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[StormyDay]

@sajast1

I guess I’m looking for some validation or gentle perspective. I began searching for my first horse purchase a month or so ago. I’ve leased in the past and I’ve ridden for years and currently volunteer at my barn to work with the yearlings. My first love is trail riding but there are NO trails where I live. Im lucky to have found the one barn near me that offers genuine turnout - land is such a premium. So I ride dressage instead as I have absolutely no interest in jumping and I did the saddleseat thing for a while, have driven, etc but dressage keeps me me more interested. Anyway. I’ve been saving for YEARS. I finally have sufficient job stability to pull the trigger and I’m not getting any younger. My issue: I’m spending a lot, for me, on this future horse. So I want the horse to check several boxes. Breed wise I want a friesian or friesian cross because I adore their temperament and many are built for dressage. Unfortunately they are crazy expensive once trained and I can only afford the young ones (weanling/yearling). I am also picky about temperament ESPECIALLY for a baby - I love brave and inquisitive and calm and I will hard pass on anything remotely pushy/nippy/twitchy/spazzy/overly sensitive as that’s very incompatible with my anxiety. They need to be halter broke and at least started on baby basics. Love black but hate feathers. No tanks - prefer modern build over baroque. I’m working with a trainer and they felt as though I was being pretty reasonable given my budget but how much of that was “the customer is always right” I don’t know. I do know friesians aren’t common to begin with so I was expecting a bit of a wait, but my trainer vetoes every ad/horse I find for one reason or another. So it’s making me think I’m being too unreasonable in my want list? I don’t care about gender, as long as they aren’t less than 14.3 hands then final height is fine, I can forgive colors other than black for the right temperament (chestnuts and I never seem to do well together though) as well as a baroque build and I’m not automatically excluding low double digit old horses if they’re within budget. I dunno, just feels a little disheartening that I haven’t even been out to look at one yet. I guess I just keep saving in the meantime lol.

ETA: It seems like the consensus is both going for friesian/x and good brained youth are what people are pointing out the most as unreasonable. In my initial post I was probably being too specific ie feathers. I’m really not worried about the youth aspect though (read posts below) and I 100% know the risks - they could wind up downhill, hate dressage, etc. like I said in another post, even a 4-5yo is a risk albeit less of one. And I am way past “more whoa than go” (but that doesn’t mean I enjoy riding those crazy hot horses ). I’ve just always loved the friesian gait/temperament so when it came time to buy, that’s the first breed at the very very top of my list. You know how some people are just in love with a breed? Whether it’s QHs or OTTBs, friesian is mine. Never met one I didn’t like.

Friesians aren’t exactly known for their ammy friendly temperament, and almost every one I have met and worked with was an absolute terror in their first years of life. Not spooky, but way too smart and if you give an inch they will take a mile.

(For instance, at a place I worked at they had a 3 year old. I was always fair but stern with her, and because of that she respected me and we never had a problem. But she didn’t respect the woman’s son, and if she ever felt that he was too slow or too stupid, she would kick him right in the behind. She also would steal his hat, bite him, etc. That man ended up with a lot of bruises)

So, my point is that basically all friesians act like little shits when they are young, so you are starting off trying to find a unicorn personality in a relatively obscure breed. Throw in your other wants and that makes for a very difficult order.

I think that if you won’t consider other breeds, you will need to save up for longer so you can afford one that’s at least 6 years old and started under saddle to get what you want.

[soloudinhere]

If you’ve had contact with this many friesian babies that you can definitively say that you’re in love with their movement/temperament, I would think you’d have a connection with a breeder who would have something to offer you?

Consider that if you don’t, because that breeder’s young stock is out of your price range, that your price range is probably not sufficient to get the qualities you want because not all horses in a breed are the same by any means.

Personally, as a dressage rider and person who buys a fair number of young-ish horses and attends a lot of the larger rated dressage shows to ride and/or bring my sales horses…I have never met a friesian I liked or felt was quality for dressage. You do you, of course, but I would not be in the least surprised to find that a friesian with sufficient movement/temperament for doing dressage was possibly the worst trail horse ever.

Trying to find an exceptional individual that defies breed characteristics is usually a very tall order, regardless of the breed in question.

