When did COTH get so unpleasant? I mean we’re all in this sport together, albeit in many different capacities. Most personal injury / Med mal firms have 800 numbers - big deal. I don’t get pleasure in name-calling. I do love the helpful information on this website. I have found good solutions to training and health issues.
We are. We just didn’t like the status quo and appreciate safe sport. We also have never been a fan of hanger ons. I’ll bet my paycheck that if I was ever caught up in drug case, my fee to have Bonnie represent me would be reflective of who my trainer was.
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“We”? I appreciate safe sport but don’t agree that you are necessarily speaking on my behalf. Who are the “hangers on”? And whom gets to make that designation ? I’m decades deep into the sport of horse showing and own a show barn. Most of my friends share my interest in the sport. But civility is paramount.
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So why do think BN is some sort of angle? She’s an ambulance chasing attorney who helps people based on who they ride for. She doesn’t actually give a damn about the average AA. Contrary to your belief, most attorneys who are good don’t have 1800 numbers. They don’t need them.
When I say “ we” I speak for the average AA who is sick of the BS. That may or may not include you and quite frankly if it doesn’t I don’t care. Some of us are old enough or have the background knowing and working for people who don’t need the likes of BN. Shocking I know. There is a faction of people who are good, honest and at the top of their game. So my “we” may not include you and that’s fine.
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I’m fairly certain the hangers on comment was about bonnie. She’s a hanger on. She likes the culture of top level hunters in the US, but lacks the funds/ability to be there as a rider, or big money owner. What she has to barter for the right to associate with these…people is her work as an attorney to try to clear them of all their misdeeds. That’s why they let her play with them.
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I feel like Atlas won’t get it and they are another hanger on.
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Ya that makes all kinds of sense - I don’t get that you don’t like someone because they help professionals for free. Maybe because you assume there is a quid pro quo. Why take it personally? Maybe she’d help you if you asked? What to your way of thinking is this thread trying to accomplish on behalf of SS? It just looks nonsensical to me.
Huh? That’s a lot of assuming from one sentence. I will never have a need for the likes of BN because I play by the rules. Horses aside, she is the last person I would hire.
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No one is criticizing her for pro bono legal work, at least I’m not. I gave a number of specific examples of factually untrue statements she has made about SS, each of which was intended to undermine the legitimacy of SS and curry favor with the ISWG and AES crowd. It is impossible for me to believe that she believed those statements when she made them.
Ladyj79 gave an example of her taunting AK in a post, and disingenuously claiming she had “no idea” the photo was of AK. The news that SS has completed a full investigation and handed down a 3 year suspension to Tommy Serio seems to contradict her anti SS social media campaign that the previous interim suspension of Serio was based on a completely false accusation.
The thread is pointing out that the news of Serios’ suspension pretty definitively exposes the untruth of the BN media campaign that SS is a vehicle for career ending false accusations.
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COTH is now making Diva look tame. Never thought this forum would be skankier than Diva. It makes the National Enquirer look pretty tame.
Keep it up! Such entertainment!
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Had to refresh my memory as to who you were. It was worth it for your superbowl half time review alone.
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I have no issue with lawyers representing people who need representation, even people who have done bad things. If a lawyer gets someone acquitted, even someone I don’t like, good on her; that’s her job.
I do think it’s possible to make an opinion of her and how she goes about her work based on her public social media posts and on the public USEF hearing transcripts. From what I have seen from those writings and interviews and transcripts - over many years mind you and not just safesport cases - I don’t think she’s who I’d choose to represent me in a hearing or to the media. It’s not just one incident or one client. But maybe that’s my style, and I’d encourage anyone to look for themselves. Other people have obviously come to different conclusions, but I think that is what you are seeing here, not a general anti-defense lawyer bias.
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Have I been called a skank? My statements about BN have not invoked ANY emotionally charged labels. I’ve used completely civil, calm language to report what she has posted online, along with my honest interpretation that the purpose of those statements was to undermine the legitimacy of SS.
If BN makes the decision to post those statements, and the photo of AK, why should you or she take offense that the posters here mention them on a thread about Tommy Serio and SS? Given her involvement as Serio’s lawyer, this thread is concerned with Serio/SS/BN.
The worst that has been said here is that she is an ambulance chaser, but that seems fair given that she works for a personal injury/ medical malpractice firm and seeks publicity on social media.
@oreo mom
In another thread, you stated that the rule you lived by was “It’s not how you play the game that matters, all that matters is whether you win or lose.“ Am I interpreting you correctly that you are willing to engage in dishonesty if it suits your purpose?
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100% and I have firsthand knowledge of this
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With the reappearance of Oreo mom and the comments about diva, I wonder if it was she who was fishing for who @Virginia Horse Mom really is.
ETA: If the allegations are true TS had an affair that crossed fraternization lines. Wrong but that stuff happens all the time. It wouldn’t prevent me from riding with him. When people speak about Safe Sport being like an HR department, this is what it means. People typically learn the hard way that fraternization is what is despite it being consensual or not. If it wasn’t and threats were made, then yeah he’s a dirt bag. I’m not ready to throw him in the dirt bag pile because I have seen these situations go south very quickly because someone gets pissed. I’m not saying that’s what happened here as I myself faced a similar situation. Retribution was a bad evaluation BECAUSE I wouldn’t sleep with someone. I’m just saying it can very easily go either way. It’s also light years away from taking advantage of minors.
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Just to clarify my thoughts on this further.
It’s one thing to say, as a defense attorney, that My Clients Are Innocent and the reasons for that, or to talk even about why process is not creating a just outcome.
My issue with Ms. Navin is that in her social media posts, in my view, she attacks the very idea of rules that regulate drugging horses, or rules to prevent and and remove people who commit sexual assaults or misconduct. There’s never, IMHO, any respect for the basic principle that horses should not be drugged to perform, or that professional trainers should not use their position to bully or make sexual advances to their clients, even their underage clients.
It’s possible, perhaps even better, to defend your clients while agreeing that we all want clean, safe sport, and working to honestly and thoughtfully make the rules better and fairer and more perfect in meeting the shared assumed goal - of horses not being drugged to perform, of coaches and trainers acting professionally and appropriately with their clients. When I see her suggestions for ‘reform,’ I don’t personally see that they are good suggestions for meeting those goals.
Whether intended or not, whether the clients are legitimately innocent or not, whether the case is won or lost, IMHO this particular tack makes the clients look dirty. I say this not to be mean or to attack, but to suggest that maybe everyone can do better. There’s no reason the next 5 years of social media and public statements have to look like the last 5 years.
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What I find very intriguing is years ago BN posted on this forum advocating arbitration for USEF hearings. Funny how that’s no longer good enough.
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HR policies typically prohibit fraternization (odd term in this context) even among participants with no power imbalance, which is hard to avoid.
However, a significant power imbalance such as trainer/ employee can be a form of coercion. So I think the strong prohibition of relationships involving power imbalance is warranted, and quite different from simple fraternization between those with no power imbalance.
Harvey Weinstein claimed all his relationships were consensual, but the power imbalance between movie mogul and aspiring starlet is epic.
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It’s not an odd term to describe a power imbalance it is the term used in most job settings.
And yes your right about the coercion and people like to think it was consensual because god forbid they acknowledge the abuse of power in the situation. I’m also saying I have seen fraternization be an issue because one party got mad over the break up or not getting nice things. Totally consensual, technically fraternization, but never an issue until someone got mad.
My personal situation was one in which it couldn’t be proven but thank god many people raised the BS flag and ostracized the person.
