Tommy Serio back on Safe Sport list

[Atlas_Shrugged]

@FitzE

Are you suggesting that there is a connection between a child’s athletic ability and their ability to recognize and avoid emotional and sexual exploitation by adults with age and power differentials and that puts some (any?) responsibility on such “pony kids” to thwart such behaviour?

I am saying that those of tender years are still capable of knowing something about anatomy and privacy

[Bascule_Baby]

@YankeeDuchess

First of all, it’s YankeeDuchess.

I do not know Tommy Serio personally, and would probably not even be aware of the name if BN and KS had not made him the poster child of the anti SS groups. So SS put him on the list. BN and KS made him a social media star.

Are you threatening my children (if any)?

I am interested in a strongly supportive of SafeSport.

I had to get back on for the freak show that this has become. Worse than i thought. I am a 60 year old, married woman who has focused my attention of late to animal advocacy. The fact that you asked if i am threatening your children is priceless. I will reveal who i am in case you are worried about your kids. Laura Dehlendorf, Columbus, Ohio. This whole thing has become absurd and i am convinced none of you know Tommy personally. So easy to “poke the bear” (there i go again) under aliases.

[FitzE]

@Atlas Shrugged

This makes no sense - and why would people “pray” on people “without funds” ? And why are they incompetent ?

Did you just “correct” my use of the word prey [to hurt, cheat, or steal from (someone) - criminals who prey upon the elderly - lawyers who prey upon indigent and vulnerable clients] to “pray” [address a solemn request of thanks to a deity or other object or worship]?:lol:

OMG, you smugly used the completely wrong word!! And you say you’re a lawyer? Lord, almighty, please tell me you do better than this for your clients. We are now meant to believe a lawyer of 30+ years doesn’t know the difference between the verbs pray and prey.

Absolutely no mystery why the profession is so roundly mocked and scorned.

[FitzE]

@Atlas Shrugged

I am saying that those of tender years are still capable of knowing something about anatomy and privacy

Ladies and gentleman, a mandated reporter.

Holy hell, all back and forth aside, this is the saddest thing I’ve seen on these threads. This kind of stuff could get you reported to the bar if you are indeed a family lawyer. This is bankrupt and makes me despair that anything will ever change.

[FitzE]

@ladyj79

I would like to recommend to you my own internal blocking system, where when someone starts out as unhinged, and beyond the pale, I just presume I dont need to read any more of their --now oddly prolific–posts.

You don’t have to, but it helps.

You are, of course, totally correct. When someone self-identifies as not only a legal professional but also a family law practitioner and spews the kind of stuff she has, I feel honour and duty bound to respond. But now that she has let us all know that those of tender years bear a certain knowledge standard I’m so thoroughly sick to my stomach I will try to do just that. Not like she was capable of responding to direct points raised in an intelligent and cogent fashion anyway. Holy hell. Just that post lets me know she did not watch that young woman’s testimony. No one who did could write the things she’s writing. It’s really sick and sad.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Atlas Shrugged

Where do people come up with this stuff? lol I have been licensed since 1985 in multiple states

I “came up with it” based on your statement that you just made it up, obviously.

Licensed in what, exactly?

[Bascule_Baby]

This is better than Netflix. I say everyone on here should be suspended for 3 years while the pros ride.

[Bascule_Baby]

@FitzE

You are, of course, totally correct. When someone self-identifies as not only a legal professional but also a family law practitioner and spews the kind of stuff she has, I feel honour and duty bound to respond. But now that she has let us all know that those of tender years bear a certain knowledge standard I’m so thoroughly sick to my stomach I will try to do just that. Not like she was capable of responding to direct points raised in an intelligent and cogent fashion anyway. Holy hell. Just that post lets me know she did not watch that young woman’s testimony. No one who did could write the things she’s writing. It’s really sick and sad.

[Bascule_Baby]

FitzE: Response to wrong post. I am not on this lawyer topic.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Bascule Baby

I had to get back on for the freak show that this has become. Worse than i thought. I am a 60 year old, married woman who has focused my attention of late to animal advocacy. The fact that you asked if i am threatening your children is priceless. I will reveal who i am in case you are worried about your kids. Laura Dehlendorf, Columbus, Ohio. This whole thing has become absurd and i am convinced none of you know Tommy personally. So easy to “poke the bear” (there i go again) under aliases.