[luvmyhackney]

This is my experience as well with the breed. I’ve handled many and ridden babies up to teenagers and they are all about some fun, great sense of humor, and love to catch air under saddle or harness. There are exceptions but most don’t grow a brain until at least 4 and not what I’d consider for an inexperienced ammy.

Don’t know your budget but unless your already riding the high levels in dressage, majority of horses that aren’t put together perfectly can do the job you want and make it to second level. Your trainer might want to not look for her next superstar and just focus on an older decent mover that is already doing the job.

A 14 year old horse can easily do the job you want and would suit your needs way better than a yearling you can’t even ride. If you have anxiety, a younger horse will totally feed off of it. Get an older been there done that and enjoy riding.

[sajast1]

So I’ve mostly been looking at classified type ads because I don’t feel like I need the fancy pedigree and a friesian cross is fine for me. As long as they’re built for it and have a good temperament I’m set. My trainer somewhat disagrees with this approach and wants to find the better pedigrees with proven results but not many of last year’s crop is still out there in my price range. My trainer is also more mistrustful of others and how they handle their yearlings than I am so that limits breeders. I’m willing to at least meet them as that’s how I gauge whether they’re too spazzy or Extra for me. So I know that’s been a hang up as well. They are being way more picky than I am. I’m like, this guy is cute, she has good shoulders, love his trot, etc. But that’s probably not a bad thing. I don’t think?

[luvmyhackney]

You can do groundwork with any age horse and you specifically said you wanted to do trails and dressage, so I thought you might like a horse to ride now vs 3 years from now.

[StormyDay]

@sajast1

Why is everyone so hung up on the riding? Working with yearlings is FUN. Groundwork is FUN. I like the process of learning and teaching. Sometimes when it’s too hot to really ride in the summer I’ll take the lesson horse I’m on and work on turning on the haunches/forehand (really just getting them to cross their legs for even 1 step). These horses don’t do that kind of thing under saddle so it’s a learning process and it’s fun. And holy cow do some of them struggle with stiff stiff shoulders which is a whole other issue.

Because you can seriously mess up a yearling or get messed up by one. If you are not firm but fair with a yearling, especially one from a breed known for being difficult in their first years, you will get hurt or end up with a spoiled unworkable mess.

[lenapesadie]

So a purebred Friesian built for sport is likely also bred for sport. If these horses also possess a good temperament, they are quite expensive.

Cross bred horses don’t have the same proven breeding outcomes. If a crossbred horse is built for sport and also possesses a good temperament, he’s likely not cheap.

I wouldn’t describe my Friesian cross as stubborn whatsoever. Not even as an almost two year old stud colt. He is rather sensitive though. I consider him to be textbook amateur friendly. I am an amateur and I bred, started and showed him myself.

He only cracked one of my ribs and came back for me after we parted ways. On a trail ride to be sure

Your idea of amateur friendly or acceptable young horse shenanigans may vary.

[soloudinhere]

I have warmbloods and German riding ponies, mostly, but I also do a fair number of first/second level horses for kids to ride. Currently in the barn are a Hanoverian, a holsteiner, and a 1/2 Arab, 1/2 qh.

I’m confused by your comment that TBs are popular. I mean they are, in general, but as dressage horses they’re out there but relatively rare. I guess they are more common that friesians, but I probably see more Arab crosses, pony types, and even a few fjords at the shows.

As for my comment about trail horses - well yes the stamina is bad but I meant more that the general stubborn temperament mixed with some spooky/sensitive is not the ideal choice for a trustworthy trail horse.

Look, are these horses out there? Sure. Friesians are rare and crosses are even rarer. An F1 cross that is not a disaster is even rarer still. And the overall horse market is hotter than ever. None of this will combine to give you an extensive list of options.

[soloudinhere]

I’m officially confused by your posts because you specifically specified that biter, rude, etc was not compatible with your anxiety but then started posting that you train yearlings and are fine with rude bitey behavior as long as it’s not “Extra” whatever that means.

Whatever they are the day you meet them at someone else’s barn really tells you very little about how they’ll be when you change their whole routine, especially when they’re 1. Saying that you can determine if they’re “spazzy” then is probably a dangerous assumption.

