Top 25 mare families in the world

[tri]

Drvmb1ggl3, keep in mind that grayarabpony is a teenager (literally) and you know how arguing with teenagers usually pans out.

Showjumpers, thanks for starting the list. There are more out there that are worth taking a look at and analyzing the bloodlines as well as their path to development.

Richard Spooner is indeed very knowledgable about his horses bloodlines. As I posted, he is one of the top riders I think of every time some poster says that “top riders don’t buy young horses” as he does buy foals from his favorite bloodlines to keep for himself as well as 3/4/5 year olds.

It is nice to see the two jumpers with dams from the Twist lines.

Then there is the horses from The Oaks with Ocean II (South Pacific) and on the previous post, the one by South Pacific with the unknown dam.

But if there was ever a real blue hen dam it would be Adith, dam of Here and Now. Adith has had numerous of her foals compete up to GP level. She is dam of Shaman, South Beach (result of breeding Adith to South Pacific, btw), What If, All Fire and a bunch of others - they did a lot of embryo transfers with her and Adith competed at the GP level herself.

Here is a link that has a photo of Adith jumping http://www.syvjournal.com/archive/5/2/5/

[grayarabpony]

@fish;3704521

It’s kind of tough to find “close up” in a horse’s pedigree a stallion who was born 73 years ago! IMO, if we’re ever to take good advantage of our predominately TB mare base, we’ve got to discover which horses are of value for sport that are likely to be truly “close up” in horses that are still alive and fertile NOW.

I have been thinking more about this – the gaps in knowledge about the TBs close up are a real hindrance – didn’t someone on this board come up with a list of American bred horses or TBs who were succeeding in sport?

Tri – I happened to see your above post today – no, I am not a teenager.

[Hillside_H_Ranch]

[QUOTE=EquineLVR;3704927]
Would you mind sharing his insights? I really Mezcalero but that is type of info that is extremely useful when deciding on what stallions suit what mares…[/QUOTE]

I would love to hear those thoughts, either here or by PM. I have a mare in foal to Mezcalero and would like to continue to use him in the future.

[ShowjumpersUSA]

I have a Mezcalero colt that I am madly in love with! I’m just so proud of this boy. He is out of my Saluut II/Merano mare. She is a powerhouse herself, but he brought the legs she needed and even more athleticism. I would use him again on her in a heartbeat. But I put her into sport, so Monterrey is a one and only.

He is so willing to try anything… really trusts me. He is quick to learn and knows when he’s done the right thing.

I couldn’t ask more of any stallion. Based on my experience with Mezcalero, I’d say he is most definitely a prepotent sire. Of course, my mare’s motherline isn’t too shabby either. That’s always helpful.

[Tiki]

they WOULD not approve Hickstead because 1) he is tiny
I have absolutely no dog in this fight. I don’t breed Holsteiners and I don’t do stallions, but this is an absolutely absurd statement. Anyone remember Stroller? at 14.3h. I can’t imagine any reason in the world why a horse would have to be 17h, give or take, to be a good jumper and to be approved by this registry.

[ShowjumpersUSA]

Why do you think so many registries go to the Holsteiner Verband for genes to add to their pool?

There are other very reputable registries for Hickstead. He’s an Olympic Gold medalist… he is a treasure. He just doesn’t belong in the gene pool of the Holsteiner horse. Use him in other registries… he is not going to be an asset to the Holsteiner gene pool. Nothing personal… just the way it is.

[tri]

Stroller? at 14.3h. I can’t imagine any reason in the world why a horse would have to be 17h, give or take, to be a good jumper and to be approved by this registry.

I’ll bite. Because as a breeding registry, they want to breed horses that are over 16 hands???

Why would a shetland pony not be 17 hands? After all, it might have a fluffy mane and a bad attitude! Why shouldn’t it be a shetland pony?

[Tiki]

You’re absolutely right Tri. It’s their registry and they can make any rules they want, but to exclude an Olympic level horse based on size - well… that’s their choice, them’s their rules. It’s not like he’s a pony. Just how tall is he? I’ve seen 16h posted. Do they have to be anything OVER 16h to be approved, so any fraction over can be approved (if they meet the other criteria) but exactly 16 not? Should have left his feet long. :lol:

[S_A_McKee]

@tri;3706071

I’ll bite. Because as a breeding registry, they want to breed horses that are over 16 hands???

There are a lot of Holsteiner Small Junior Hunters so I guess it doesn’t always work out so well for them.

[3Dogs]

There are an increasing number of "small " uber jumpers -

heck, my 14,2 hand pony Not Guilty, was a top jumper pony in the 1960s and guess what, they jumped 5 feet in those days. I think 15.3 - 16.2 is the new ultimate size. Little Big Man, the new horse Laura Chapot shows, ? Bradford? , Hickstead, etc - look at the top 5 at the Bejing games. Tell me their sizes??? What the #$%# is this size issue??

[MagicRoseFarm]

While I appreciate the education on this thread, I sure wish I did not have to wade through the “wannabee experts” who show what they DON’T know every time they open their mouth, clogging the thread with proof.

menopausal rant over
ty and back to our regularly scheduled thread…

[tri]

There are a lot of Holsteiner Small Junior Hunters so I guess it doesn’t always work out so well for them.

Are they holsteiner VERBAND approved stallions? As has already been said, the American Holsteiner Horse Assoc approved the horse and since small juniors aren’t anywhere else other than in the U.S., I am not sure what your point is.?? Are these small juniors AHHA approved stallions? Do you think they should be approved stallions? Do you think a small junior competing at 3’6 in a hunter course is what the Germans are breeding for? Do you think they would be approved and branded if that same horse was in Germany?

