To wedge or not to wedge: problem horse edition

[fivestrideline]

I’m researching options for my problem child whose NPA seems extremely resistant to improvement.

Long story short, this horse has a lot going on… everywhere… but a good chunk of it could be attributed to his 0 or negative PA in the hinds. He tends toward NPA up front too (likely has it now, for reasons I’m working on correcting), but the fronts seem to be mostly correctable with good trimming. The hinds don’t want to come up, which is likely due to the body soreness that I’m also attempting to correct.

Wedges have been discussed for the hinds, the thought being “well at this point he’s either degenerating or we try wedges and manage the heels as best we can”. He’s had them before but couldn’t keep a shoe on to save his life - he would basically slide out of them or fling them over the pasture fence and halfway across the arena. X-rays over the course of years show almost no improvement despite multiple farrier attempts (with long enough with each pro to theoretically see something).

Boots and wedge pads are the next option, which would also allow frequent trimming.

Has anyone done hind wedges with success? Or wedges in boots? Wedges seem extremely divisive, some hate them and some think they can be a necessary evil. The key seems to be a proper trim (obviously), as slapping wedges on a crappy trim won’t fix a thing (BTDT). I’m looking at a multi-faceted approach with drugs + potential injections for the body issues, and plain boots at the least for the hoof issues.

(This is a horse that is retired, and can remain that way. But if he can comfortably work enough to build some muscle it would go a long way in supporting his body issues that are exacerbated by lack of strength).

[Kyrabee]

I put wedges in boots to ‘test’ out my mare. I can’t remember is I used a 2 or 3 degree pads. She was not dragging her toes so much as the whole dorsal wall. X-rays showed her to be about 0 degrees on the hind feet. She wasn’t super sore but can get tight in the hamstrings. I figured I would try wedges to see if that would help the dragging. I was repeatedly told she had weak stifles and that she would grow/work out of it with work. I am pretty sure that they would still tell me that now that she is 22yo .

I use Renegades and didn’t think pads would stay in them but they did. I only used them for riding for 2-3 weeks to really tell if raising her heels helped her mechanics. She was barefoot the rest of the time. You made need to size up to get the heel to fit correctly. I didn’t have to with the Renegades. It gave my trimmer information and we adjusted the toe plane…didn’t mess with the heels at all. Of course you can’t just lop off a hunk of toe. She did it cautiously over a 3-4 month period until she felt she couldn’t safely take anymore.
That said, she still drags a bit but nothing like she used to. She is a bit worse on her weaker right hind but I think she is pretty darned sound. She has no tenderness or effusion in her stifles. I think that is just the way she is. I have ridden her through 2nd level and she was handling it. It was me that fell apart.

She is currently in pretty light work because I am unsound but I get lots of compliments on how nicely she is moving. Her senior years are going much better than mine

[fivestrideline]

Yeah that’s what we are trying to see - if it’ll help at all! He has always dragged his toes a bit, but he’s wearing them down pretty badly now. He’s proven that he just doesn’t do well in shoes - he grows foot like crazy and even 4 weeks is too long. He needs some amount of rasping weekly or so, unless I want to have the farrier out for a full trim every 2-3 weeks.

This is why we are considering trying it in boots, since historically the feet haven’t corrected themselves, and boots would allow me to swipe at his toes weekly. I’m also trialing previcox in addition to his gabapentin, with SI and back injections on the table.

He’s a mess, but retirement isn’t treating him as well as I’d hoped. The back soreness is just off the charts for a horse in 0 work that lives outside, so we are hoping to get him comfortable enough to work a bit for muscle tone.

[Alibhai_s_Alibar]

I’ll let the more seasoned people address the important details in your post but I can offer a tiny piece of management that has anecdotally helped my horse: I make a little “ramp” of shavings along the back wall of his stall and he frequently uses it. He rests his hind feet on it and adjusts the angle of the “wedge” with his feet while he’s relaxing in the stall. Outside, he has other natural ramps where he can rest. We also work with Sure Foot pads a few days a week and he likes the slanted pads best for his hind end. This is a small husbandry detail compared to what you’re dealing with and it might not apply, but it’s a small way to give a horse a choice of self-wedging at rest.

