Top Dressage Breeding Mares/Mare lines in North America

[Lilly]

[QUOTE=stoicfish;7769194]
How so Lilly?

Is Lilly an alter perhaps? Just noticed that many/most of Lilly’s posts are non-horse related posts in Off topic.
I don’t mind discussing the topic with people that are sincerely interested.[/QUOTE]

You are not very observant in addition to having an inaccurate understanding of genetics. I have posted in other forums too. :rolleyes: Alter accusation, so original.

The X chromosome is only a small part of the genome, and the X chromosome remaining the same is only maintained for one generation, assuming there is no crossing over between X and Y. The stallion passes his Y chromosomes onto his sons, and the X chromosome is only one of two X chromosomes passed onto the mare.

Chemteach, I made no comment about x and y crossing over, although it’s not true that crossing over occurs only in humans, nor did I say mitochondrial DNA is connected to quality of movement.

[stoicfish]

[QUOTE=Lilly;7769303]
[B]You are not very observant in addition to having an inaccurate understanding of genetics. I have posted in other forums too. :rolleyes: Alter accusation, so original.

[/B]The X chromosome is only a small part of the genome, and the X chromosome remaining the same is only maintained for one generation, assuming there is no crossing over between X and Y. The stallion passes his Y chromosomes onto his sons, and the X chromosome is only one of two X chromosomes passed onto the mare.

Chemteach, I made no comment about x and y crossing over, although it’s not true that crossing over occurs only in humans, nor did I say mitochondrial DNA is connected to quality of movement.[/QUOTE]

LOL I’m not observant because I didn’t find your posts on Ponies r us? I said your posts on COTH are mostly Off Topic… and they are. You brought up nothing new or important or contradictory to what I said. The x is around 10% of the genome in this case. It is very important in racing aka eventing and the x may even hold other traits that are important for sport horses and therefore those that actually care about sport horse breeding. And my whole point was how to create a consolidated mare line using the stallion’s influence.

Sorry I interrupted your alter from it’s Off topic Beyoncé or abortion debate. But if you want to add to the topic instead, by all means.
What do you think makes a good dam line and how do you arrive at it from a genetic point of view?

[Lilly]

[QUOTE=stoicfish;7769330]
LOL I’m not observant because I didn’t find your posts on Ponies r us? I said your posts on COTH are mostly Off Topic… and they are. You brought up nothing new or important or contradictory to what I said. The x is around 10% of the genome in this case. It is very important in racing aka eventing and the x may even hold other traits that are important for sport horses and therefore those that actually care about sport horse breeding. And my whole point was how to create a consolidated mare line using the stallion’s influence.

Sorry I interrupted your alter from it’s Off topic Beyoncé or abortion debate. But if you want to add to the topic instead, by all means.
What do you think makes a good dam line and how do you arrive at it from a genetic point of view?[/QUOTE]

Snarky! How charming.

Sure, the X factor is important but as I have already said, the X chromosome really only stays the same for 1 generation, since there will be some amount of recombination between the two X chromosomes in mares. It’s even possible to have some recombination between X and Y.

One arrives at a good mare line by using good mares and good stallions. Using the X factor as an example, a stallion can only get the X factor from his dam, but a mare can get it from either parent or both.

[QUOTE=stoicfish;7756075]
In a way, every stallion choice used, contributes to the mare line. A mare, genetically is 50% her sire and only probably less than 12.5% her great grand dam. But it would could be closer to 25% or more for the dam of the stallion.
I believe the stallion choices reinforce the quality of the dam line. Line breeding works well for that.[/QUOTE]

A mare is not closer to 25% or more to the dam of the stallion, if you are speaking of great grandparents. You are confusing one chromosome with the whole genome. If you are just referring to grandparents then yes. Also, earlier you said that half of a mare’s DNA is redundant. Uh, No.

[QUOTE=Midwest girl in an East coast world;7767652]I would further add…

Don’t forget about the other 31 pairs of chromosomes. Not all genetic material is on the sex chromosome.
And to make this all more baffling- a very small portion of chromosomes is actually devoted to genes (I think in people only2-3%); the rest can control turning genes on and off and probably a lot of other things we don’t know yet![/QUOTE]

Agree with this.

