To the riders who had very, very tough trainers as a kid or teenager...

Do you think it made you a better rider? How about a better person?

A horseperson I know posted something along the lines of “Uncoachable kids make unemployable adults”.

I think for me personally, it was good I had people who were hyper-critical. I cried many tears as a sensitive child, but it made me an aware and reflective adult. At times, I probably needed the yelling to drive home a point, even if the tempers of my trainers were a bit too short, I was able to grow from it. I was lucky that most of the people I rode with had the interests of the horse at heart as well.

Having said that, if anyone taught me in a similar manner nowadays, I would drop kick them. Despite me being able to see it positively now, I remember times I felt more like a punching bag of a frustrating day as opposed to what I was supposed to be - a student.

I am curious what other people’s experiences were with too tough trainers and how it effected them later in life.

I also was a sensitive child, but when I had trainers yell at me I shut down. This happened until I was about 17 (so for 10 years). I just couldn’t handle their yelling because I was already feeling so pressured and critical of myself. It wasn’t until I gained confidence in my riding that I was able to deal with stricter trainers. I actually didn’t even notice it happening until last year when I took lessons with two harsh (in a good way!) trainers. I actually ended the lessons feeling better about my riding because I know when they give praise it’s really meaningful.

As for how it affected me, I think those trainers really hurt my growth as a young rider just because I wasn’t the kind of kid that could handle it and they often pushed me to do things that I wasn’t (mentally) capable of which caused lots of bad falls. However, I have friends who were in group lessons with me that absolutely flourished under the same instruction.

Reflecting, I think most trainers are yell-y or come across as “mean” because they hold students to a higher standard than the rider thinks they are capable of. I see this happening a lot with beginner-lesson trainers because they see everything they’re teaching is easy. Sometimes it’s hard to remember how it feels to be a beginner.

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The only “positive” thing harsh treatment has ever done for me is make me determined to try never to be harsh. Harsh treatment has never worked on me so I don’t think of it as working on anyone else either.

Bullying a vulnerable human on an 1100-lb. prey-flight animal is counterproductive to say the least!

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My dad was always tougher on me than any trainer I had – he used to make me cry a lot, if I made a mistake, even in lessons. I say “was” – he’s not dead, but he has changed. We have a decent-good relationship now, not super close, but not like before either. He was a complete backseat trainer.

I do NOT think that experience made me a better rider, because I was too hard on the horses, too focused on being “perfect” and stuff like getting the horse in a “frame” (because my dad knew enough to know what it looked like when it was good/what won in the show ring, but not enough to tell if the horse was truly moving from behind), too much drilling (because I got in trouble if I made a mistake – if I missed to a jump (literally 1 jump), I wasn’t taking this seriously enough and all the horses and lessons would go away), too much blame on the horses/tack if something went wrong to try to deflect from me (like “horse is pulling, we need another bit”). It wasn’t always like that, but it happened many times over a couple of years and never really knew when it was going to happen, so I was worried all the time. All the lectures happened in the car, never in front of other people.

I think that trainer at the time was “good enough”. Like not dangerous or terrible, and we did a lot of flatwork and no stirrups and all that, but it was kind of “going through the motions” and not effective or enough past a certain point. In hindsight, I would say a decent enough beginner-intermediate barn trying to play at A-circuit level, but for someone wanting to start jumping and showing seriously, not the greatest – I did jump up to 3’6 with her, but there was also a lot of basic riding issues that never got addressed; I had good enough horses to cover for them, for a while. She was not abusive, but I’m pretty sure she was a functional alcoholic – we left when the functional part noticeably declined.

Probably the best thing that happened for my riding was simultaneously getting my driver’s license, moving to a new trainer, and my dad kind of losing interest in the horses – he was starting to mellow a little already by then, so maybe he realized his behavior was Not Great.

This trainer was very firm and took equitation extremely seriously, even for hunters and jumpers. She wanted everyone to be the most effective rider they could be. She was stingy with praise with the riders, not with the horses. It was ALWAYS the rider’s fault. Never blame your horse (you missed the lead change, you chipped, you swapped leads, you’re causing horse to pull or flip his head, etc). You were only allowed two feelings on a horse: humor and patience. If you were getting frustrated, you got off and cooled down. End on a good note: if that takes 20 minutes, then your lesson is done. If it takes an hour, that’s how long it takes. You never repeat an exercise more than 2-3 times in one ride, when you’ve done it properly, so you’re not drilling on the horse.