I did not ask who you were. You asked who I was, and asked if I had children. I don’t think whether I have children is any of your business. I don’t think I need to have a “kid who rides” to legitimately have an interest in SS.

I’ve already said straight up that I don’t know TS personally, never met him, never seen him ride. The posters on this thread, most of whom support SS, are discussing the news that SS gave a three year suspension to Serio. The level of interest is NOT that we know Serio personally, but rather that anti SS crusaders like BN and KS have shone a spotlight on him. If they had not made a poster child of him, I doubt this thread would exist.

I can’t speak for others, but I frankly don’t understand your position that no one should comment on his suspension if they don’t know him personally.

You’ve posted nonsensical things - the “girl” is 25 and not a child. The fact that the reporter is not a minor is not noteworthy, since he was not accused of a violation involving minors! Why ask if she reported it to the police, if the violation is not a crime?

[smoofox]

@Bascule Baby

Okay, if everyone knows the facts then what are they? How old is she or was she? What happened? Why don’t you reveal who you are if you rode with him? Personally i think you are a bunch of wannabes with nothing else to do. I don’t ride anymore so am tuning out this nonsense. Hope you feel proud of your worthless and baseless opinions.

Again… it may be best to actually read what you wrote and follow your own advice. You must have nothing else to do if you are posting here - as per your own criteria. Hope you feel proud…

Answer your own questions - but you can’t as you have admitted you no longer ride, have had nothing to do with TS for years and thus must be a wee bit sketchy as to actual “facts”… apparently SS knows a helluva lot more about the situation than you do.

[Atlas_Shrugged]

@YankeeDuchess

I “came up with it” based on your statement that you just made it up, obviously.

Licensed in what, exactly?

Brain surgery

[ladyj79]

Sometimes it’s just better to let people hang out under bridges by themselves.

[FitzE]

@Atlas Shrugged

Brain surgery

Hmmm, and yet do not know the difference between prey and pray or that people from many native-English speaking countries other than your own use different English spellings. I’m doubting the legal and the medical license! :lol:

Or I’m really worried for your clients/patients.

[FitzE]

@ladyj79

Sometimes it’s just better to let people hang out under bridges by themselves.

Fair point.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

@YankeeDuchess

Sexual misconduct in the context of a power imbalance. No claim that a minor was involved.

Is every sexual relationship where there is a power imbalance between the two parties conclusively improper and therefore sanctionable under SafeSport? Or does there have to be some additional proof that the more powerful party used pressure tactics, that the sexual activity was unwelcome, or the like?

[Bascule_Baby]

25 year old “girl” or “woman” is a matter of semantics. So a violation is not a crime? I did not know. But a 3 year suspension to a pro who knows no other life is devastating. I have been away from this h/j world a long time. Heard about the suspension and asked my husband’s professional granddaughter and her husband (cross county) about SS. They were telling me all of the restrictions. No texting with minors, no traveling together without two adults. Just sounded overly protective to me. I wish no one ill will, but i have sincere reservations that the man i knew, who is now 70 and happily married, should be judged by bystanders.

[smoofox]

@ladyj79

Sometimes it’s just better to let people hang out under bridges by themselves.

Yahbut sometimes… when life has slapped you upside the head in the past few days… you have a need to be the Big Billy Goat Gruff…

[hey101]

@YankeeDuchess

I agree with you that the term “due process” creates confusion. Many people think the term necessarily applies to the particular process prescribed by the constitution for the criminal justice system. I suggest calling that “due process ©”
for Constitutional.

While that exact form of due process does not apply to SS, I agree that SS needs to abide by its own due process (say, “due process (SS)”).

But you haven’t convinced me of significant lapses by SS in following its own version of due process.

WRT interim suspensions, the rule is that a person under investigation is interim suspended if he/she is considered an active risk of offending while the investigation is going on. So apparently GM was deemed not a risk of offending during his two year investigation.

