage areas & a 12’ aisle.
I also keep the mini’s Easy Entry wire cart in there.

My barn is centered in & surrounded at the front by my sacrifice paddock - roughly 50X200 - paddock opens to pasture on either side.
Gates can close off either field.

I leave the Dutch doors at the back of the stalls open year-round, so horses treat them like a run-in.
I am on my 3rd set of geldings (in 16yrs) & there is no problem with sharing stall space.
Often I find all 3 in a single stall.
Herd is now 16h TWH, 13h Hackney Pony & a mini,
Mini came 4yrs ago & friends added a 12X10 stall for him with an opening at the back small enough so only he can get in.
Mini has decided he is happiest sharing hay with the Walker, who - being my herdboss - tolerates him.
They come in on their own for grain & hay, separating into “their” stalls, then go out to pasture.

I installed a frostfree hydrant inside my barn,
When temps go below 40 I remove the hose & water by bucket brigade - doable with just 3 here.
My trough is a foodgrade 50gal barrel just outside the front slider to the barn. Sinking de-icer keeps it unfrozen.
Heated buckets are in the stalls. As long as i have power, they have water.
Only once in all my years here was power out long enough so I had to get Dollar Store gallons to water - outage lasted 11hrs.
Thank you, NIPSCO!

Re: OTTB living out:
My TB was a failed racehorse who then ponied for 4yrs until I bought him as a 6yo.
For the next 15yrs he lived in boarding barns with varying amounts of turnout & was blanketed in Winters.
When I brought him home he adapted to 24/7 turnout & grew enough coat so I blanketed very rarely.
I am in the Midwest too & familiar with Polar Vortex & subzero windchills.
Even so, I blanket only when we have heavy snow that soaks to the skin on their backs. As soon as they are dry beneath, blankets come off.
Weather has me blanket them maybe 3 or 4 times per Winter.

I bought rainsheets, put them on just once & decided it mainly made busywork for me. They are smart enough to come in to stalls from heavy rain.
Sold 2 of the 3 sheets, last one will go to a tack swap this Fall.

#16

LOL you really don’t see much positive about Wisconsin, do you? :smiley: It’s ok. I’ve been here for 6 years now. Winters do suck. But really, it’s only January and February that are truly awful, sometimes March also. The rest of the year is tolerable to beautiful. :slight_smile: And being up on the ridge with all the wind does have the advantage of blowing away most of the pesky bugs.

2 Likes
#17

well we have our faults here, 115F gets old pretty quick…and fans just make the horses to stand in a convection oven …we have to use misting systems, water the paddocks that have turned into concrete

I grew up in northern Kentucky, the winters of the late 1970s nearly killed me, temps when down below minus 20 which froze waterlines, the backups being the streams and lakes all froze. Beating the ice out of the water buckets caused the plastic buckets to explode, had to get rubber buckets … then the following winter was the same, so we moved south.

Then the shortness of daylight just was depressing (which reminds of mud season there)

I still have family there, they just endure.

Surprisingly we have had three horses that came from breeders in North Dakota, none of these horses ever put much a winter coat on. The two we have now I read then the blizzard reports from their old homeland. The first one his winter coat was of 3/8th inch …he thought all the other horses were sissy horses

I remember when we brought our horses down from Kentucky the first winter here they started putting on the three or four inch Kentucky winter coat then shed it as soon as growing it…then never again They started just changing color to black bay

#18

Thanks for all the helpful tips and suggestions! I might not be able to respond to each one but I am reading them all and taking all into consideration. Right now I actually am leaning towards keeping the run-in and maybe putting in one or two portable stalls for grooming, holding for vet/farrier, and if someone is injured and needs stall rest. Or if someone can’t handle living outside all the time. I think that will give me the most flexibility. And if I end up not needing them as much as I thought, I can take them back down. Or if I love the stalls I can put up more.

I just went outside and measured the barn. I’ve done it before but couldn’t remember the exact measurements. It is 22 feet wide and about 80 feet long. Should be plenty long enough for 12’ stalls, but only wide enough for 10’ with a less than 12’ aisle. So 12’ x 10’ stalls should work fine.

Hay storage was going to be inside the barn, also, but hubby was talking about possibly building a shed for hay storage. I don’t like the idea of trudging through the snow to get hay to bring back to the barn, though. Was thinking of doing a loft to store the hay in the barn. The barn where I take lessons does that and it seems to work well for them.

Definitely planning on a frost-free hydrant or two…one at each end of the barn would be ideal. Inside the barn or outside??

And we absolutely will have electricity in the barn. Need electricity for bucket and tank heaters. The water and electricity will go in this summer. We just got chickens so will need to make sure they have unfrozen water this winter. Good point about needing lots of lights. It does get dark here. I’ll probably never get used to the 8:00 am sunrises in the winter. I hate that part.

We won’t have horses here until next summer at the earliest. So I do have lots of time to think about it and plan for it. I’ve had horses at home before…but that was in So Cal so the management style here is definitely different! Thankfully I’ve also been able to learn from the lesson barn how they do things. Most of their horses stay out all winter and do just fine. But they do have a nice barn with stalls when needed (and an indoor arena! I not-so-jokingly told my husband I might board in the winter months just to have access to the indoor lol)

Regarding both of us having full-time jobs… I’m actually working from home right now with the Covid-19 situation, so I’m hoping I might be able to negotiate some flexibility with continuing that once life goes back to the “new” normal, whatever that may look like. So I might be home more than I otherwise might be. Especially if the kiddos continue with distance learning in the fall/winter.

Lots to think about. Thank you! And also thanks for the laughs about how bad Wisconsin weather is. I actually love it here nine months of the year. I just have to survive those other three months lol.

#19

Oh I know what you mean about 115 degree convection oven summers. I came from the Inland Empire in California. Honestly, I much prefer the cold. There’s a lot more you can do about being cold. There’s only so many layers you can take off in the heat before it starts being illegal. Plus I always felt like I was going to pass out when I went outside in the heat.

Good point about the plastic buckets. I think I’ll make sure I have plenty of rubber buckets on hand for the cold snaps and in case we have power outages.

#20

Oh how I envy your lack of sheeting! It is 58 today and rain all darn day. My pony, even though he is slightly a chunk-a-munk, shivers in this weather, badly. My oldie needs to keep weight on, so sheets will be on this morning when I put them out. Everytime I think I can wash and reproof them and put them up, boom rain and chilly weather. Sometimes coolers at night when the sheets end up soaked bad, and it is going to rain the next 2 weeks here too!!!

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