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Top 25 mare families in the world

Sport Horse Breeding
#161

[quote=omare;3703583]
For example, off the top of my head-Thomas Edison is a USA bred xx jumping GP and I think a younger sibling is also already showing great promise; recently there has been two Abdullah mares that have produced USA bred GP horses respectively (the one I can remember off the top of my head is Blue Danube by Pearl Peak (Abdullah)-with younger siblings coming up the ranks); Gem twist’s sister also has a son competing in GP (by Olisco?) For sure, I doubt any of these have the same mare source.

Would you happen to know Thomas Edison’s breeding? Neither Pedigree Query or the JC have a horse under that name.

#162

[QUOTE=omare;3703583]
I am hoping and bettin that USA breeders have developed (and are developing) their own USA based sporthorse mare lines… but they may be too diverse to reach the critical mass to ever get on The List-at least for many years. For example, off the top of my head-Thomas Edison is a USA bred xx jumping GP and I think a younger sibling is also already showing great promise; recently there has been two Abdullah mares that have produced USA bred GP horses respectively (the one I can remember off the top of my head is Blue Danube by Pearl Peak (Abdullah)-with younger siblings coming up the ranks); Gem twist’s sister also has a son competing in GP (by Olisco?) For sure, I doubt any of these have the same mare source.

(by chance an interesting article I found examining a particular xx family in sport http://www.ctba.com/00magazine/aug00/news2.htm)[/QUOTE]

Regarding the article: I love to see Bull Lea close up in a pedigree; he’s close up in a lot of good sportshorse’s lines.

BTW, you’re too modest. You know a great deal.

#163

Thomas Edison is here: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/thomas+edison

#164

Real name–Raejan Runner, unless the mare had two foals in 1999.

#165

Thomas Edison

Sire: Handsome Character

Dam: Love to Kiter

Good list here: https://www.usef.org/_IFrames/pointsAwards/points/pointsDisplay.aspx?year=2008&zone=0&section=3700

#166

I just HATE it when people change names.:yes: No matter how bad the name is keep it. If you’re going to show an unraced TB and you don’t like the name, pay to change it officially, please.

Come to think of it, why doesn’t the USEF have a place to record both registered and show names for a horse? Box A–fill in registered name. Box B–fill in show name. Then the horse could show under his show name, which could be changed with every owner, and the stats could be kept under the registered name (with a lifetime number, of course.)

#167

If the USEF list interests you all, we could each… whoever wants to… take part of it and list sire, dam and registry…and post it here?

Never mind… I did it… see below.

#168

Here is the USEF Leading Breeders list of jumper breeders in the $25,000 GP catagory:

https://www.usef.org/_IFrames/pointsAwards/points/leadingBreeders.aspx?year=2008&viewCat=Jumper

I’ll list the US breeders and their horses until I get too sleepy. I’ve already done this once tonight and lost it when I was posting! I’m not sure how much this list will help, but they are all breeding in the US and the horses are showing GP. Some of these breeders are bringing along multiple horses in lower level jumper classes.

Leading Breeders

Welcome to USEFs new Leading Breeder Rankings. This ranking is based on points earned in licensed USEF competitions. In order to earn points, horses must be recorded with USEF and their owner must be a member. The calculations are determined by using USEFs Horse of the Year point scale. For dressage and eventing point scale click HERE. All other point increments an be found in the USEF Rulebook. We welcome any correction, addition or input you have. Please forward correspondence to kball@usef.org or fax 859-231-6662.

BLUE DANUBE
TRAKEHNER / X
Sire: HAMAR 89.2371
Dam: PEARL PEAK, by ABDULLAH 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 38500
Breeder: Tatra Farm - Clinton Corners, NY

MOET WALK
TB/SELLE FRANCAIS
Sire: OBSCUR II
Dam: DESCENDRESS , by TILT UP 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 16600
Breeder: Tatra Farm - Clinton Corners, NY

SYMPA
RHEINLAND-PFALZ-SAAR
Sire: SABOTAGE 211302110487
Dam: SUMMIT PEAK 041029586, by GALOUBET A 60-011-039J 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 47250
Breeder: Mrs. Ann Daum Kustor - Okaton, SD

MTM REMINGTON
TRAKEHNER
Sire: HAILO OSB-E-S282
Dam: REIGNING FAME, by PRINCE OF FAME 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 30850
Breeder: Ms Patricia B. Metz - Ocala, FL

