Huh?
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Reading the facebook comments, whew. I donāt understand why people think SafeSport has nothing better to do than pick unwarranted fights with big name equestrians. The whole point of SafeSport existing is that they donāt know or care much about who-is-who in the sport. I also donāt understand why random people think there wasnāt an investigation, when it seems obvious that a specific sanction would only come after investigations.
And finally, boy does everyone in the horse industry have rose-colored glasses on about what happens in a workplace if these kinds of allegations are made. Not to mention that they donāt hold their local prosecutors to this same standard with respect to courts of law.
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One interpretation of your last paragraph is that you live your life by the rule that lying, cheating, and stealing are fine so long as you end up āwinningāĀ. Is that what you meant?
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I canāt help but feel significant empathy for Kathy Serio. I know sheās offered herself and Tommy up to AFE as the poster children for Professionals Done Wrong By SafeSport, but sheās got a lot to deal with now, not the least of which is facing the fact that her husband evidently cheated on her with either a client or employee. And itās public knowledge.
That, plus how in the hell is she supposed to get around the āaiding and abettingā rules? I know she shows as an amateur; presumably she could go pro for the next few years and assume the helmsmanship, but thatās going to be really difficult to navigate. Assuming they stay marriedā¦
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I just popped back into the forums after seeing the COTH article on Facebook.
A few observationsā¦
First - I saw a comment or two indicating this current suspension relates to the same issues behind the complaints leading to his first appearance on the list. I have no knowledge personally if thatās trueā¦ but thatās what a few comments have indicated.
If that IS the case, my recollection is that he first went up on the Safe Sport list WHILE an investigation of the complaint was underway. Then later came off the list.
Myself, as well as many others who read the long post Kathy wrote about their experience assumed the matter was investigated and closed. But was that actually an incorrect conclusion? Has this issue remained open this whole time? And Safe Sport got additional information and reached a decision?
Orā¦ did new information come to light and they went back and re-opened a closed matter? Honestlyā¦ if thatās the caseā¦ thatās somewhat concerning.
I have no need to know details, nor is it my business. But if this relates to the original complaints against him, it definitely seems like it raises some questions as to Safe Sportās own processes. Based on what I had heard about the first time he went on the list, I thought it was fair to criticize the way his name went up on that list while the investigation was ongoing. They (SafeSport) now apparently only publicly put peopleās names on a banned list WHILE an investigation is underway IF that person poses a significant ongoing risk to others around themā¦ especially minors. Anyway, I always thought that aspect of the original TS case, and complaints about SafeSport processes seemed worthy of listening to, and consideringā¦
Now Iām wondering if there is a bit of a tricky issue similar in nature to legal double jeopardy? Is there any clear guidance in other types of administrative and legal processes, or codes of conduct that speak to this sort of thing? At what point is a case considered investigated and āclosed?āĀ
Perhaps this line of thinking is irrelevant though, as perhaps this is a totally different complaint, independent of the other one. I have no clue. But it does lead to some questions about what is the SafeSport process with respect to potentially re-opening āclosedāĀ complaints, and how fully that whole issue has been thought through.
Whatever the facts are, he still has the opportunity to appeal. I have no idea who the Serioās legal counsel is these days, but I hope they are getting good advice from someone skilled, as it seems like his ongoing experiences with SafeSport are uniquely complicated. I firmly support and stand with victims of abuse, but seeing his name back up on the banned list again, along with a suspension of limited duration, and the commentary linking this to the original complaintā¦ I donāt knowā¦ I guess it all leads me to be extra cautious and ask a few questions about the full process that I hadnāt thought about before. Specifically, reopening closed complaints that were already decided. Unless they werenāt decided and everyone who read the public posts related to their initial SafeSport experiences misunderstood a few key details somehowā¦
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I donāt think they ever close a case unless they have evidence that the person truly wasnāt in the wrong. Heās not on the banned list. Heās suspended.
My guess is they removed his name but didnāt actually clear him. I donāt think you can apply double jeopardy in this case.
His lawyer is still BN per the article.
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Gotcha. I hear you on the difference between suspended and banned. Itās significant and important to note.
I do understand double jeopardy as a legal conceptā¦ and that SafeSport is administrative. But there must be some sort of process control in place with respect to complaints that have been investigated and closed, being later reopened. Thatās a bit tricky.
In his particular case, given the fact that his name was already publicly put on the list once, then came off, then that post went public and they became vocal supporters of AFE, andā¦ now he is suspendedā¦ this seems like a limb Safe Sport is way out there on. If the suspension is overturned on appeal, that is not a good thing for SafeSport.
If I were them, Iād be seeking additional legal advice, beyond just BN.
I hear ya. Iām just not so sure Safe Sport would close out and then reopen a case. I vaguely remember during the livestream it being said that they keep cases open, like police departments do, if there is evidence that something happened but not enough to definitively say someone is at fault. Obviously the police cases itās a fact that a crime was committed itās the āwho did itāĀ thatās in question.