[Kyrabee]

Yes. I forgot about the Surefoot pads. I need to drag mine out. I have a set of wedges that I haven’t used much. I must change that.

I am real lame right now so that would give me something to do with her.

[lightningevent]

The horse I was just leasing is in one wedge pad behind to correct a postural imbalance. It’s not traditional but the before-after was pretty magical. I think he started in a 3 degree wedge and is now down to a 1 degree wedge, but I’m not an expert.

Esco Buff came up with the plan and did his first trim. He’s lost the shoe a couple times but not more than anyone else has in mud season.

[fivestrideline]

@lightningevent

It’s not traditional but the before-after was pretty magical

I think this is where I’m at with wedges in general. Since this horse doesn’t need to have an athletic career and is battling a lot of stuff if he is happier in a non-traditional setup, so be it.

I have posted many times about my farrier struggles over the years with my many moves, so the boot + wedge is kind of the compromise I’m coming up with. We will see what his feet look like at the next trim and go from there - hopefully they’ll fit back into his old hoof boots!

[Kyrabee]

Unfortunately, most hoof boots are not meant for 24/7 wear. Be careful you don’t end up with a mushy foot from boots as it sounds like your plan is for him to wear them full time.

[fivestrideline]

Well aware . That’s why I’m looking at different options from my Cavallos - they’re soggy even after 12 hours. I have some friends IRL that successfully used Scoots for 23/7 wear, so I’m researching options similar to that design. The wedge discussion does complicate things.

This is the type of farrier work I am dealing with. The bare feet are much better (especially when I maintain them with some rasping in between), and I’ve basically exhausted my farrier options right now.

[Kyrabee]

@fivestrideline

This is the type of farrier work I am dealing with.

Oh, I know. I am doing my own too.

With zero to negative angles, be sure you are addressing toe height and not just toe length. Go easy though. Little bits at a time .

[fivestrideline]

Absolutely!

[IPEsq]

It will be better if you can go with glue ons. You can use more glue/SuperFast to build up the heels as one option versus a full wedge. None of it will fix bad trimming, though.

[Festivity]

You can learn to trim or just get really good at rasping. You won’t do any worse than the bad farriers you have had. Then you can do glue on shoes with packing, pads, wedges, or glue build up. The glue on shoes can be reset many times if you’re careful. You could remove and reset them every couple of weeks if you’re up for it. Might not be more work than boots in the long run. Also when they lose a glue on shoe they don’t tear their hoof up so it’s just a pain and time if you don’t get them to stay on perfectly to start with.

[Feathered_Feet]

I will second this what @Festivity said!

OP, you might as well start learning how to do your own. There’s no reason why you can’t learn to trim and learn to use either boots or apply glue-ons. It’s a journey so I recommend starting now.

You can ask your current farrier to teach you for now (knowing full well that you will have to unlearn some of it, given his skills), there are a ton of short, in person courses (I recommend taking several, from several different schools), and there are a ton of facebook groups with lots of info, people willing to comment, etc. There are options out there! You don’t have to be beholden to a poor farrier.

[fivestrideline]

Yeah… I’m getting there. I really don’t WANT to

I’m still confused by the wedging - some things show the negative impact on the suspensories, some things show horses living in wedges just fine if the trim is right. I’m guessing the poor impact on the suspensories is mainly when the toe is left too long but the heels are wedged up? Because I can’t “just ask the farrier”, I’m worried about the mechanics of it all.

Anyways, I’m having the time of my life!

[IPEsq]

You would learn this in a course. My farrier and I were having a discussion last appointment about heel height and suspensories, and he told me that’s the most missed (incorrect) answer on one of the farrier school tests, and he showed me his anatomy notes and drawings from his classes (he also does teaching and used to take apprentices). But in that context, we were talking about horses with positive angles. There is more to fixing angles than just adding heel height or taking off toe height. You have to look at the entire anatomy of the foot where it is now and where you want it to be (if incorrect now). And then also consider other factors the horse may have going on affecting its posture when you decide on an approach for providing additional support.