Very nice job!
Good trainers have said things far better than I could about most of this video, but I feel imminently qualified to comment on seconds 4:31-4:32. This was a 7:59 PSA for helmets that had a helmetless photo shoot smack in the middle of it.
Ehh. I agree with BNFE and others, that horse just looked like a athletic bratty baby. The terrible fours LOL.
[QUOTE=Judysmom;7354762]
Ehh. I agree with BNFE and others, that horse just looked like a athletic bratty baby. The terrible fours LOL.[/QUOTE]
An athletic, bratty, BIG baby. The drafty types get a good rap for being “ammy-friendly” and calm, but his behavior is exactly what happens when some of them get pushed a bit! It just usually doesn’t crop up because the exact ammy’s who want a calm horse are not asking for that extra push.
I’ve dealt with lots of rude horses, from bratty yearlings and two year olds to studs excited about live cover, but by far the worst are those big horses who have figured out they’re big!
However, I do have to agree with those that despite the opinions of a certain trainer, not EVERYONE needs to be riding a horse that they’re afraid of. Pushing through a bratty stopping at jumps issue? Sure, everyone should be able to buck up and deal with that. Dealing with something like the horse in the video, a bucking/bolting/rearing/kicking brat? No, sometimes those horses are best saved for the people who WANT to deal with nonsense like that!
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I always consider my training program a fait accompli when I can ride the horse bareback, helmetless, and in a flowing white dress.
(This girl is lucky. A proper training program would have brought this horse along without the glaring holes. You can’t expect a horse to respond to the aids if he doesn’t know what the aids are or what they mean.
And I agree that not everyone needs to go through this process, especially with a horse who is very disrespectful to humans. Bucking you off is one thing but the kicking out is sociopathic.)
Denny’s post about this initially had me feeling down on myself. I’m not a professional, but an OTTB right off the track was my best bet for a quality horse in my price range - though I definitely did (still sometimes do) feel like I had no business riding him. Of course, working with an excellent trainer who happens to love OTTBs, and having him also ridden by her consistently to fix my mistakes helps… but sometimes people have to choose between not riding, and maybe bucking up and riding the horses that may not be totally appropriate for you, but they are what you have.
I will be the first to say I am probably not a good enough rider to work with all OTTBs. But they are what I like, what I want to ride, and what I can afford. My current horse is coming 5, and although he was an incredibly sensible 3yo, and has been a solid citizen, he has also put me through the wringer. But then, I have learned more, and my riding has improved more, with this horse than any other.
I guess I am still feeling a little defensive over the initial commentary, which is silly. 
I worked with one horse who owners loved him but was very scared of him. He had head on issues, ground manner issues and barely any steering skills. He was an 10 yearl OTTB with physical issues. Long story short it took months to get him on a better path. He was never 100% but sound enough for what she wanted to do. No more head on issue, no more cranky horse on the ground. Could do a passable training level test and jump a small course.
During one lesson the owner was riding and I was teaching her. Towards the end of what was a good lesson, he tapped with his front hoof the small cross rail. On the landing he gave a huge, out of the blue, buck. She came off and in the air he kicked out with both legs, aiming for her. Missed, happily. That kick, out of everything else, shocked the bejeezus out of me. I could not explain why he did it. He had tapped cross rails before with me and her and with another student riding him and nothing happened.
That incident just confirmed for me how cunning some horses can be. No matter how much rehab/retraining you do. It is in the “software” and you can’t “debug” it. She did retire him a few months later.
I am with other who said this is more than baby tantrums and a spoiled horse. This is a horse who lacks respect and knows she can get away with it. Too many other, talented horses out there who don’t feel that way. Kudos to her for working through it. He looks like he is a nice horse. But I would never trust him 100%
This is a nice feel-good story. It was a little exasperating though, to watch a horse with pretty significant behaviour/training holes out jumping. I don’t take a horse that is that rank and unschooled, over fences. He was running out because he was halfway out of control.
I have to wonder if the kid was too cool with him. One of those buck and kick episodes with me and he would have had welts and something to think about. I wonder if anyone ever did much ground work initially with him and gave a good “Knock it the **** off!!!” with his antics. He seems like a cheeky sort.
Here is a video from 2009, shortly after she got Casper. She is working with a trainer as you can hear him giving her instruction thru the whole video.
http://youtu.be/hF7Q3NgSHjA
I do think he was just a higher energy, athletic, too-big-for-his-britches type.
After watching these videos the one thing that I can say is that those ground people are seriously brave. Several times between the videos the horse has kicked out at people on the ground as it bolts away…at this point I would be concerned that it was not just ornery behaviour. I am glad that she got the bottom of his issues and the partnership worked out! Very good riding!