[out_west]

X factor? Not sure what you mean. A mare gets an X from both. But it only gets an unchanged X from her sire. BTW I was agreeing with you stoicfish, my comments were in response to other posters. What I would like to understand is how this translates into motherlines. Any strong lines are likely to carry a number of “good” dominant traits, true for sire or dam.

[Lilly]

[QUOTE=out west;7769520]
X factor? Not sure what you mean. A mare gets an X from both. But it only gets an unchanged X from her sire. BTW I was agreeing with you stoicfish, my comments were in response to other posters. What I would like to understand is how this translates into motherlines. Any strong lines are likely to carry a number of “good” dominant traits, true for sire or dam.[/QUOTE]

X factor is a trait linked to the X chromosome that results in a large heart and increased endurance. I thought everyone knew about it. Google secretariat and X factor.

[out_west]

I’ve studied human genetics, not equine so no, I didn’t know about the X factor.

[out_west]

Population wide individuals receive APPROX. 25% of their DNA from each grandparent the genes on the X chromosome have been amply discussed. But as Midwest girl pointed the sex chromosomes are only one pair out of 32, and although there are a lot of genes on the X, it still is only a small part of the entire genome.

[Lilly]

[QUOTE=out west;7769539]
Population wide individuals receive APPROX. 25% of their DNA from each grandparent the genes on the X chromosome have been amply discussed. But as Midwest girl pointed the sex chromosomes are only one pair out of 32, and although there are a lot of genes on the X, it still is only a small part of the entire genome.[/QUOTE]

Stoicfish was speaking of the great grand dam, not the grand dam, in the post that I responded to, just to clarify. I’ve tried to straighten that out in the post above.

Sorry for the hijack. Just some of the things I read on here were bugging me.

[stoicfish]

[QUOTE=Lilly;7769543]
Stoicfish was speaking of the great grand dam, not the grand dam, in the post that I responded to, just to clarify. I’ve tried to straighten that out in the post above.

Sorry for the hijack. Just some of the things I read on here were bugging me.[/QUOTE]

No I wasn’t

It is if you try and calculate what each grand parent donated to a grand offspring, that is when you can loosely use the 25%. But it can be more or less. However, with the X chromosome, this is bumped up because of the non cross over transition of the x.

Do not misquote me. It is fairly easy to actually read a post. 12.5 is the very approx number for the great grand dam. And yes the offspring is approx. 25% of the grand dam. Try and use full actual quotes from my posts, it will bug you less.

out west- sorry if I was abrupt. Not sure why I was jumped on for this topic. The reason behind this is that one poster was speaking of how only the females transmit the dam line. This is not an uncommon idea among breeders so I thought I would bring up how important the stallion choices can be. Of course a good stallion is important but this brings up some interesting ideas of what stallion choices may mean on a genetic level. Sex balance line breeding is based on this. For eventers, this may big a bigger deal with the big heart gene.

[Lilly]

[QUOTE=stoicfish;7769643]
No I wasn’t

Do not misquote me. It is fairly easy to actually read a post. 12.5 is the very approx number for the great grand dam. And yes the offspring is approx. 25% of the grand dam. Try and use full actual quotes from my posts, it will bug you less.

out west- sorry if I was abrupt. Not sure why I was jumped on for this topic. The reason behind this is that one poster was speaking of how only the females transmit the dam line. This is not an uncommon idea among breeders so I thought I would bring up how important the stallion choices can be. Of course a good stallion is important but this brings up some interesting ideas of what stallion choices may mean on a genetic level. Sex balance line breeding is based on this. For eventers, this may big a bigger deal with the big heart gene.[/QUOTE]

Actually your post wasn’t very clear, because your thoughts on the subject don’t appear to be very clear either. The writing in that post couldn’t have been much worse.

My other points still stand.

[stoicfish]

[QUOTE=Lilly;7770097]
Actually your post wasn’t very clear, because your thoughts on the subject don’t appear to be very clear either. The writing in that post couldn’t have been much worse.

