Menu

Stay in Touch
Sign up for ENews
Subscribe Now

Unlimited access >

Menu

To the riders who had very, very tough trainers as a kid or teenager...

Hunter/Jumper
#21

Think the answers here depend on how you define " tough". There’s a difference between expecting a student to follow directions and take the whole thing seriously and a nasty, mean, abusive, sarcastic and/ or demeaning approach. IMO, all nasty, mean, sarcastic and/or demeaning trainers belong in a seperate category, not lumped in with the ones who are tough because they are passionate about getting their students to succeed.

I had tough teachers who did not want to hear a bunch of excuses and got called out for that, sent to the end of the line but it was something they knew I and the horse could do and it was never personal. Any rider making a mistake was corrected in front of the group, nobody was singled out, it was part of the class to learn by watching others mistakes. Once was kicked out of a lesson but only to brush the shavings I didn’t bother to brush out of the tail, small detail but something that was often clearly communicated as unacceptable. It was embarrassing but never personal and it was in my control to avoid being embarrassed. Got what I asked for, never skilled over details again. Even today.

Ive had a few lessons from the mean, sarcastic, insulting bully types but not many as I never repeated with any of those. Never cared for the old cavalry approach, What makes one think the way they treated 18-20 year old males would be the way to treat 12 year old girls? Never got that.

Anyway, tough doesn’t mean being a bully. Looking back to when I started taking lessons, circa 1964, I now realize more then one of the nasty ones was drunk. Seen examples of that recently too.

5 Likes
#22

This is a very important distinction! I also think that even one’s impression of a tough trainer can vary depending on your own personality, but some trainers do have a reputation for being “tough”, strict, high expectations, etc. I had and worked for one of those and I am a much better rider for it. She came from a horse family that included riders/horses that went to Grand prix in both jumping and Dressage, and really had their experience in starting young ones and fixing problems. She wasn’t afraid to take what was supposed to be a jump lesson, and turn it into a walk trot exercise to figure out and work on what ever issue popped up that day. Some of my hardest and most important lessons ever have been walk trot, heck even just walking lol!

It has caused me to always strive for more when I ride in terms of balance and keeping that connection. Sometimes I wish I could be a naive beginner just along for the ride, but there is nothing like truly getting that balance right. It’s funny that certain feelings I’ve had had on horses will stay with me forever; Certain courses, jumps, and even a few trots on tough ones that finally unlocked and came up and under and wow, what a difference. I never would have gotten there if my trainer wasn’t tough in a good way.

1 Like
#23

This might be straying away from the topic a little, but I think there’s also a difference between tough trainers who are good/gifted at teaching and tough trainers who are maybe not in the abusive category but still not great at imparting their knowledge to students (when you’re made to do exercises over and over again, but not really understanding why the mistakes are happening, and it kind of feels like a fluke when you do get it finally).

Eg, if I miss to a jump, I feel like there’s not much point in telling me “you got a little deep”. I know that, that’s the obvious part. Tell me WHY that happened. Tell me I got crooked or fell out of balance/rhythm or am being lazy with my leg, etc. Enough repetition might get me to figure it out on my own, but I find it greatly helpful when it’s broken down into the WHY part. And if I already know it, THEN get mad at me for not paying attention or letting whatever bad habit creep up for the 100th time that lesson.

Also, I always think, kind of tongue-in-cheek, that you should be more afraid of your trainer than the course. It’s a trust thing, so if trainer set up a difficult exercise or told me what track to take on course, I just did it without questioning, because I knew she would not over-face me or my horse, or give an unearned compliment (by saying I was better than my abilities actually were). And that little bit of fear – or, really, a high degree of respect of their knowledge and ability – helped me focus. There was no room in my head for doubt; I let trainer worry about whether I could do something or if I was improving (because I was, but there was no point in dwelling on that within one lesson), and just focused on riding the horse.

1 Like
#24

The best teachers are able to tailor their approach to the learning style of individual students. Some need more nurturing, others more structure.

The best teachers are also “tough” in the sense of having high standards and the ability to push students to improve their fitness and skills. But there are a lot of ways to help people get there.