You really had to earn a “good job”, but she didn’t yell either (unless you were goofing off or not trying). I thought/still think she’s fantastic. I’m not sure if everyone thought so. I’m sure there were people who thought she was harsh or unfair. She made other people cry (but never me – after my dad, this was nothing). Some people left. Maybe they didn’t like that she wanted them to work on the basics, on educating their leg and developing independent aids, rather than jump bigger or go to shows right away. She was also not really tactful – if she thought your riding was sloppy, she’d tell you, no couching it in nice terms (is that harsh? I don’t know – it wasn’t to me, I thought it was honest and fair, because she was right and gave me direction on how to fix it. But I know not everyone took it well, so maybe it was harsh). If she didn’t think your horse was suitable, she’d tell you that too.

I loved this training program, it was amazing, and the result is that I knew where I was on every/any horse I got on. And if I could be balanced, so could the horse. So this is what “between the leg and the hand” means, and “ride every step”. It got to be subconscious, I could feel what the horse was going to do almost before he moved his leg – and how to ask him to move it where I wanted, every step, at the trot and canter. Because I could maintain a good, through canter, I knew where I was to the jumps. Magical. And my dad finally, at like my last junior show, said “maybe riding is not as easy as it looks” and that I was doing a good job.

Anyway. I wish every trainer could teach like her. She has a real gift for it. I don’t miss showing that much, but I miss riding at that level. And the other people at the barn – we all just got along too, which was really nice. I think I follow directions well – like if trainer told me I could jump 4’ or the open water, despite never doing so before, I did it. It’s good and bad, I think, depending on who’s telling you what to do and what they’re telling you. At some point, I also had to learn to be assertive and figure out what to do on my own, instead of taking direction – I think this is called adulting? :slight_smile:

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And one time I had a lesson (kind of a clinic/show prep) with a trainer who was highly sarcastic and yelled a lot. It was not for me, it just made me super tense and I found the sarcasm hard to parse, when I also was trying to figure out what he really wanted me to do on the horse. Another rider in that lesson, my friend, later told me it was the kick in the pants she needed. I’m not sure she would’ve wanted to train with him all the time, though. I certainly did not.

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Interesting on all fronts! I am glad I can look back on my experiences positively, but I did not expect for everyone to have been able to do so.

@retiredhorse I am happy my parents did not absorb much from being around the barn and endlessly supported me.

I have come across amazing trainers and horsewomen who do not yell, which seem almost like an oddity in some elite circles. What I have found is that they form exercises to narrow in on a rider’s weaknesses, but also balance that with noting strengths.

Just like horses, I think we, as riders, get “drill fatigue”. I want to work on my shortcomings, but I also want to be told I am doing SOMETHING right up there (ha… ha… my horse would say).

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I certainly do not disagree with this statement!

Yes, I think striking that balance is important – my trainer that I really loved probably focused more (too much? maybe depending on your learning style?) on the weakness side, than strengths (except to reinforce them so you kept building as a rider).

I think having very clear direction was what I really liked, even if it was aimed at my weaknesses. Possibly because my dad would try to give me riding tips and it was kind of all over the place and sometimes flat-out contradicted trainer – this trainer even said he knew just enough to be inconvenient. :lol:

I will say this trainer shaped my training philosophy, in that I still think it is far better to be harsh/nitpicky on the rider so you can be easier/kinder on the horse. Like, the better you ride, the less drills you have to do.

I had tough trainers but I wouldn’t say they used me as a punching bag. There is a difference between being direct, sometimes saying some hurtful truths, and being mean just for the sake of being mean. A good trainer will always be able to tell you the why behind what they are asking you to do. Sometimes a good trainer needs to push you out of your comfort zone and press you to do something you are capable of even if you don’t believe it yourself.

I appreciate anyone who is direct. Just get to the point. Sometimes that comes off as tough. Sometimes, I got upset as a sensitive perfectionist who wasn’t being perfect. Don’t back talk; just do it. You can do it. I had to trust that trainers weren’t going to ask me to do something I wasn’t capable of. I really don’t like trainers who aren’t critical enough in their eye or in their expression to me of what I need to work on. But of course, if you do a good job, acknowledge that too!

I try to have the same style when I teach. It’s not for everyone! It’s fine when a student struggles, but what gets me the most is when it doesn’t look like they are even trying or they don’t want to try because they don’t trust my method. I try very hard to ask for what I think the student is capable of, and I want them to believe it. You can’t be overly negative and achieve that. But you can be “tough”.

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Lol…did we have the same trainer…or the same dad? :D:D

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:lol:

Also, I forgot until just now that one reason my trainer lost clients was that she would flat out fire them/kick them out* if they talked back in lessons or complained. A few actually came back. Which I guess is a testament to her teaching ability. Her personality was not for everyone, but if you got along with her, she did have a sense of humor.

*Her accountant was Not Pleased when this happened.

