"Top lady riders in the world..." Why the distinction?

[StrongLegsSoftHands]

I’ve been watching the fantastic live coverage Longines Royal International Horse Show at Hickstead and have been, for the most part, really enjoying the commentary. I don’t know who the commentators are, but when Laura Kraut came in to start her round, they seemed to have a special need to emphasize that she is one of the top LADY riders in the world, and ranked 38th overall. They gave the same special emphasis when Beezie Madden and Penelope Leprevost. But I didn’t hear Whitaker or Minikus being singled out as top MALE riders…

Is this distinction really necessary? As far as I know, there isn’t any separate official show jumping ranking based on sex. In fact, I think one of the elements that makes our sport so unique is that men and women compete against each other, as equals. Does this kind of talk raise any flags or bother anyone else? Was it just another way to fill the silence in the broadcast? Or is there a valid reason for these comments?

[mvp]

No, it’s not necessary.

I think you are hearing the age and/or culture of the announcer.

[StrongLegsSoftHands]

Just heard: “Is it going to be a lady one-two?” and “These girls are really flying around here!”

Maybe at this point I’m just over sensitive to it, but frankly, it seems weird.

Edit: Congrats to Beezie regardless!

[woodhillsmanhattan]

I agree, definitely not necessary. What is great about this sport is the equal competitiveness and playing field regardless of male and female. These ladies are GREAT riders. Period. Not “good for a girl” (the announcer didn’t say that, I am just generalizing here)…but that being said, I think Beezie is the only female in the top 10 global rankings right now. It’s just a numbers game really. There are more male riders at the ranked international level currently than females. Not because males are better riders than females. There are just more of them.

On a similar note. I <3 Beezie!

[mvp]

[QUOTE=StrongLegsSoftHands;8254684]
Just heard: “Is it going to be a lady one-two?” and “These girls are really flying around here!”

Maybe at this point I’m just over sensitive to it, but frankly, it seems weird.

Edit: Congrats to Beezie regardless![/QUOTE]

It’s only going to be a couple of minutes before someone tells you that that kind of minor, linguistic sexism is you being over-sensitive.

I don’t know whether language or money/politics leads. But until we pay women on par with me, I’m intolerant of any form of sexism, no matter how minor. Pay me (the general, female me) equally for an equal job, promote me equally, share equally in the rearing of children and I’ll STFU about what announcers call riders.

[JustJump]

But wait–there AREN’T more boy riders than girl riders in the sport!

But…and at the top of the sport, though the girls still in the game are JUST as good as the boys, there are fewer of them. Therefore, it is remarkable when one comes in the ring, no matter how great they are.

In fact, does it not strike anyone as odd that in a sport that is overwhelmingly ‘female’ at the bottom, that more ‘ladies’ don’t break through to the top?

This is often talked about, but I haven’t seen it talked about recently.

[omare]

Maybe by talking about “lady” riders it is just emphasizing it is one of the few sports men and woman compete on equal grounds–it is what makes horse sports unique in all sports.In addition this venue might be one of the few still with a “lady” GP?

P.S. As far as women percentages at the top --it is based on sponsorship–and as in many areas men tend get the money/support–same in the corporate world etc.

[LucyShow]

[QUOTE=omare;8254791]
Maybe by talking about “lady” riders it is just emphasizing it is one of the few sports men and woman compete on equal grounds–it is what makes horse sports unique in all sports.In addition this venue might be one of the few still with a “lady” GP?

P.S. As far as women percentages at the top --it is based on sponsorship–and as in many areas men tend get the money/support–same in the corporate world etc.[/QUOTE]

And you also have to remember that it´s not too long ago that the FEI rule that let female riders keep their rankingpoints while being pregnant came.

And they´ll have to have nice owners that allows the horses to be ridden/competed by other riders/bereiters for a while.

Just read that Angelica Augustsson ( top swedish rider working in Belgium at Ashford Farm) is pregnant and had her last competition yesterday. Her horses will be ridden by her husband Marlon Zanotelli (brazilian toprider) and other riders at Ashford Farm. Not everyone that has such backup riders

[Dewey]

You’re not being overly sensitive. Singling someone out as a “lady rider” is jarring to a modern ear and is sexist. There isn’t any need as women compete with men on equal terms and have for years. It’s not as if Laura and Beezie are some sort of trailblazers. One more thing: imo, the words “lady” and “girl” in this context makes the distinction even more jarring. They are women competing with men.

