Top Eventer breeding

[jhodkin]

Drumbiggle you are spot on… the rankings are almost meaningless as you quite rightly pointed out. So many horses are missing off the list because the breeding hasn’t been properly recorded on entry forms or event returns. As you rightly say Winsome Adante has not been included forEVER… his and many other horses registered with SHB(GB) or HIS as it was then are not being included which would have a significant impact on which stud books ranked at the top.

I take the WBFSH ranking with a pinch of salt for eventing because I’m aware of the masses of information missing on top rank horses.

Tom - I’m not disagreeing about Showjumping - this is a thread about event horse breeding. The bottom line is that the perception of many of the top riders (and owners I might add) is that the warmblood cross didn’t work for eventing as well as the irish cross for 2 reasons:

1. The didn’t have the ‘guts’
2. They didn’t stay sound

Disclaimer: CAN I STRESS THAT THESE ARE THE VIEWS THAT HAVE BEEN EXPRESSED TO ME BY RIDERS & OWNERS & ARE NOT JUST ME AIRING A PERSONAL OPINION.

…and I am NOT saying that every WB x TB is gutless and lame. I am just trying to provide the background to my earlier comment.

I am also talking about 4* horses here, not amateur horses. I’m sure that WB x TB horses will make excellent rides at the lower levels. On a personal level I’m not completely anti-WB in event breeding, after all I have some of it in my breeding programme, but for me the ideal is no more than 1/4, or preferably 1/8 WB. That bit IS my personal opinion

Love to all TB, WB and TB x WB owners everywhere. Our horses are all lovely Lets have a group hug

[Mary_in_Area_1]

Wow! What a dam line on your mare! Can we see pics of her and her babies? Who are you breeding her to?

[Janet]

Janet, I cannot wait to see your guy when he’s three. I am sure he’s going to be special!

I am INTENDING to take advantage of the “renew your print subscription, get a Premium BB membership”. Then I can post some pictures.

Current plan is to show him on the line at the CDCTA breeding day (eventing breeding, DSHB, and hunter breeding), so I should be get some good pictures then.

[Lily5453]

I just got the video for carrig view… I have to say after watching it that he is very typical Irish. He is quite heavy, and does not have the movement a warmblood would. . I woudl also worry about speed with him, I think his best crosses would be with TB mares (STRAIGHT TB not Tb crosses).

[Policy_of_Truth]

Besides the bloodlines mentioned, for those who purposefully breed for eventers, what TB bloodlines do you like/use?

What bloodlines make one say “that horse has good eventer bloodlines”?

[hey101]

This is all very interesting- I feel like I’m learning so much and I’ve dug up all my horse’s pedigrees to find out I have lots of Bold Ruler, Mr. Prospector, Buckpasser, and Native Dancer in my guys. Kind of exciting.

It seems like I read that lots of the top eventers are really starting to go for Irish blood. who are some good Irish stallions in the US for crossing w/ TB’s? I know Carrig View stands and he just won the Morven Park CCI* last fall- are his progeny starting to compete, and how are they doing? Any other Irish stallions to note for eventer breeding?

[Drumbiggle]

Olympics

2004
G Shear l’Eau IRE ISH Stan the Man (TB) Starry Night (ISH) Carnival Night (TB)
S Winsome Adante GB BSH Saunter (TB) Juswith Genoa (BSH) Bohemond (TB)
B rimmore’s Pride GB BSH May hill (TB) Primmore Hill (BSH) Ben Faerie (TB)

2000
G Custom Made IRE ISH Basompierre (TB) Purple Heather (ISH) Ben Purple (RID)
S Swizzle In USA TB??? Ante Over (TB) Marlies ??? Vale of Tears (TB)
B Eye Spy NZ NZSH Straight Strike (TB) Black Emerald (NZSH)

96
G Ready Teddy NZ TB Brilliant Invader (TB) Double Summer (TB)
S Squirrel Hill NZ TB Telereign (TB) Mrs Phipps
B Out and About US TB L’amour Rullah (TB) Incardine (TB)

92
G Kibah Tic Toc AUS Hann-ASH Domherr (Hann) Aus Stock Horse
S Feine Dame GER Hols Diplomat (TB) Werina (Holst) Anblick (TB)
B Messiah NZ TB Aberlou (TB) Portia (TB)

[jilltx]

Blue Yonder…love your site and your new guy!

[btilton]

As a general rule, I don’t mention the Nasrullah, Nearco, or Bold Ruler lines because its quite difficult to find a TB in the U.S. that doesn’t have that lineage somewhere. Its kind of like saying you like the lineage of the Burley Turk and the Goldophin Arabian… its almost a given

They were incrediably popular animals in breeding, and have made their way to the sport horse ranks in numbers. I tend to look for a less common donominator that makes this one small and hot and this one big and laid back.

B

[btilton]

It’ll be interesting if you get them sold before they are under saddle…

Now I had a ton of interest in my ISH girl by parents of eventer kids because of her breeding and she was kid safe to boot, and had some experience cross country, but most didn’t want to pay what the hunter people would pay. She ended up in a hunter home…
B

[holsteinersrock]

Caro was FANTASTIC in sport horse breeding. Too bad he is long gone and progeny is hard to find.

Together with Damascus blood (Mokhieba and company) and Secretariat for looks, Caro is up there with my all time favorite TB sport horse sires.