I grew up with Grand Prix Dressage trainer/coach/competitor mother. My sister, who is 12 years older than I am, was showing FEI when I was shorter than her horses legs. We spent winters at Michael Poulin’s barn and “tough” was always the norm. As a young kid, I don’t remember my mom/trainer being tough or discouraging (at that point I think hold on and steer was pretty much the jist of our lessons), but when I started competing (around 8years old) she was always really demanding, but it was awesome. Never unfair to me or the horse, but got a young kid in gear to really focus mentally and physically to ride. I would sometimes be in tears, yes, but I was beating her adult students at shows and got my Bronze Medal at 14. It was totally worth it. To this day she will tell my sister and I if something is , yes and I quote “pathetic” or if we aren’t working a horse correctly through back or from hind to front, or aren’t being fair, or are being too lax. She’ll always reprimand harshly and promptly if either of us slip up (“hand riding” , poor position, etc) but she’s also really encouraging of spending quality time with our horses outside the school and we will all go for trail rides, swims and hacks with our horses at least twice a week. She’s pretty renowned for telling it like it is but I am 100% confident that it has made my sister and I the horsewomen that we are today. And I feel like it has made me better equipped to deal with life out of the saddle, in work (barn manager) and with non-horsey people.
She does tone it down for her non-relative students, and for the few kids and beginners she is much sweeter than what my sister and I got, but I’m still quite thankful for what she’s taught us, and even the way she has done it. It’s quite a motivator to know that the horse is capeable of performing to a high level, and that you are too when you “dig deep” to achieve it.

Growing up in the 60’s most trainers were no nonsense. They were diplomatic, but in no way coddling or avoiding what needed attention.

I had ridden with some tougher ones in my teens but felt very prepared mentally. I have been in lessons where other riders left crying or were kicked out of the lesson. I guess having an older brother and sister I learned by observation and did the same thing in my young riding years. What I learned early was - do what your are told, listen, pay attention, work hard and it works out. It’s okay to make mistakes even if you do get yelled at; bust your rear and get it done.

Most tough trainers want you to take your riding seriously. Good ones know this sport is dangerous and if you want to do it you need to put everything you have into it.

Finding the right trainer; like any relationship it depends on the individual. I personally don’t like being coddled - tell me how it is and help me fix what needs to be fixed. One of my favorite trainers would say when it wasn’t done right - DO IT AGAIN. I would whisper to my horse, if you do it right we wont have to DO IT AGAIN… (My horses were probably thinking; “It’s not me!!!”)

I do think that toughness has prepared me for many things in my life. Growing up in the 60’s it was a very different time. I had no parental supervision… the barn was a great place for me to grow up. I was a shy kid but learned to be tough… I did have tough horses and I think that helped too. Some kids were mean and competitive; but that taught me as well.

I went on to serving a community of 120,000 residents as Mayor/councilmember for 13 years; raising five boys, running a family business and a 20 acre avocado farm. As an older adult (over 50) I am riding again and learning different things vs when I was a kid. As a kid I learned to be tough, stay on and care for the horses. Now I am learning to relax and communicate to my horses. The fine details.

Life is an adventure. It’s not always perfect but those ups and downs make us the person we are today.

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Mine were tough as well. No nonsense. Strict perhaps, but not abusive. The horses needs came first, which is as it should be.
I was not used to being shouted at home. My instructors were a bit louder than I was used to at times, but they only let loose when my safety, or care for the horse was the issue.

It only took one time for me to be reminded to run my stirrups up after dismounting. I knew better, but “forgot”, and was told in no uncertain terms that my neglect was unacceptable. I was riding a very nice horse that was not my own and that reprimand stayed with me,I never forgot that again.

I was lucky. I was never abused. I was shouted at (which did freak me out a bit) but only when the horse’s welfare or my safety was at stake. I learned those lessons well and am very grateful for the guidance and for the many opportunities that I was given, because they taught me well and I listened and learned.

Horses can (usually unintentionally) hurt or kill you. You can put them in danger if you neglect to take the proper precautions when riding and caring for them.
A sharp reminder to a young person is a good thing, the consequences of inattention can be devastating.

Riding and caring for a horse is a serious responsibility. Kids and young people need to understand right off the bat that learning to ride is not an amusement park pony ride during which the child has no responsibility other than to sit.

Abuse and bullying of children is something else altogether. That is where the parent really needs to have a forthright relationship with their child, where the child hopefully feels comfortable and confident that they can discuss circumstances that bother them without the worry that their feelings will be dismissed or that their parent will overreact.

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I haven’t read the whole thread, but the best thing that ever happened to me was that I had a tough trainer with extremely high standards growing up. Prepared me to be a success in college and later on in life. I am still very close with this person to this day and he is a sort of father figure to me.