Signed, my 4yo who is 95% of the time an angel was an absolute toddler terrorist today and acting like he’d never been handled before.

[McGurk]

I think everyone else has addressed the breed specifics and suitability issues, so I’m going to focus on something more basic: buying an unbacked youngster or a very green horse for a first horse is a pretty terrible idea and highly unlikely to end well.

@sajast1

Also, trainer really makes same amount of money either way - buy a baby = less upfront = less commission = more training or buy a 4-5 yo+ and more $ upfront = more commission = less overall training.

This formula is incorrect because it fails to take into account 4 or 5 years of paying board and expenses on a horse that you aren’t riding OR the basic premise of professionals bringing up horses for resale can put the mileage and training on a young horse much cheaper than you can because they have the experience and the facility to do so.

If you buy a baby, board it in a high COL area and are paying board and a trainer to work with it, you will have a 4 year old that you have double or triple what it is worth invested in it. And you still might not be able to ride it. If you were a person with an unlimited budget and you were insisting that you wanted the experience of working with a young horse, I’d still think it was a bad idea, BUT you don’t have an unlimited budget, you indicated that it’s taken you some time to save up the purchase price. This makes this a really, really bad idea.

My gentle suggestion is not to give up on your dream but to take some incremental steps to get there. Consider leasing a dressage schoolmaster for a while. The horse that you need to be riding right now is not the horse you want to own long term, and that’s fine. As a matter of fact, consider a series of short term leases so you build your experience. Continue to save for your dream horse. If you really want a Friesian, hold out for the Friesian. But make a good medium range plan to get you there.

ETA: You also need to reset your expectations on time frame. I know lots of people who have searched for up to a year to find the right horse, with fairly reasonable expectations and budget, and I am in a very good horsey area.

[Tarlo_Farm]

@sajast1

I love brave and inquisitive and calm and I will hard pass on anything remotely pushy/nippy/twitchy/spazzy/overly sensitive as that’s very incompatible with my anxiety.

This is the biggest of the many red flags I read in your post.

Anxiety + babies = disaster

Other flags are your concern about color, feathers, and breed. We all have favorite breeds. That doesn’t mean we own one.
It seems you have some experience with both riding and handling horses, but there is something that doesn’t sit right with me. I’m asking this sincerely: Do you often find in the rest of your life you have unrealistic expectations?
Have you priced horses that are not Friesians or Friesian crosses but possess the qualities you desire? (and I agree with others, they are not usually well-suited to dressage) Horses are insanely expensive right now compared to two years ago. You say you’re not getting any younger. Can I ask how old you are?

[sophie]

I was going to comment on the anxiety" part of your post, while working with a young horse. I’ve seen that combination in my barn, a woman in her early 50ies bought a young Friesian/x and had all sorts of problems with her, MOSTLY due to the owner’s own anxiety. The mare behaved fine (if green) with other people.
My own experience with Friesians is that they were originally bred as carriage horses. They would not be my first choice for dressage or trail riding.
I remember a full paper Friesian at my barn, a young gelding who was being trained by a pro dressage rider. Beautiful horse. The rider had to wear spurs and 2 whips (with plastic bags at the end, for more effect) just to get the horse consistently FORWARD and listening to her.
Yes, they are flashy, and all black…and I know you are set on getting one…but soooo many other breeds (or mutts!) would check all your boxes.

[sajast1]

30s+ and been riding since I was 12. Several years saddleseat, did some western, drove a hackney for a bit, did hunters and some jumping, and now with dressage. Of it all my preferences are trail and dressage. An exclusive trail horse makes no sense where I live now so dressage.

I wouldn’t say I have unrealistic expectations elsewhere in life at all. I am a determined sort though and not prone to giving up - both a flaw and a blessing.

Also, I can’t be the only one on here who’s worked with weanlings/yearlings and who’s seen the ones who are just utter spazoids. Born that way, probably never going to change, don’t really want to work with people spazoids. I don’t think there’s an actual technical name for it. Like there’s a difference between typical punk baby behavior and the ones who injure you every single time you’re near them. One yearling I’ve known since birth and since birth she has never wanted anything to do with people. She’s skittish over everything and approach her stall and she’ll still shoot to the back. She’s not aggressive but not very handleable and that’s not changing any time soon. It’s like she was born feral and missed her calling as a mustang. So maybe I should be saying I want a handleable yearling. One of the trainers at the barn jokingly refers to me as “drill sergeant” because I don’t put up with punk behavior - firm but fair. So the punk behavior I’m ok about. Being terrified of your shadow and every human you meet and the degree of reactivity that comes with that? Not so much.