LIEUTENANT KIJE
HOLSTEINER
Sire: LAURINN 211102117589
Dam: JASMIN II 2102122594, by CAROLUS I 210034486 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 16850
Breeder: Sandstone - Thousand Oaks, CA

APACHE
SELLE FRANCAIS/TB
Sire: MESCALARO
Dam: ESCADA, by UNKNOWN 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 37500
Breeder: Mr. Douglas M White - Yerington, NV

INDY STAR II
SELLE FRANCAIS
Sire: QUICK STAR
Dam: CALANDA, by CALANDO I 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 34950
Breeder: Mida Farm - Wellington FL

JUDGEMENT
ROYAL DUTCH WARMBLOOD
Sire: CONSUL
Dam: FALETTA, by AKTEUR 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 15700
Breeder: Iron Spring Farm - Coatesville, NY

HOLOGRAPHY
SELLE FRANCAIS
Sire: OLISCO 80 404 903 Q
Dam: SOCIETY SECTION, by CLAVIER 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 2250
Breeder: Newsprint Farms - Doylestown, PA

INVITATIONAL
SELLE FRANCAIS
Sire: OLISCO
Dam: COOL TWIST, by GOOD TWIST 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 11850
Breeder: Newsprint Farms - Doylestown, PA

LEONDOR
HOLSTEINER
Sire: LINARO 210068189
Dam: GADIVA 242301111192, by CONDINO 211402100779 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 16450
Breeder: Mrs. Gayle Glisson-Kuhlberg - Oxford, USA

CHAMONIX
HOLSTEINER/THOROUGHBRED
Sire: COLUMBUS
Dam: ROQUETTA , by RULLA ROQUE XX 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 8600
Breeder: Mrs. Elizabeth McElvain - Lemitar, USA

HERE AND NOW
SELLE FRANCAIS
Sire: ALL FIRE / TOUT FEU D’HEX
Dam: ADITH, by LE MEXICO 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 6602
Breeder: Running Creek Ranch - Solvang, CA

PHELOX
VENEZUELA BRED
Sire: DIAMANTE
Dam: TAMBOLADA, by UNKNOWN 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 3725
Breeder: Erika Morales - Davie, USA

TWISTAR
WESTPHALIAN
Sire: STARMAN / CALYPSO 410038779
Dam: HAPPY TWIST 060918382, by GOOD TWIST 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 2250
Breeder: Mrs. Carlene C Blunt - Village of Golf, FL

RIVER OF DREAMS
OLDENBURG/HOLSTEINER
Sire: RIVERMAN
Dam: HALLMARK , by MERANO 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 2250
Breeder: Ms Carol M Lush - Quakake, PA

LULLABY
HOLSTEINER/THOROUGHBRED
Sire: OCEAN II
Dam: CAROLINE, by CHAMPAGNE 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 2000
Breeder: Mrs. Joan Irvine Smith - San Juan Capistrano, CA

BIG AIR
SELLE FRANCAIS/TB
Sire: OLISCO
Dam: DRY CREEK, by WINGED BROOK 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 1800
Breeder: Stars and Bars Farm, Inc - Southern Pines, NC

CENTURION B
BELGIUM WARMBLOOD
Sire: REBEL Z I
Dam: PALOMAG, by INDOCTRO 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 1750
Breeder: Bannockburn Farm - Patricksburg, IN

ENFUEGO
ISR
Sire: ELWAY
Dam: CATALINA 907401494, by CYRANO 210149188 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 1550
Breeder: Gerard Kilgallon - San Diego, CA

ARISTIDE 7
HOLSTEINER WARMBLOOD
Sire: ATHLET Z
Dam: SARISSA, by LORD 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 1350
Breeder: Barbara Kelly - Nicholasville, KY

KATES SQUAD CAR
THOROUGHBRED/HOLSTEINER
Sire: SABOTAGE
Dam: HAVE YOUR SAY, by POLICE CAR 3700: $25,000 PLUS (GR. PRIX) 1250
Breeder: Equine Trading Company - Tarzana, CA

#169

It’s kind of tough to find “close up” in a horse’s pedigree a stallion who was born 73 years ago! IMO, if we’re ever to take good advantage of our predominately TB mare base, we’ve got to discover which horses are of value for sport that are likely to be truly “close up” in horses that are still alive and fertile NOW.

