Tommy Serio back on Safe Sport list

[YankeeDuchess]

@Denali6298

It’s not an odd term to describe a power imbalance it is the term used in most job settings.

And yes your right about the coercion and people like to think it was consensual because god forbid they acknowledge the abuse of power in the situation. I’m also saying I have seen fraternization be an issue because one party got mad over the break up or not getting nice things. Totally consensual, technically fraternization, but never an issue until someone got mad.

My personal situation was one in which it couldn’t be proven but thank god many people raised the BS flag and ostracized the person.

My comment that fraternization is an odd term referred to the fact that, literally, fraternization means “treating someone like a brother”. I know the term has been used in the military for decades, and I know what it means. My comment was that most fraternization relationships these days are not fraternal in the literal sense of brotherly.

I don’t think SS prohibits fraternization between two trainers in a given barn, or two adult working students, if there is no power imbalance, although some universities or businesses would prohibit relationships between employees even without a power imbalance.

If a significant power imbalance exists, whatever ostensible consent has been given is tainted by the power imbalance. No, it’s not as bad as forcible rape or sex with a minor, but I agree with SS putting the burden on the party with more power to refrain from indulging in a relationship in which the consent of the less powerful person complicated by the power imbalance.

[ladyj79]

I doubt that a two year investigation that resulted in a three year suspension was nothing more than a jilted lover.

[anon6923113]

@ladyj79

I doubt that a two year investigation that resulted in a three year suspension was nothing more than a jilted lover.

I concur.

[Denali6298]

@ladyj79

I doubt that a two year investigation that resulted in a three year suspension was nothing more than a jilted lover.

Depends really. Then again my comments are based on my experiences where people will be disciplined by the spirit and letter of the instruction to ignoring it because there is no impact on work, to my own case where I was “punished.”.

Talking advantage of minors is black and white. Fraternization has many shades of grey sometimes. Two years is why I think there is more grey than black and white.

Don’t misunderstand me, it not right and it’s never going to be right. I’ve just seen all forms.

[ladyj79]

I think the length of time spent investigating people like serio and morris is more to make sure the cases are air tight and unlikely to be overturned than it is for lack of evidence.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Denali6298

Depends really. Then again my comments are based on my experiences where people will be disciplined by the spirit and letter of the instruction to ignoring it because there is no impact on work, to my own case where I was “punished.”.

Talking advantage of minors is black and white. Fraternization has many shades of grey sometimes. Two years is why I think there is more grey than black and white.

Don’t misunderstand me, it not right and it’s never going to be right. I’ve just seen all forms.

Then again the George Morris investigation took two years, and Rob Gage, most of a year?

Suspensions are well suited for shades of gray, and I think a three year suspension suggests SS considered it serious misconduct. 

He can appeal the suspension altogether, or appeal the length of the suspension. 

 I find it a little odd that his lawyer has not commented on the news of the sanction, if only to say he will appeal.

[Denali6298]

@YankeeDuchess

Then again the George Morris investigation took two years, and Rob Gage, most of a year?

Suspensions are well suited for shades of gray, and I think a three year suspension suggests SS considered it serious misconduct.

He can appeal the suspension altogether, or appeal the length of the suspension.

I find it a little odd that his lawyer has not commented on the news of the sanction, if only to say he will appeal.

So when I say shades of grey I mean with regards to two adults and fraternization. Kids are on a whole other level. They literally cannot legally consent. That’s the point.

IMO whether or not TS abused his position in the worst way, he deserves the suspension. He broke the rules, thems the breaks. I’m just not willing to publicly demonize him because all I know is he broke the rules. Fraternization as written is black and white. In my experience, the application not so much.

[ladyj79]

I dont think anyone is publicly demonizing Tommy Serio, although I probably would for the doping. Oh i wasnt aware that this performance altering substance (the use of which is prohibited) contained a banned performance altering substance…the use of which is prohibited.

There’s a level of players in the horse world who keep xenophon relevant millenia after millenia.

That he will continue to find himself sideways of fair play and decent human being-ing for decades to come I have little doubt.

[Denali6298]

@ladyj79

I dont think anyone is publicly demonizing Tommy Serio, although I probably would for the doping. Oh i wasnt aware that this performance altering substance (the use of which is prohibited) contained a banned performance altering substance…the use of which is prohibited.

There’s a level of players in the horse world who keep xenophon relevant millenia after millenia.

That he will continue to find himself sideways of fair play and decent human being-ing for decades to come I have little doubt.

Honest question and feel free to PM me your opinion . As far as the doping, at least with the supplement fiasco, His wife has always struck me as more dubious than him. Not that it means much, but he’s one I’ve never heard a bad thing about and when I do it’s his wife running her mouth. This isn’t commentary just trying to understand.

[ladyj79]

@Denali6298

Honest question and feel free to PM me your opinion . As far as the doping, at least with the supplement fiasco, His wife has always struck me as more dubious than him. Not that it means much, but he’s one I’ve never heard a bad thing about and when I do it’s his wife running her mouth. This isn’t commentary just trying to understand.