For type and dressage there is also Lauries Crusador xx in Germany, but I think he is retired from stud now and did not contribute much jump. Gorgeous, however, and has sired a number of outstanding dressage sons!!!

Anna
www.westwiththewind.com

[Janet]

The following TB lines I’ve known for their toughness/soundness:
Mr. Prospector

You will find arguments both ways wrt Mr.Prospector and soundness.

[Mary_in_Area_1]

Yes, Caro is descended from Grey Sovereign. My Loyal Pal filly therefore comes from that line on her sire’s side, and from Royal Charger/Turn-to on her dam’s side.

Can’t WAIT to breed HER!

[Drumbiggle]

I’ll add the WEG and OG and more badminton when I have time to format it properly. Please fill in any holes.

[Mary_in_Area_1]

Robby,

Hayley is here: http://www.denlorephoto.com/huntington05/sun/dressage1/index.html

look at hlt100.jpg, and 101, 103, 105 and 107.

Cute, huh?

Denny is so proud. She looks just like Loyal Pal. She was Area 1 BN Champion and is turning 6 this year Yikes!

[Lily5453]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jhodkin:

For me breeding is long term… you can’t afford to breed to ‘fashions’ because by the time your ‘product’ is ready to be ridden, the fashion has changed. IMHO you need to focus on breeding athletic scopey horses with a gallop. No matter how the sport changes (unless they reduce the length of the xc) on the whole the 4* events will be won by horses with lots of TB blood. There are always exceptions to this, but I’m talking in the main. If you speak to the top riders ‘off the record’ they will tell you that regardless of the change to short format they still want to be sat on the same type of horse.

QUOTE]

I’m hoping I got the best of all worlds, 1/2 TB 1/2 mix of warmblood and ISH (not confirmed to be completely ID, so potentially more TB in there)

I do agree no matter what you are going to need a good portion TB or a REALLY special warmblood, to make time if nothing else. TB’s also have amazing heart…the ability to keep going no matter what (to a fault almost). Time is just so difficult, and if you are wasting that time putting together a heavy horse for a big *#&#$ fence… well, your jobs is twice as hard…

I’m interested to see where this sport goes in the future.

[Robby_Johnson]

Originally posted by Mary in Area 1:
Robby,

Hayley is here: http://www.denlorephoto.com/huntington05/sun/dressage1/index.html

look at hlt100.jpg, and 101, 103, 105 and 107.

Cute, huh?

Denny is so proud. She looks just like Loyal Pal. She was Area 1 BN Champion and is turning 6 this year Yikes!

She is so cute! I cannot believe it. Love her! Wow! Congratulations. I knew her when …

Yes, doh, talk about brain freezes … Galileo. I remembered her real name, just not her SN!

Robby

[Fred]

Originally posted by unrequited:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by jhodkin:
My choices might be different because I’m in the UK, but I love to see …Tudor Minstrel…

The Tudors that made their way to Canada are finding a nice niche in horse sport. A few of the mares are really kicking ass in the warmblood mare inspections. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My good TB mare Macassa (dam of My Romance, her first foal) - her sire Same Direction (by Vice Regent) is out of an English mare called Snowmount by Sallymount who is by Tudor Minstrel. Macassa herself is a big. lanky athletic and powerful girl who crashed on the racetrack (literally) - but looks like she was born and bred to event.

[btilton]

Irish horses have been bred to do eventing for a long time. I think most of your top ones are 1/4 bred or 1/8th bred. The ID just seems to ad a dash of soundness, bone, boldness and mind that takes the hot and foward of the TB and mixes it with other good eventing qualities.

They do not have warmblood movment, though they can easily be trained to compete in dressage with correct gaits, but I doubt we’ll see an extended trot in an ID that looks a bit like a circus trick… but that’s what the big time dressage movement goes for. I’d think in eventer breeding you’d take clean quality gaits and trainablity and boldness over jumps before a flashy extended trot, or lofty uphill canter.

If you were wanting to add that dash of ID, there are several 1/2 bred stallions to chose from in the U.S. I agree that the half breds even from TB mares that “I” have seen were still not the fastest critters on the block.

However, Mountain Pearl, a purebred stallion has been in U.S. for a good while and has several older stock going. Several are doing well in eventing and one was some sort of young eventing horse champion last year. I am sure the story is on their web page.

All that said, I have also meet TB stallions that were soooo laid back and trainable that I wouldn’t hesitate to put an decent TB mare to him for sport. Warmbloods I go either way on. I think a lot of the low TB percentage ones are pretty slow too. They may move lighter than an ID stallion, but its up and down more, and also, they don’t (IMO only) have the same work ethic, you have to ‘ride’ them more than the TB’s or the ID crosses.

I haven’t spent too much time looking at the warmblood stallions that are more “modern” or TB’dy, or high % TB, because that defeats the purpose, for me, of putting my TB mares to them…
B

[Drumbiggle]

Btw, if you look at the top 6 rated Hannoverian eventers, according to FEI…

FRH Serve Well (1994) by Sherlock Holmes
Air Jordan (1995) by Amerigo Vespucci xx
Butts Leon (1997) Heraldik xx
FRH Little Lemon B (1991) by Lemon xx
FRH Dusty Ches (1991) by Dynamo
Leonas Dancer (1991) by Solo Dancer xx

4 of them are by TB stallions. So when the WB want to breed an eventer they more often than not put the TB on top.