Double jeopardy: It would have been double jeopardy for Serio if it had gone through to a conclusion of the investigation, and then a new investigation opened, but in the parallel criminal court context, a person can be charged, the charges dropped, and charges refiled without it being double jeopardy.

Whether a relationship between a 17 year old and an 18 year old constitutes statutory rape: To a first approximation, statutory rape is sex with someone under the age of consent, which varies from 16 to 18 in the US. However, in most states, the law specifically takes into account the age gap. In a state in which the age of consent is 18, I’d be surprised if sex between a 17 year old and an 18 year old is actually considered statutory rape. At least not felony statutory rape. So unless you know the details, you don’t know that it is statutory rape.

Limited interaction: yes, prohibiting lessons on MWF but allowing them on T/Th would be stupid, and that’s not what that means. A problematic jumper trainer might be prohibited from participating in actual shows, but might be permitted to still design courses (things that did not involve interacting with minors).

So I 100% agree that SS needs to uniformly follow its own due process system. I just don’t see that you have brought up any major breaches.

thank you for a measured and reasonable response. I am going to completely ignore the pissing match currently ongoing with a few posters. Not interested.

i think it would be helpful for some of the people on both sides (or, many of us in the middle) to take a deep breath and come back to understand the spectrum of opinions on this.

I see three basic categories (highly simplified): SS sucks full stop. SS is perfect and if you don’t support you are a bad person. And a large number of people in the middle who, like our political process, don’t identify with either side and keep trying to offer suggestions but are being drowned out by the radicals at the extremes of both positions.

we may have to agree to disagree on what constitutes a “ major” breech. It’s pretty easy to sit back and say “well GM didn’t constitute an immediate threat so of course he didn’t go on interim” but there have been a number of people who have come off and on the interim list that might feel otherwise. I can think of two Eventers in this category.

with respect to the comments on “limited interactions”, this goes directly to the heart of many peoples’ issues on the lack of transparency. No one actually knows. Why is this person being treated specially, and “limited interactions” leaves vast area for interpretation on someone being able to continue to work and earn a living.

with respect to your comments on statutory rape, this has been brought up quite a few times In Various social media discussions I’ve read. SS is uniformly applying a standard across all states where actual legal rules in that state are different . You can’t have it both ways. This is the issue that many people have with SS- it appears they are picking and choosing how to apply laws and regulations.

I keep seeing heated requests for “offer real solutions” to fix SS. But yet when people actually try to (ie follow your own process EVERY time?!!) I’m seeing a lot of “no you are wrong and you are a child molester/supporter if you think otherwise” instead of “hey I am trying to hear and understand and let’s try to calmly discuss what is reasonable and fair for all parties”

[NoSuchPerson]

@hey101

This is the issue that many people have with SS- it appears they are picking and choosing how to apply laws and regulations.

I don’t see this at all. I think SS has actually been reasonably internally consistent, given that some of the situations they deal with fall within gray areas. A SS decision is, of necessity, a judgment call. There are going to be situational differences from case to case that are not going to be readily apparent to bystanders who are not privy to all the details of a case.

I see one consistent and glaring difference between those who generally accept SS decisions as legitimate and those who don’t and that is trust. Some people have looked at the law and looked at Safe Sport policies and practices and Safe Sport staffing and have concluded that Safe Sport can be trusted to hand down equitable decisions. Others have reached the opposite conclusion.

@hey101

I keep seeing heated requests for “offer real solutions” to fix SS. But yet when people actually try to (ie follow your own process EVERY time?!!) I’m seeing a lot of “no you are wrong and you are a child molester/supporter if you think otherwise” instead of “hey I am trying to hear and understand and let’s try to calmly discuss what is reasonable and fair for all parties”

This might be because most folks here don’t agree that the “real solutions” being offered are indeed solutions to problems that truly exist. For example, maybe some folks think SS is already “following their own process every time,” at least as closely as they can, given the subjective nature of the process and situational differences between every case.

To me, the objections raised here against Safe Sport are almost always of the “Straw Man” type and/or very vague. To use your own example, “follow your own processes every time” is vague and non-specific. You might get more traction if you would give specific examples: Safe Sport rules say that they should always do X and in this case, Safe Sport did do X, but in that case, which was exactly the same kind of situation, Safe Sport did Y.