She was his client for 12 years before they married.

I think that these types of people just find each other in this business.

[Denali6298]

@ladyj79

She was his client for 12 years before they married.

I think that these types of people just find each other in this business.

Okay. But I do question the fact that the only person publicly assing out is Kathy. So my question remains, and @ladyj79 I’m not nearly as connected as you, but I have never heard a whisper about TS. If I’m wrong I’m wrong. So be it.

[ladyj79]

Other than occasionally seeing the Serios at shows, I have had little involvement with anyone in the hunters for maybe seven years? And I left in no small part because of rampant doping and general disregard for the tenets of basic human decency.

That hunter people are disproportionately represented among the dopers and the sexual predators is not a surprise.

What I think about using performance altering substances is pretty well documented here. FWIW I say the same things out loud and in person. Maybe it was all an accident, or all that dastardly Kathy! Like it’s always some stupid groom…I completely understand why a pro would try to foist responsibility for doping on anyone but him. This is his livelihood, it’s her hobby.

I think that the industry is also rife with pros using their position to extract sex from kids and young adults who just want to be around horses, desperate people who think that this is the only or the best way.

But I’m also not a usef or safe sport investigator, but I trust that they are competent and qualified and spent time weighing the facts in this case, and concluded that Serio’s behaviour warranted a suspension.

[LexInVA]

@Denali6298

Honest question and feel free to PM me your opinion . As far as the doping, at least with the supplement fiasco, His wife has always struck me as more dubious than him. Not that it means much, but he’s one I’ve never heard a bad thing about and when I do it’s his wife running her mouth. This isn’t commentary just trying to understand.

Based on the number of writings with her name on them, she is the one who has been the center of attention after marrying Tommy and many don’t know that she has worked in the Pharma industry, in addition to her Equestrian Real Estate business. She is likely only given weight and social status through her association with Tommy, as she was a nobody on the sidelines and lived in rural WV with her husband on a self-made farm before hooking up with him. I don’t know the timeline of her first marriage’s dissolution and how it intersects with Tommy’s, but I’m sure someone can fill in the blanks.

[Denali6298]

@LexInVA

Based on the number of writings with her name on them, she is the one who has been the center of attention after marrying Tommy and many don’t know that she has worked in the Pharma industry, in addition to her Equestrian Real Estate business. She is likely only given weight and social status through her association with Tommy, as she was a nobody on the sidelines and lived in rural WV with her husband on a self-made farm before hooking up with him. I don’t know the timeline of her first marriage’s dissolution and how it intersects with Tommy’s, but I’m sure someone can fill in the blanks.

And that’s exactly my point. He’s quietly gone about producing good results. He quietly handled his “supplement” business. It became public because of Kathy.

[ladyj79]

I wouldnt say anything became public because of Kathy, but because of the doping suspension and now the safe sport misconduct suspension.

It remains laughable that anyone found horse meds in their attic and then randomly fed them to their six figure show horses. Not plausible in any way.

What is plausible is just like the glefke farmers and the Colvins etc, hunter people dope hunters. And sometimes they get caught.

[Pennywell_Bay]

@ladyj79

I wouldnt say anything became public because of Kathy, but because of the doping suspension and now the safe sport misconduct suspension.

It remains laughable that anyone found horse meds in their attic and then randomly fed them to their six figure show horses. Not plausible in any way.

What is plausible is just like the glefke farmers and the Colvins etc, hunter people dope hunters. And sometimes they get caught.

Some hunter people. Some of us buy appropriately.

[ladyj79]

@Pennywell Bay

Some hunter people. Some of us buy appropriately.

I agree.

What do you think it is? That the people at the top feel they have to be successful with every horse they sit on, so they dope? Or they want to be able to sell a pretty but not so much a hunter horse for a lot of money, so they dope? Sheer arrogance? The need to show all the time, leaving minimal time for training hunters?

Like you can show at a lower level in dressage and show jumping and still be competing, still gaining practical experience, but since hunters are such a different animal these days, is it just easier to dope and lope?

I know tommy would catch ride a ton, even at the top, he would ride a lot of rando horses at shows, as do most top hunter riders. I think that in no small part contributes to a culture of liquid lunge.

[YankeeDuchess]

   Sorry to be so ignorant, but what is the purpose of drugging a hunter? To make them hotter? Quieter? More relaxed?  

    I ride dressage and know nothing of what trainers are trying to accomplish by drugging horses.

[ladyj79]

Quieter, less reactive, more even cadence.

these horses are largely loping around on a loose rein, they cannot be unpredictable.

[vxf111]

@YankeeDuchess

Sorry to be so ignorant, but what is the purpose of drugging a hunter? To make them hotter? Quieter? More relaxed?

I ride dressage and know nothing of what trainers are trying to accomplish by drugging horses.

More quiet and relaxed, usually.

So they can turn around and sell the horse for $$$ to a less skilled rider who will also need the “prep” to keep the horse going even close to that level.