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Are we defining “tough” by a teaching style, or expectation of performance, and furthering the rider’s education?

I was taught to ride in the hunter discipline, with success in the hunt field the ultimate goal. All of our flat work, and much of our gymnastic work was done without irons. My instructor was firm, her standards never compromised. As a result, we were absolutely stuck in the tack, safe and ready to ride cross country, at all gaits for hours. She managed this without raising her voice or making anybody cry.

I contnue to to take lessons, because I want to stay safe out hunting. If I feel my teacher is letting me slide because of my age, or because I don’t show, I speak up immediately. That isn’t kindness, that’s condescending.

As said above, bullying children on 1200lb animals isn’t tough-it’s bad instruction.

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(Dating myself here) I rode for years with a retired cavalry officer who treated his young students EXACTLY the way he probably treated the raw recruits he’d dealt with earlier in his career. I was a shy, slightly timid rider who never would have progressed like I did if I had a gentle, understanding instructor. Healthy fear is a remarkable motivator for me!

When this guy pointed at a big oxer, which you knew you only had a 50/50 chance of getting the wiley schoolie over, you just did it. And if you came off, you kept doing it. If I had been given a choice, or felt like I had the option to say no, I wouldn’t have done it—and I’d be a much poorer rider today.

This was a guy who wasn’t averse to standing next to a fence with a dressage whip for schoolies who decided to take advantage of their riders. And he chucked a stone at my horse’s butt once during the third or fourth dirty stop when he wasn’t close enough to employ the whip. Worked like a charm. :lol:

We also did at least half of every lesson with no stirrups, and often didn’t get to use them at all. That muscle memory has remained, even 30+ years later, and I’m grateful for him every time I ride.

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I, too, grew up with tough trainers. Lessons often ended in tears and I often deserved the reaming. I learned a lot and had a lot of fun, but if I wasn’t focused or giving it my best, I heard about it. I have a vivid memory of yanking on my horses mouth in frustration and oh boy…hell hath no fury. She let me have it, made me get off and stand in the middle of the ring while the rest of the lesson finished. I cried, but I deserved it. I was being a brat and taking it out on my horse.

That same trainer taught me the most about horsemanship and barn management. I still speak with her sporadically and thank her for an education that many didn’t receive.

The following trainer was also a tough cookie. Not abusive, but praise wasn’t handed out just because. If she told you “good job”, you nailed it.

Today, 20+ years later, I need something different from an instructor. Adult me needs more explanation, more descriptions, and asks way more questions. Shouting or negativity shuts me down. There’s a local trainer who is a yeller and if he steps into the schooling ring at a show, I have to leave. Just his presence and voice yelling at his own students makes me want to curl into a ball and hide.

I guess that was the long way of saying that my tough childhood trainers gave me a foundation to be an aware adult horse-owner, but as an adult, I need a stern trainer who understands how to teach the over-analytical adult ammy.

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My daughter has what some see as a tough instructor- she expects the kids to push themselves and will tell them exactly what they are doing wrong. It is not always said nicely. Ive seen some intense lessons over the past couple of years. But, she is pretty good at balancing with praise as well which I think is key. The kids will definately work for that praise. She is not for everyone though and luckily there are other instructors for the riders who need a more gentle approach. My kid has been riding with this instructor for over 2 yrs so she is used to it and she actually seems to like it sometimes (and she is a very quiet introverted kid) but she has had tears during lessons occasionally as well.

There was a time, however, when I thought the instructor went too far - it was a situation where my daughter couldnt get what she was trying to teach for whatever reason even after several lessons. I felt the instructor was out of line with what she was saying to her and I finally had to say something since I felt it was too much. My kid was 11 at the time and it was really having a detrimental effect on her. I brought it up gently and we discussed it and luckily she changed her approach. Normally I would let things work out on their own but my kid was losing respect for the instructor and I was ready to walk. I really didnt want it to come to that without at least giving it a chance to work out. But I approached it as respectfully as I could (no blaming, no fussing) and she was receptive. They went back to working like they always had and my kid was able learn what she needed to learn.

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I had a “tough” trainer in my final years as a junior. She was the type that would send you back to the barn if you showed up to a lesson and your boots weren’t spic n span. She was also tough on my riding, however she was the one that aways had a big smile and kind word to say when you did it right. I always knew she was tough on me because she knew I could do more and she helped me get there and it absolutely made my junior career to know that I had reached that level and had someone who was able to elevate me to that. I never would have gotten there without her. I also had a second trainer in the barn who was a seriously “nice guy” type and i never rode as well with him, though many flourished under his training.

That said, some trainers do take it over the top and you have to find the right personality type that works for you.

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