Also re seeing them in their home - I’d rather do that so that I can meet them when they’re more calm and relaxed and get a feel for them. Could they be having a good day? Sure. But so could the 10yo QH I just rode. Obvs I can assess more than temperament in the QH a la quality of gaits under saddle but it still helps to meet them. I will always remember helping a friend look at a horse years ago - arabx. First day he was a gentleman, best of the lot. Second day he was bucking and crow hopping all over the place and clearly needed some training rides. I think that’s the risk every single person takes when they buy a horse.

[lenapesadie]

My cross is out of a racing QH dam. He’s a lot of things but behind the leg ain’t one. I think that’s more training than breeding though.

[Posting_Trot]

My comments are nothing new, but I’ll add them anyway LOL.

The big red flag here to me is that you have such specific criteria that I can only think that you’d be very very lucky to buy a baby/yearling who actually grows up to fit those criteria.

As you undoubtedly know, it can be really tough to predict how a 1 or even 2 year old horse will look and act by the time they’re 6, even factoring out the training part. I get that choosing a specific breed tends to lessen the risk, at least in terms of physical size and appearance, but once you start looking at crosses, you probably lose some of that predictability.

So it seems to me that you have two options. One is to buy an older horse that actually meets your criteria now and enjoy him or her as a riding horse that you bring up the levels in dressage. And maybe you develop a partnership with the horse and keep them forever or maybe you sell the horse after a few years. (Assuming all goes well!).

Or, you could buy a baby, if you really like working with babies, that you kinda sorta think might grow into your criteria and then just commit to selling if they don’t. This is more of a risk since, even if you sink significant amounts of cash into training, the horse might not ultimately be worth that much on the market (unless the overheated market remains with us).

I’d definitely agree with others that you’d probably uncover more possible candidates if you dropped some of your criteria.

Good luck in your search!

[soloudinhere]

I’ve never had a horse in 25 years of riding that I couldn’t get forward off the leg relatively quickly. It is a training issue and it’s created by the rider(s).

[lenapesadie]

I agree. I was trying to be subtle.

[Jealoushe]

I know someone who just adopted a really cute Friesian/standardbred cross. It would suit exactly what you want.

I would check auctions especially for ones coming from the amish.

[OfCourseItsAnAlter]

@sajast1

Kind of how most everyone here is against friesians

I don’t think everyone here is against Fresians. It’s just that they aren’t infatuated by the breed and are more capable of objectively comparing your stated goals, requirements, and desires with the breed characteristics of the Fresian.

If you love Fresians, you should buy one. We have one in the barn I board. He’s big, fluffy, and beautiful. I get the attraction. Except this particular one is an ass.

But, you should also objectively evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of the Fresian breed and adjust your goals and expectations to be compatible with what the breed has to offer.

To answer your original question, no, you are not necessarily being unreasonable in your search, but your criteria are narrow. That means it’s going to take a lot more searching to find your needle in the haystack, especially since your breed of choice is fairly uncommon. You need to accept that it may take a very long time to find something. You’ve only been looking for a month. That’s nothing. It may take a year or more.

[McGurk]

Re: Freisians.

I have a friend that has multiple ones. They ride and drive, and overall, are absolutely lovely horses. I was sceptical the first time I saw him ride one out, but by the end of day, I had to admit it was wonderfully well behaved and trained.

What’s the catch? Well, they move like carriage horses, not dressage horses and are more of the baroque type.

And my friend was able to pay whatever was needed to get the horses he wanted. Budget wasn’t a concern.

So to belabor the point, it’s not that anyone’s against Freisians. It’s the combo of Freisian, dressage and budget that makes it such an unlikely find.

It’s like if I wanted to find a 4 yo jumper prospect by Baloubet du Rouet, ammy friendly, and under 20K. And I’d strongly prefer it be gray.