Looking at SJ’s list (thank you SJ), there seem to be a lot of TB crosses doing well in the GP jumpers here. A few stand out as being from TB lines long recognized by H/J breeders (e.g. Good Twist and Clavier). As Bayhawk suggested, too many of the others are most notable for being listed as “unknown.” IMO, we’ve got to make a sincere effort to get to KNOW those “unknown” lines with offspring successfully competeing NOW if we are ever to build a competitive breeding industry.

Looking at that list, too, I can really see where Tri is coming from in her tirades against American breeders wanting to put European labels and papers on their horses. Looking at this list, there really is no way of knowing whether or not a horse is or is not from stock bred (and hence likely to be available) here. Who knows, e.g., how much Ky-bred TB is in some of thost “trakehner” or “Oldenburg” dams, and how much is recent import?

It is nice to see more and more of these lists, though. If I take enough Prozac, I can sometimes even get hopeful that the USEF might actually be working its way up to building a one horse/one number database :slight_smile:

#170

[QUOTE=tri;3703970]
Apache, ahhh, Richard Spooner’s horse - Richard bought Apache when he was 5 years old and, wonders of all! - brought him up the ranks. (also bought another horse from holland about the same time - a 4 year old)

Richard Spooner has a lot of horses and he, wonders again! actually has foals in his barn that he has bought from bloodlines he likes to be his future GP horses.[/QUOTE]

Apache is by Mezcalero , so before I used this stallion, I spoke with Richard at length. I think he understands his horses unbelievably as he was just freely spilling out nuances about the Mezcalero’s he’s ridden. His information actually resulted in me switching mares.

#171

[QUOTE=vineyridge;3704219]

Come to think of it, why doesn’t the USEF have a place to record both registered and show names for a horse? Box A–fill in registered name. Box B–fill in show name. Then the horse could show under his show name, which could be changed with every owner, and the stats could be kept under the registered name (with a lifetime number, of course.)[/QUOTE]

I suggested that earlier, as well. It would be so simple, and make horses so much easier to follow.

#172

Interestingly, Apache’s dam I think I remember reading was an Austrialian or NZ bred xx mare that did the A/O jumpers for her breeder–so All Breed Pedgree might be right.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/apache36

#173

Thank you for researching those lists SJUSA and since we are on both of them I will try to add to the information on this thread.
Centurion B’s Dam Paloma G in KWPN registered and BWP approved . She is by Indoctro out of a mare by Alexis Z by Alme with Pilot on the bottom . She was purchased as a two year old from VDL in the Netherlands .
Centurion B was sold as a 3 year old to a trainer in Chicago for her daughter and she has always been his principal rider. There is a video of him on our graduates page and you will see that he is careful ,does not over jump even though he is only 6 years old and most of his rounds look like a hunter’s round.
Although our Warmblood breeding operation was started with TB mares and we had several classes with only TBs , we now have enough 1/2 TB mares that I love and that produce great babies so we have retired the original mares to the retirement pastures.
We try to produce horses that can carry both Pro and Amateur riders. This enables an Amateur rider to have her horse shown at a higher level by her trainer and then she ( or he ) can ride in the lower classes.
One of the things we try to do which is not always possible if you are in need of funds is to match the right horse with the needs of the rider. I have learned the hard way that if you are trying to fulfill the dream of some teenage girl that she have a GP jumper and she wants to buy a well bred foal to train …it won’t be in either the riders or the horses best interest ,because the starting process and the training process is fraught with frustration and many young riders are just not up to it so the horse will go from owner to owner and because with geldings the papers are frequently not transferred no one will ever know what this horse could possibly have become.
Therefore I have come down to selling to sponsers of riders or trainers or if an amateur calls I ask right away who is their trainer . Most of the time I never hear from them again.
We do not show ourselves as it is almost impossible for the average breeder to keep up the expenses of both breeding and showing. I learned that the hard way when we had Simsalabim on the road.
Finally I am in agreement with all of the breeders who say that we will not really have a sucessful American Warmblood Breeding operation in the USA until we have a better mare base. Breeding is mare driven not stallion driven and until we learn that we will have an uphill climb to compete with Europe.

#174

It’s remarks like this that make posting on this forum a pain.

Since so many top sportshorses have had Bull Lea relatively close up, my remark was not a useless one.

Nor did I say that we should only look for horses with Bull Lea close up in the pedigree.