With that said, the sport of showjumping did often make distinctions between men and women, especially, I think, in Europe. Someone who knows more can correct me. I believe some shows offered a prize for the “top lady rider” but not the “top male rider” as if succeeding at the sport while being female was something worth noting. Maybe it was then. Remember, too, that the George V Cup wasn’t open to women at all until recently.

This isn’t a show-jumping example, but in eventing, Lana DuPont had to overcome a lot of opposition in order to ride on the US eventing team in the 1964 Tokyo Olympics. When she fell on cross-country, a lot of people said this showed that the sport was “too rough for girls.”

There probably is some physical reason more of the top competitors in show jumping are men. Maybe their upper-body strength gives them an advantage. But the top women have shown repeatedly that they can compete on equal terms, and there isn’t any need in this day and age to refer to them as “top lady riders.”

[LucyShow]

@Dewey;8255601

With that said, the sport of showjumping did often make distinctions between men and women, especially, I think, in Europe. Someone who knows more can correct me. I believe some shows offered a prize for the “top lady rider” but not the “top male rider” as if succeeding at the sport while being female was something worth noting. Maybe it was then. Remember, too, that the George V Cup wasn’t open to women at all until recently.

No prizes for top female rider in Sweden at least.

I know that there is a female German Championship but also a male version. Evi Penzlin (Rolf-Goran Bengtsson soon to be wife) is this years female jumper winner. I don´t think that it´s frequented by any of the toptop german riders though female or male.

http://www.worldofshowjumping.com/Regional-Championships/Denis-Nielsen-and-Evi-Penzlin-German-Champions-2015.html

Fun fact: Meredith Michaels Beerbaum had a clinic in Sweden a few years ago and the guy who was hosting/commenting asked Meredith how she wanted to be introduced. She answered “Oh, just introduce me as MMB - the best female rider of all times”.

[findeight]

For many of us on here, memories exsist of few women at the top, few women trainers and even no women in some disciplines. It’s still relatively new and much more common here then in some other countries whose top riders and teams remain mostly male.

I agree the commentary is over the top for a modern competition in the USA but the show is not in the USA and the commentator is not a young American.

[vineyridge]

I was more jarred by the description of them as “lady riders”. Here we’d probably say “female” or “women”. “Lady” means something other than mere gender to me.

IIRC, HIckstead does or did give a prize to the top female rider.

[Dewey]

[QUOTE=findeight;8255632]
I agree the commentary is over the top for a modern competition in the USA but the show is not in the USA and the commentator is not a young American.[/QUOTE]

Yes, this is it in a nutshell, I think. American sensibilities are probably different.

[findeight]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8255644]
I was more jarred by the description of them as “lady riders”. Here we’d probably say “female” or “women”. “Lady” means something other than mere gender to me.

IIRC, HIckstead does or did give a prize to the top female rider.[/QUOTE]

Different strokes…particularly in a culture that still harkens back to Victorian manners in formal situations.

[ladyj79]

We wouldn’t say “female” in my classroom! I am forever up against a rap culture where women are “de-speciated”. I hate that. Women, ladies, not female.

[Dewey]

“Female” is fine as an adjective–I agree, not acceptable as a an alternative to “woman” or “girl.”

[Pennywell_Bay]

I agree with F8 in regards to the commentary. I will admit, it does not bother me. I guess partially because of the cultural difference, and partly because I feel that though the equestrian sport is a great equalizer of the sexes, it is not offensive “to me” to pay homage (so to speak) to the women at the top of our sport. Women didn’t participate in the equestrian part of the Olympics until the 1950s so it doesn’t bother me to call it out when a woman is rocking it.

[ParadoxFarm]

Benevolent sexism is alive and well here in the U.S. as well. I find it especially true here in the south (I’m in TN). Studies show it’s a way to show women as being subordinate to men. I do think as the younger generation gets older, we’ll see less of it. I hope so, anyway! I don’t call men, “little boy”, so don’t call me “little girl”. And women, if it bugs ya, tell them (respectfully, of course!).

[ladyj79]

Whereas my southern boys always want to call me “ma’am”.

Please don’t call me ma’am, it makes me feel old.

Yes, ma’am! Errrrr sorry ma’am!

Sigh.

[sockmonkey]

Part of it is definitely the generation of the announcers, but also that they are British and the British give out awards at nearly every big event for “Lady Riders.” And they are called specifically “Lady Riders.”
Plus, Beezie had the audacity of winning the King George when everyone knows only men are supposed to win that, silly woman