I don’t have a dog in this fight either but all the euro warmblood registries have size minimums and i honestly don’t know if the Hols. Verband would approve him/didn’t approve him/because of size or because of another issue or because of several issues or becuase of no issue at all.

I believe Rubinstein was turned down by Westfalia originally, partly due to his small size. He grew some, went to Oldenburg and they approved him albeit reluctently.

Some of you have mentioned some horses competing at high levels that were, what was it? 14.3hands. Don’t you think they would be more suitable for breeding sport ponies if they were going to be presented for some type of approval, or do you really think that a 14.3 hand stallion should be in all the warmblood registries? What would you do if a 14.3 hand stallion was fully approved with the KWPN or Oldenburg Verband or BWP or the Trakehners?

I bet most of you would have something to say if a 14.3 hand stallion was approved with the AWS or the AWR!!!

[MagicRoseFarm]

there ARE a ton of small juniors that are Holsteiners, and many other registries with height restrictions on breeding stock.,… but many forget, when a foal is inspected to get papers… it does not have a neon flashing light growing out of his forehead reporting that it will grow only to 15.3. Only breeding stock gets reinspected when mature.

[S_A_McKee]

@tri;3706598

Are they holsteiner VERBAND approved stallions? As has already been said, the American Holsteiner Horse Assoc approved the horse and since small juniors aren’t anywhere else other than in the U.S., I am not sure what your point is.?? Are these small juniors AHHA approved stallions? Do you think they should be approved stallions? Do you think a small junior competing at 3’6 in a hunter course is what the Germans are breeding for? Do you think they would be approved and branded if that same horse was in Germany?

I thought you were familiar with Hunter divisions. Guess not as you don’t seem to know that stallions aren’t eligible for Junior hunter divisions. Most of these horses DO come from Germany. And yeah, maybe it’s what they were breeding for. They sell a ton of them to Americans. Good market here for Euro Hunters.
To clarify the point. Perhaps they want to breed only horses over 16 hands but it doesn’t seem to be working out that way. They ( and all the other registries) are producing smaller horses. So what? Why is 16 hands a magic number?

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

When you look at the number of small horses that have done very well in jumping at Grand Prix, and how few people would give a smaller horse an opportunity to show its talent, I would bet percentage wise, you might be better off gambling on the little guys.

About a decade? ago, the Show Jumper of the year was a 15.2h horse. I checked out the top (I believe) 20 GP jumpers, and about 1/3 were 16h and under.

[ShowjumpersUSA]

I don’t know why some of you are upset about this. Every breed association or registry… whether horse, dog, cat, cow… whatever… has breed standards. This isn’t new, enacted to spite one particular horse. I’m not a spokesperson for the verband or the AHHA, but I can read their breed standards.

[vineyridge]

@ShowjumpersUSA;3706820

I don’t know why some of you are upset about this. Every breed association or registry… whether horse, dog, cat, cow… whatever… has breed standards. This isn’t new, enacted to spite one particular horse. I’m not a spokesperson for the verband or the AHHA, but I can read their breed standards.

Not upset, but…sport horses are bred for competition, not just for breeding. Most of the other animals you have mentioned are simply bred for conformation competitions. By refusing to accept horses that have proved themselves in the highest levels of competition but are under 16 h or 16.2, a registry loses some powerful heritable talents–jumping is 40% heritable, so one could say that a large proportion of Hickstead’s get have a good chance of inheriting his jumping talent.

Just seems sort of short sighted.

And as Tom said, have they a size upper limit?

[ShowjumpersUSA]

Yes, I agree with you. It makes sense that any sporthorse registry would be eager to have an Olympic gold medalist in their rank and file. There are many highly ranked sporthorse registries to choose from. However, the verband is not a sporthorse registry, it is a breed association. This makes all the difference.

Although the Verband is highly respected throughout the world, some of us here seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding (or rejection?) of it’s breeding goals and principles. This has been hashed and rehashed ad nauseam. Sometimes it’s better to amicably agree to disagree and call it a day.

[andy.smaga]

I don’t have, either, a dog in this fight.
I think that the Holsteiner Verband is free to make whatever decision they like.
I think breeders are free to breed to the stalion they choose, then registering the foal in whatever registry will accept them.
There will be many registries who will accept Hickstead because of his great jumping ability.
I also think that breeders will choose the mare with a size that will complement the size of the stallion.
There are very successful breeding stallions at 16 hands.
I for one will be interested to buy a Hickstead son. I don’t care what registry have issued the papers.

[tri]

I thought you were familiar with Hunter divisions. Guess not as you don’t seem to know that stallions aren’t eligible for Junior hunter divisions.

I guess you don’t know that Hickstead is a STALLION and his approval or not being approved would be FOR BREEDING and I guess you don’t know that the Holsteiner Verband is in Germany or else why would you make a corralation between Small hunters who CAN’T be stallions in a country where the Verband doesn’t operate?

I had a small hunter in my barn that was a quarter horse cross. He could jump 5 foot any day without blinking an eye. Should the Holsteiner Verband approve him? - hey he isn’t even a stallion! See it is totally irrevelent.

As is this continued facination over Hickstead. No one even knows if there has been an official approval or not of Hickstead from the Verband and if he was turned down, was it due to size or not?

Personally, I’d like to know if anyone has any Adith daughters. Reece a while back talked about mare lines and acquiring daughters. An Adith daughter would be one to acquire.