[QUOTE=fish;3704521]Looking at SJ’s list (thank you SJ), there seem to be a lot of TB crosses doing well in the GP jumpers here. A few stand out as being from TB lines long recognized by H/J breeders (e.g. Good Twist and Clavier). As Bayhawk suggested, too many of the others are most notable for being listed as “unknown.” IMO, we’ve got to make a sincere effort to get to KNOW those “unknown” lines with offspring successfully competeing NOW if we are ever to build a competitive breeding industry.
[/QUOTE]

We don’t need bayhawk to tell us that there are a lot more TB lines that are good for sport than the Bonne Nuit lines. In fact, the question is probably not which lines are good for sport, but which are not!!

Performance needs to be the key to exploring the good mine of sportshorse blood that is here, since we do not have the sportshorse production records and all of the cross-referencing as the Europeans do.

It burns me up to have Americans on this board who breed European warmbloods lecture people on how the TB mare is unsuitable, she’s an unknown, blah, blah, blah…

Breeding is always a gamble. If you breed 2 good horses, you may not get what YOU want, but as long as the horse is sound and athletic and has a decent temperment, the horse may be good for someone doing something else.

#175

[QUOTE=Bayhawk;3704688]
Apache is by Mezcalero , so before I used this stallion, I spoke with Richard at length. I think he understands his horses unbelievably as he was just freely spilling out nuances about the Mezcalero’s he’s ridden. His information actually resulted in me switching mares.[/QUOTE]

Would you mind sharing his insights? I really Mezcalero but that is type of info that is extremely useful when deciding on what stallions suit what mares…

#176

[QUOTE=grayarabpony;3704107]

As for you Terri, your post was childish. In addition, you haven’t been that nice, and I don’t even know where you got the idea that you are.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know why I would allow myself to get sucked into this silliness and not exercise better judgment and ignore, but there’s hardly a nicer and less antagonistic poster on these forums than Terri. You really have some issues. Seriously, step back and take stock. If you were the only poster on this forum, you’d probably start a fight with yourself.

#177

Thank you for this useful information. We have not had to confront this issue yet, but see it looming in future. We were fortunate to have devised a training/competition partnership arrangement with one individual and it has been a partnership made in heaven. We retain 50% ownership of the mare in question for ET or future breeding rights or 50% of resale should that decision be taken. We spoke at great length with the trainer and made sure that we were all on the same page. Also made sure that she endorsed the selection of our horse for her client. We are fortunate that she and her family breed horses from the same registry for jumping as well.
At the same time, we turned down one person for a potential partnership after having talked with her trainer ( a former Olympian). We were thrilled with the trainer but the potential partner seemed to have no inkling of the fact that this was a partnership and that we expected certain guidelines to be adhered to. Much to our dismay, the potential partner was annoyed with us when we demurred.
I do not see how these arrangements will work with a gelding as we would get no “return” on our 50% ownership unless the gelding is sold. But, as I say, we haven’t gotten to that point yet.
Thanks for sharing your experience–it is enlightening.

#178

[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;3704966]
I don’t know why I would allow myself to get sucked into this silliness and not exercise better judgment and ignore, but there’s hardly a nicer and less antagonistic poster on these forums than Terri. You really have some issues. Seriously, step back and take stock. If you were the only poster on this forum, you’d probably start a fight with yourself.[/QUOTE]

Well, that’s your opinion and that’s all it is. I wouldn’t say the stupida$$ things that get me riled on this forum, so I seriously doubt that I would start a fight with myself. :rolleyes:

You have a lot of knowledge of TBs, but your outlook with regard to sport and your abrasive personality quite frankly cancels out any contribution you could make. Why don’t you step back and take stock of that?

And well, Equilibrium has not been that nice. It has upset her that I have disagreed with people she has come here to learn from (which right away makes me say WTF???) Tough bananas. Daydream Believer, Fred, Lavender Farm, omare – they’ve always been nice.

Next time why don’t you stay out of it, until you know what you’re talking about.

#179

But some of the horses on SJ’s list are NOT doing well in GP. They are ranked at the bottom on this list. All you need to do is win 1$ to be on the file.

#180

I hope someone will find another source of information. This USEF list is all I could find last night. I guess we would have to go to the competition results to find top placers… then we’ll need to find the pedigree information and varify they were indeed bred in the US… But, I may be complicating things…

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