2 Likes
#25

This was really similar to my experience. I had a trainer who made some kids cry, but really she was just straightforward. She didn’t intend to be mean or though. I was a perfectionist so the criticism did work for me! I just wanted to avoid the critique so I would try to ride better and make changes. She was gracious when I preformed well and made positive changes. Overall, I think it made me a better rider. It definitely developed some character as a kid. I think the biggest lesson I learned from her was to never stop learning and there is always something you can improve.

1 Like
#26

I had no riding lessons to speak of as a kid. We were all self taught, a private kids world like skateboarders or mountain bikers today. Only for girls. It was great. I was a decent rider.

However I hated all sports lessons. As an adult I had an epiphany about this. I was about 25, taking adult swim lessons to nail my crawl stroke. The class was useful, and I was learning a lot. The students were all motivated and honestly trying.

Then one day we had a substitute teacher from the kids program. He immediately started hustling us into the water, telling us to get out heads wet, etc like we were a bunch of sulky. 9 year olds that were wasting time.

I reacted very strongly to this and then realized that every single sports lesson I ever had up to the end of high school had that condescending bullying tone. But in the intervening years I’d got used to the encouraging respectful tone of adult yoga and aerobics and weight training.

I realized that style of coaching offended and scared me as a kid, and still offended me. Then I was able t set it aside and stay in the pool for the session.

I want a coach in anything now to be a technical perfectionist with a good eye, but the ability to read the student and provide appropriate input. I have been very lucky with both my main coaches as an adult. They don’t yell unless I’ve done something really stupid or dangerous!

As far as yelling at riding students and pushing them too far, it seems to me that if you want the rider to be fair patient and humorous with the horse, then you can’t push the student emotionally so hard that they lose that ability. You need to model treatment if the horse by how you treat the rider.

I think that many models of sports coaching take their attitude from boys team sports, or perhaps ultimately from the military. That might be useful for motivating a fairly narrow slice of the population that has self selected to be young, male, competitive, bound in a gang or team or unit, and physically confident and invested in physical toughness.

It does not work well for most girls, most adults, or as a model for how to teach horses.

1 Like
#27

Define “tough.”

My first instructor was a screamer. I went home from lessons in tears many times. She was “tough” but it certainly wasn’t to my benefit. All it did for me was turn me into a “zero tolerance” student. Scream at me and I’m done with you.

Demanding? High standards? As long as the instructor is calm and polite and treats me like a partner in the process, I’m happy as a seagull with a french fry. In fact, as an adult, I’ve moved on because the instructor was not “tough” enough.

In my opinion, that saying about the only two emotions that belong in the saddle being a sense of humor and patience applies equally well to teaching riders.

1 Like
#28

I’m having a flashback to every gym teacher I ever had. They were all horrible people.* :lol:

*Yes, yes, I’m sure that as an adult, I might think that many of them are perfectly lovely people. But from my perspective as a child/teen at the time, they were indeed all horrible people.

2 Likes
#29

I grew up with strict trainers and I appreciated every bit of them. In fact, I took a few lessons from “everything is wonderful you’re so great” trainers and I hated it - there’s ALWAYS something you can do better.

I will say, though, I have a trainer now who is phenomenal and tough but I’ve shut down in lessons. I’ve noticed as an adult, I’m much more comfortable being able to think through things and process instruction before I implement it. Of course this means that when I’m having a moment where a horse needs a correction RIGHT THEN, I don’t get that luxury. It’s been a hard adjustment. I don’t know that a lot of people could handle it. Had it happen this winter when my horse sulled up and wanted to go UP versus forward… It’s fine once the situation is resolved, but in the middle of it, I’ve been kicking and pulling and crying all at the same time in a few lessons. :lol: I figure it makes me a better rider and person in the end; you grow when you’re uncomfortable.

#30

This sounds exactly like my coach growing up. . . right down to being a retired cavalry officer, the dressage whip, and throwing stones. And I’m 29, so I don’t know why it would be “dating yourself” to talk about it . . . I’m fairly young and my riding career began in the 90s. All this stuff was happening then, and is probably still happening now.

However, I have the exact OPPOSITE feelings from you about that experience. I can’t believe you think using a dressage or lunge whip or throwing stones at horses with kids on them is appropriate instruction. I didn’t know any better at the time, but looking back now I am horrified. You know WHY those schoolies didn’t want to jump? It wasn’t because they were “wiley”. It’s because they were sore and overworked and probably had crappy feet, if they were anything like the ones I rode.