Horses that are reactive are one thing, but ones that seem to have such little respect that they will go so far as to kick at humans are dangerous. Hard to tell if this horse is the former or latter and those kicks I saw were just random and not directed purposefully towards humans…
The kicking thing is a huge issue on my radar right now as I have an OTTB who is not afraid to kick out at people in his stall or in the pasture and it is an absolute pain in the butt (he is perfect under saddle, however, which is the only reason that I am bothering to put him through the ground work boot camp). If I cannot break his behaviour soon though I will have to look for other options for him as I keep my horses at home and I do not like my SO (who loves to help with the horses) around him.
[QUOTE=gr8fulrider;7354705]
Good trainers have said things far better than I could about most of this video, but I feel imminently qualified to comment on seconds 4:31-4:32. This was a 7:59 PSA for helmets that had a helmetless photo shoot smack in the middle of it.[/QUOTE]
Weird right?!?! :lol: I hated that part.
In Hand Showing
I wondered as well what type of “in hand showing” she was doing.
I wish there were more options for that here in the states.
Good for her for learning how to be a true horsewoman. She can thank that rank menace of a horse for giving her the opportunity! Just wonderful to see how well they were doing in 2013.
So maybe it was never the horse, as much as the riding. Some horses will take more advantage than others, but still do well with the right rider.
Good for her for sticking with it! It is often the bratty (smart) young horses that become the best competitors once the rider has developed a good partnership with them
I’m surprised people are thinking the kicking out is such a big deal. Honestly…that is a VERY natural horse reaction. Yes, it needs to be addressed. But honestly…that is something just about ALL horses can do. It is the reason when you are a little kid you are taught never to walk behind a horse. It is why you turn a horse to face you with the gate at your back when you turn them out–because horses spinning or bolting and kicking when cut loose is a normal behavior. I have a few of my best competition horses who will kick first and ask questions later. If you startle them…they will kick. And some of my mares, you have to not drop your guard because if you do something they don’t like, yes…they will consider kicking.
It doesn’t make them horrible or dangerous…it makes them horses. And a good horseman is looking for those signs, corrects them before it happens. But when lunging and doing ground work on young horses, having them kick out is VERY normal and something you, as the one on the ground…have to be on your guard about.
In the video, I was concerned for the person videoing as they seemed to potentially be in a bad spot…but then by the lack of change, I thought it could be that the video was set on a tripod or fence line without a person…and the horse was spooking at it (hence kicking out at it).
Yes…there are some horses who will not kick…but I would say it is FAR more common to have a horse who may…and I would not write off a horse who does in the manner of this horse. It looked very normal to me…as someone who has had a lot of green horses. The only issue that I saw was the lack of correction for some of the behaviors which I would have addressed a bit differently…and quicker…but you can’t always judge that by a video that was put together to show how far they had come. Clearly, they are going to pick some of the worst behaviors they have on tape and then some of the good…and no one is perfect when dealing with a horse.
In this area, at least, there a number of local shows that offer open in-hand classes. They tend to be smaller shows that have mostly Western/ English pleasure type stuff (or county/ local fairs), but the are certainly out there-- there are also some hunter breeding classes which are a good place to drag your young horse around.
I have not been around horses as long as some of you but I’ve only run across one horse that would aim at a person and after a few experienced people realized we couldn’t handle her (she ran one person down and kicked another) she was sent to a trainer who spent 4 months making her safe on the ground. She was broke to ride if you can last the first 8 seconds.
It’s a shame as she’s a lovely horse but just not worth the risk.
I’m not sure why people think that with talent comes behavior like this, I feel like they excuse the behavior because the horse has “potential.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFvAFdaHMbg
Some of the behaviors are typical green baby, but when looking at things like the (lack of) lungeing technique/etc…Why is the horse being blamed for the reactions to the rider’s action?
[QUOTE=enjoytheride;7356222]
I’m not sure why people think that with talent comes behavior like this, I feel like they excuse the behavior because the horse has “potential.”[/QUOTE]
This is exactly what gets so many people in trouble with snotty, ill mannered horses.
Insisting on good safe manners and RESPECT for people is the best thing you can teach any horse, talented or not. Because you are just as injured whether the horse hurt you “accidentally” or “on purpose”.
[QUOTE=Stoney447;7355739]
After watching these videos the one thing that I can say is that those ground people are seriously brave. Several times between the videos the horse has kicked out at people on the ground as it bolts away…at this point I would be concerned that it was not just ornery behaviour. I am glad that she got the bottom of his issues and the partnership worked out! Very good riding!
Horses that are reactive are one thing, but ones that seem to have such little respect that they will go so far as to kick at humans are dangerous. Hard to tell if this horse is the former or latter and those kicks I saw were just random and not directed purposefully towards humans…
The kicking thing is a huge issue on my radar right now as I have an OTTB who is not afraid to kick out at people in his stall or in the pasture and it is an absolute pain in the butt (he is perfect under saddle, however, which is the only reason that I am bothering to put him through the ground work boot camp). If I cannot break his behaviour soon though I will have to look for other options for him as I keep my horses at home and I do not like my SO (who loves to help with the horses) around him.[/QUOTE]
That was my biggest issue! That horse had no qualms about kicking out at the ground person.