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Correct me if Iām wrong but his previous was a temporary suspension pending investigation. This was back when a few people went on during their investigation and everyone lost their damn minds, including Kathy. I do believe that this was the product of the same original investigation, which now has concluded, and Tommy has received a three year suspension which he will likely appeal, but probably lose. Because safe sport has seemingly wisely done away with the temp suspensions pending investigation for cases that arent as egregious as say, forcible sodomy of a minor, in recent times.
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Thatās essentially what I am assuming as well and trying to say.
The muddying factor is the amount of public info about that situation which people were privy to because of Kathyās long FB post, and Bonnieās involvement. If the investigation was ongoing as of last summerā¦ her post and their involvement with AFE this fall is a head scratcher. She certainly has freedom of speech, and a right to express an opinion regarding her own experiences with SafeSport. But if there was an ongoing investigation this whole time, all the online stuff seems like something that a good lawyer would have STRONGLY advised againstā¦ at least until AFTER SafeSport concluded the investigation.
Maybe Iām missing something, but that seems pretty straightforward.
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I mean, George Morris called and threatened people during his investigation, and Rob Gage called his victims as well, so I think these people are just not going to be able to help themselves from manufacturing a circus. And it is pretty much going to backfire over and over again is also my bet.
These people have a wildly inflated sense of their own power and importance that blinds them to the reality of their stupid behaviour, following on the heels of the behaviour that got them censured to begin with.
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Appeal and arbitration is part of the process. Are you thinking they may be sued?
Suing safe sport would be like suing the FEI. They are required to follow their own policies and thatās pretty much it. As long as their policies arenāt discriminatory etcā¦ there isnāt a chance of overturning a federal entitiesā regulations, without legal maneuvering that would last for years. 
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The original Serio suspension was indeed a temporary one. It never claimed to be exhaustive. Itās completely reasonable that the original investigator saw information that made them concerned about an ongoing problem, and then investigation suggested that it was not likely that anyone was in immediate danger. It could also be that the temporary suspension was replaced with specific no-contact orders or other restrictions that were not public. The investigation could have been continuing all this time.
Itās also possible that at the time there was insufficient evidence to go forward with the case but that additional evidence became apparent, whether or not this is wholly the same case.
The idea of ādouble jeopardyā would apply for example if SafeSport had lost an appeal - say for a skating coach - and then tried to reimpose a sanction for that same original body of incidents. It doesnāt apply here or in criminal justice if the case is investigated but doesnāt get to a verdict/decision. If the DA drops the charges, that doesnāt mean they canāt file them again later if new evidence comes to light.
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Oh - Iām not thinking they will be sued. I just think if this particular case is overturned on appeal, itās going to amount to gasoline on what was a smoldering remaining fire of opposition to SafeSport. And USEF is going to have a significant headache dealing with this.
Iām a supporter of SafeSport for sure. But if this ban is 100% related to the original case, I sure hope SafeSport has been exceptionally careful and methodical and is prepared for an appeal. Because this one is definitely going to be appealed.
Likewiseā¦ I hope anyone going through the process who wants to appeal has good, professional legal representation.
@poltroon - thanks for posting and speaking to my questions and concerns about the whole principle of double jeopardy. The way you have laid it out makes good common sense to me. I think his name going f up on the list early on, while the investigation was ongoing, then coming off the public list, is at the heart of much confusion all around.
It may be a pain for USEF but the buck stops with Safe Sport, so USEF is off the hook.
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I would feel bad for his wife if she hadnāt blasted it all over social media that he hadnāt done anything wrong and is a victim of a weaponized SS report. I donāt have any pity left for her now. No more that I do for all the people that āstand with George.ā Nope. Tolerate bad conduct in your relationships, and you reap what you sow.
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Wha? I missed that. Whatās your source for that information?
I do think adding a new attempt to coerce or intimidate the alleged victim While The Investigation Is Going On is incriminating. Only someone who was sure they have more power than their victim and SafeSport would choose that approach, right?
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The victims themselves spoke out publicly about George and Rob contacting them. Robās was one of his actual victims, George reached out to harass and threaten an interviewee/witness and her family.
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Or they could have an open marriage or the marriage is for convenience sake as a business and no longer a love marriage. Maybe he had her āpermissionā to indulge outside the marital bed and vice versa? Plenty of people stay married for the children. I donāt see it a stretch to stay married for the sake of a business or comfortable life.
Going back hundreds of years marriages were a business arrangements between families and not based on love. In modern society I could see a marriage starting out as a love thing and moving to a point where they stay married for the business. The relationship just morphs from love, to neutral but not to hate. Divorce is expensive. Moving to separate bedrooms is cheaper.
Disclaimer- I have no idea if this is the case here and it is none of my business if it is. Just presenting another possibility.
Personally for 99% of situations where there is a couple where one is a pro and the other is an ammie I call BS. My bet is that the amateur at some point has lunged a clients horse for the pro spouse, hopped on a clients horse to school it, hopped on a consignment sale horse to school it, hopped on a boarderās horse to hack it while they were on vacation and my bet is that it is more than once in a blue moon. I bet in most situations āWhat happens at the farm stays at the farmā. Call me cynical.
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