I was a shy and timid person and I was totally cowed by this instructor. I don’t think doing something you don’t feel ready for because you are afraid to say no to your instructor is a good thing. I developed a fear of jumping as a teenager that I struggled to get over and I STILL have confidence issues that I think are at least partly due to the way I was taught as a kid. I certainly would not tolerate (or pay) a coach to teach me that way as an adult, no would I allow an instructor to teach my kids that way (if I had kids). You can have high expectations of your students without behaving dangerously or scaring them.

I know kids that I grew up riding that quit because the instructor scared them. My love of horses won out over being afraid, but there are people who left the sport with a bad taste in their mouth because of that instructor’s behavior and that is a loss for the horse industry.

5 Likes
#31

Most of those responding speak positively of very tough trainers, possibly because those for whom this style of teaching does not work may have given up riding and are unlikely to be on this board. My daughter had a very tough trainer at one point and I know several kids were so distressed by that teaching style that they quit riding. (This was some time ago and they are older. I know several that are gainfully employed so the quote in the OP is absurd, IMO.) Of course there’s no way to know if they’d have persisted with a different teaching style but I suspect some would have.

2 Likes
#32

For sure. A good trainer sets up the horse and rider to succeed, every time, with clear instruction and fair* exercises (designed to challenge, but not over-face, or repetitive in a way that builds proper muscle memory). Toughness is in setting a high standard and requiring rider’s full attention and desire to learn in every lesson. I think sense of humor, personality and training method/philosophy has to mesh with rider too. Rider had to have some ability to laugh at themselves, while striving to do better (but never for perfection).

One of my trainer’s peeves was riders who said stuff like “my horse swapped in the line” and she didn’t yell (unless it was constant), but she was stern and adamant about correcting you: “you swapped in that line.” Not everyone liked to hear that. Or that they should be jumping lower, or not at all, until they got their base sorted out. They were often the ones that left. If trainer wanted to keep a “client”, I think she could’ve tailored her language to something more flattering or less about the rider’s fault, but if you wanted to be her “student”, you had to be able to take this kind of criticism – ongoing scrutiny of your own riding to further your abilities and communicate better with your horse. If you had a solid base, which you worked for, you could do anything, ride any horse, with it. Some people found it nitpicky, I think, or not that fun or it made them cry (it was not often, and maybe they had other stuff going on too, or they needed someone more nurturing/friendly/less direct – a different personality). For me, a big reward feeling the horse pushing from behind, lift through the back and connect properly. That’s when you were told you were doing ok.

*There was the occasional client who didn’t think it was “fair” to do exercises at 3’ and under, or told she wasn’t ready to jump bigger, when she was jumping 3’6 with previous trainer (yeah, but there was a reason you moved…). Or “fair” to end a lesson early because everything was going well. I think it balanced out because sometimes lessons ran long, if you were still working on something, and it reward the horses (and rider) for trying and succeeding.

#33

I think there is a fine line between tough and abusive, especially in the horse world. Some of the things I’ve heard trainers say to students would be considered verbal abuse if said by any other adult. If a student just isn’t getting it, and you are both getting frustrated, the best thing is to stop and try again another day before something horrible is said or done. No one, should be calling you an idiot or worthless or yelling unproductive things like “are you deaf?” when something isn’t clicking. That doesn’t help anyone and just causes more and more frustration which usually ends up hurting both the student/teacher relationship and shaking up the confidence of the horse. it’s disturbing that parents and riders alike will line up for these types of trainers and pay them thousands to be berated as though it’s perfectly normal.

4 Likes
#34

My oldest, who was so passionate about the sport … he could not get enough being around the barn and horses. He became a working student for a very " vocal" trainer ( A.k.a. … yelling screaming cussing and blaming ). His confidence in riding took a nosedive and the passion was sucked out of him . He quit riding .