My other points still stand.[/QUOTE]

It was very clear to people that understand the subject. You seem to have no points to contribute but to misquote my posts. Have a great day!

[Lilly]

Trying reading for comprehension, then those points might sink in. You are hardly a bastion of knowledge on genetics. Since I’m not really interested in reading incorrect posts by people, with minus posts for attitude, welcome to ignoreland.

[stoicfish]

[QUOTE=Lilly;7770215]
Trying reading for comprehension, then those points might sink in. You are hardly a bastion of knowledge on genetics. Since I’m not really interested in reading incorrect posts by people, with minus posts for attitude, welcome to ignoreland. :)[/QUOTE]

Really? You have done nothing else on this thread, including contribute. I shall miss you.
Back to topic…

[Bent_Hickory]

[QUOTE=stoicfish;7769059]
You keep bring up the stallions male offspring which really show you are missing the point in a huge way, are not familiar with the topic and have no wish to learn.[/QUOTE]

Do stallions pass the X-chromosome to their male offspring? It’s a rhetorical question - I know the answer.

If stallions don’t pass any genetic material from their X-chromosome to their male offspring, then stallions are at an immediate disadvantage (maybe by as much as 10% considering various factors) in relation to mares in passing along their dam’s genetic material. If fact, none of this “important” genetic material on the X-chromosome is passed along by the stallion to his male offspring whereas the mare has at least some opportunity to pass along at least a portion of her dam’s X-chromosome to her male offspring.

Moral of my story, stallions fail to transmit their dam line as well as mares can.

Hmmmmm… The moral of my story would appear to be at direct odds with yours.

Unless you’re going to stand by your word and not respond to my posts, please refrain from personal attacks – it doesn’t really advance the discourse.

[stoicfish]

[QUOTE=Bent Hickory;7770543]
Do stallions pass the X-chromosome to their male offspring? It’s a rhetorical question - I know the answer.

If stallions don’t pass any genetic material from their X-chromosome to their male offspring, then stallions are at an immediate disadvantage (maybe by as much as 10% considering various factors) in relation to mares in passing along their dam’s genetic material. If fact, none of this “important” genetic material on the X-chromosome is passed along by the stallion to his male offspring whereas the mare has at least some opportunity to pass along at least a portion of her dam’s X-chromosome to her male offspring.

Moral of my story, stallions fail to transmit their dam line as well as mares can.

Hmmmmm… The moral of my story would appear to be at direct odds with yours.

Unless you’re going to stand by your word and not respond to my posts, please refrain from personal attacks – it doesn’t really advance the discourse.[/QUOTE]

I am seldom personal at all in my posts. But I have an huge intolerance for rudeness. I really do not mind discussing the topic if your sincere about this.

We are speaking of dam lines. It came up as one poster stated:

I for one believe strong mare lines continue through daughters due to the mitrochrondrial DNA that is only passed along the direct mother line. A stallion can’t pass this along.

This just got me thinking how important the stallions and why.

A dam line only consists of females, right? Not being snarky, just trying to discuss this. When speaking of how to continue a dam line of good quality, the point was that the stallion is able to contribute approx. 10% non recombined genes to his female offspring, which are the only ones that matter for a dam line. The rest of the genes are recombined. All of the mares have a chance of recombination.
Once again we are speaking of a dam line, none of a mares male offspring are considered part of the dam line. They are irrelevant.

I don’t know how else to say this. What a stallion passes on to his male offspring is irrelevant to a dam line…as there are no males in a dam line by definition. If we were speaking of general population…you would be right. But we are not, and I never did.

In trying to maintain a dam line, the stallion actually can play a huge part, especially if he came from the same dam line. Breeding is somewhat random but as a breeder you want to stack the deck. This is one way of doing that.

[stoicfish]

Actually, the mares male offspring only matter in a dam line if…they are the stallion that is used to maintain (not part of) a dam line. I correct myself. Most will likely be geldings.

Once again, this is just to show how important a stallion choice is in maintaining a dam line and how it is important, genetically.