1 Like
#35

My trainer was firm, with high standards, but there was never any yelling or students crying, although I think even if I wanted to cry I would have been too embarrassed. We never questioned her though, when I was told to ride a particular horse in a lesson, even a few I was secretly afraid of, it never occurred to me to say no, I rode it and it worked out fine. We would get sent back to the barn if there were shavings in the horse’s tail, or stuff like that. And she had students who went to the Medal and Maclay finals and qualified in the junior hunters at MSG, a son who rode on the USET and a daughter with her A rating in PC who became an R judge.

I rode with other local trainers before this and they were all similar although their standards were not as high, they were teaching riding to kids who wanted to have fun learning to ride.

#36

Yes, it’s highly demoralizing and counter-productive to be yelled at like that. Or to be told you aren’t trying, when you ARE, you just don’t know what to do.

Yelled at to do something specific, like, “FOR THE LAST TIME (after 100x), SHORTEN YOUR REINS,” or “REMEMBER YOUR LEFT LEG,” was a lot easier to deal with, for me.

2 Likes
#37

My sister and I grew up riding for a strict trainer. She expected us to participate in the daily care as well as lessons and helping ride other school horses. We rode a lot, worked hard, and for that have turned into wonderful horsewomen.

The real fear lay in my Dad. Your very typical Pony Dad. He took us to every show. Pushed us out of our comfort zones. My sister wanted to do a second year of Short Stirrup. She was fearful of venturing into the small ponies. He forbid her to show again in short stirrup. In tears, she dropped her first ever, winning, division round.

Even as I aged out of the junior divisions, he still traveled to EVERY SINGLE horse show with me. Stood in the in gate, helped me trade out horses, wiped my boots off. He gave ring side schooling assistance (never entered the schooling ring). When we finally got a video camera, he taped everything. His commentary is priceless… “__(horse)_ quit being an asshole. Eliza, put your leg on so he quits being an asshole.” “Eliza, that was a four, not a five. Where is your leg!” “Had your leg been on he wouldn’t have skipped the change.” (Seeing a theme here?!)

But the most important thing he ever did was forcing us to step out of our comfort zones. To this day both my sister and I have our very comfortable comfort zones, but we are also able to confidently (fake it till you make it!) walk out of our bubbles because of his pushing.

#38

When I overhear kids being taught today, whether the coach is yelling (rarer) or just phoning it in, saying good job! every two seconds, it occurs to me many coaches of kids grow to resent or be frustrated with their students. Also that many riding instructors may grow to be frustrated or resentful of their horses.

The voice many adults put on to talk to kids grates on my nerves now, and did as a kid too.

1 Like
#39

I agree- instructors that learn how to get the best from each student are amazing… that is a true talent for a coach in any sport.

I also think with horse back riding and other potentially dangerous sports being able to push a student outside of their comfort zone without pushing too far is an important part of teaching. I think this is where being a little scared of an instructor but also trusting them is key to get back after a fall/bad experience.

#40

I would say the answer is both yes and no. I was trained by a woman who was herself trained by an old school military horseman. She taught in similar style. You could always say no, but then you could never come back. More than one group lesson without stirrups contained a group of girls with tears of pain rolling down their cheeks that did not give up. I was one.

I learned a lot of good things this way. I learned how to persevere and push through fear. I learned to put the work in to get results. I learned how to be a very effective rider who can work independently.

I learned a lot of bad things. I didn’t learn how to not push too far until decades later, for myself as a rider or for the horse. I’m quite a lot better at that now, for the horses at least. I didn’t learn how to quit, and stayed with some very unsuitable horses as a direct result. I’m not necessarily better at that but I’m certainly better at picking horses that suit me. I’m still terrible at letting myself heal properly from injuries, because I look at backing off as weakness and failure.
I’ve certainly gotten back on after many a fall when I had a concussion, even as an adult from the ‘never quit’ mentality.
I’ve tried to ‘tough out’ low blood sugar episodes in clinics because I didn’t want to quit or complain. (That … wasn’t successful)

Its a philosophy with a mixed bag of benefits and liabilities. I still subscribe to most, with modifications for things I know better now. Old School discipline moderated by the horse’s needs and the rider’s safety and better understanding of animal behavior.

4 Likes

Get your Digital Subscription here - only $21.95 / year

Subscribe here
See gift options

Sign up to our monthly newsletter!

By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.

Copyright © 2023 The Chronicle of the Horse