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[blue_heron]

@OfCourseItsAnAlter

I don’t think everyone here is against Fresians. It’s just that they aren’t infatuated by the breed and are more capable of objectively comparing your stated goals, requirements, and desires with the breed characteristics of the Fresian.

I’ll say it, I don’t like Freisians. I’ve worked “extensively” with them as the woman I was a working student for bred them back when they were faddish, the hot new thing in the dressage world. And then everyone quickly got wise to that and she dumped the breed. She was an incredible breeder and super knowledgable, very classical-- if there was a nice Freisian to be had she would have had it, but I held only disdain for all of them. She sold one to a student and years later they have plateau’d at First level because his body is not inclined to truly come to the bit. I still see them at the big dressage shows around here. They score poorly and most of them are completely inverted, chin to chest. Somehow they make it to the upper levels because they can be muscled into doing tricks. I don’t know what point OP is trying to make regarding old Baroque vs modern Freisians. The new ones appear to be long legged carriage horses (as they were originally bred to be). The Baroque ones still maintain some bone and tend to be shorter in the back.

OP, I think this thread has given you a lot of time to think about your desires regarding a horse. It woul benefit you to sit down and condense this into some bullet points which you can then post as an ISO on Facebook or hand off to your trainer. It honestly sounds like you just want a horse to play with. A Freisian may suit you well, but be an expensive plaything. I believe the horse for you is out there but a month is not a long time to be looking.

[Paint_Party]

So much good advice already, but have to specifically agree and comment on this:

@Posting_Trot

The big red flag here to me is that you have such specific criteria that I can only think that you’d be very very lucky to buy a baby/yearling who actually grows up to fit those criteria.

As you undoubtedly know, it can be really tough to predict how a 1 or even 2 year old horse will look and act by the time they’re 6, even factoring out the training part.

I have worked with baby and young horses for 40+ years. I am forever amused and fascinated by the fact that the way a weanling, yearling or even 2-year-old comports itself in basic handling and groundwork does not necessarily translate into how it will behave or mentally develop under saddle. A true work ethic, “trainability” and inherent athletic ability are often elusive traits. It’s really not until you put the young horse to regular work that you discover its true character.

[StormyDay]

Hmm, no, I don’t know any yearlings that act like that at all.
Yearlings are moldable like clay. They react and respond to things based on how they are treated.
Horses are handleable based on how they are treated.

I’m sorry if we are being tough on you. It’s just that your expectations and the way you have come across make you seem like you are either wildly under experienced for taking on a young horse or are actually very young yourself.

[atr]

I’m reading into your posts that “dressage,” per se, isn’t a passion of yours. The horse you are looking for is not going to be a “serious dressage horse,” more of an allrounder type that you can trail ride, do some lower-level dressage and generally have some fun with. (Sounds good to me and should be what my next and last “old lady” horse will be after I’ve got my “serious dressage” aspirations out of my system.)

A Friesian cross isn’t an unreasonable choice for this. Not my cup of tea personally, but I’ve known some nice ones. Expensive at the moment though, as super-fashionable.

A friend of mine bought one last summer, before prices went completely crazy. He’s a 3 year old, just started under saddle, cute as a button.

She works for a guy who takes a trailer out to Ohio, fills it with these horses straight from the (closely guarded secret) source, brings them back out here and polishes them up and puts some miles on them, makes great videos of them doing all kinds of improbable things and sells them at auction for $50K+ to wealthy aspiring ranch owners who need something safe and want something hairy.

Because she works for him, she got him for “at the source” pricing, which was still around $12K. And he’s around 13.2, which works for her because she’s tiny.

It took her probably 9 months to find this horse, and she has insider connections.

[StormyDay]

@sajast1

To a large extent I agree with that. But there is clearly a temperament factor based on my experience. I don’t get when some people try to say all yearlings/foals are the same, good or bad. No, they were born with a temperament same as any mammal and the way I’d approach one may not work well for another. One may require more pressure and the other a much more sensitive approach. And then some are really ambivalent about the whole people thing to begin with. But those may be more rare. I think just my experiences and yours aren’t in enough alignment for us to completely understand one another haha. If you’ve only worked with the typical baby punk behavior then fantastic. I’ve seen the ones who react to everything and make you wonder how they’re even alive cause they’re def not using their brain and they take a lot more repetition to get used to something. First time being gently brushed should not warrant trying to bolt, rearing, and white eyes. Move away? Sure, it feels weird. But shouldn’t be terror inducing. And this horse has been handled since birth. That’s what I’m not really getting is when you say I sound inexperienced around yearlings - is it because Im describing yearling behaviors you haven’t had to deal with? Cause occasionally we get some who are too much for even the pro trainer at the barn, sometimes but more rarely we get a 3-5 year old who is too dangerous to ride as they learn and we have to long line them (the only time we long line is when they’re too dangerous to ride). But I’ve met those too. This is a training barn. We get them all.

No one is saying they are all the same; but some of the things you have said raise red flags to me

Also, I can’t be the only one on here who’s worked with weanlings/yearlings and who’s seen the ones who are just utter spazoids. Born that way, probably never going to change, don’t really want to work with people spazoids. I don’t think there’s an actual technical name for it. Like there’s a difference between typical punk baby behavior and the ones who injure you every single time you’re near them. One yearling I’ve known since birth and since birth she has never wanted anything to do with people. She’s skittish over everything and approach her stall and she’ll still shoot to the back. She’s not aggressive but not very handleable and that’s not changing any time soon. It’s like she was born feral and missed her calling as a mustang. So maybe I should be saying I want a handleable yearling. One of the trainers at the barn jokingly refers to me as “drill sergeant” because I don’t put up with punk behavior - firm but fair. So the punk behavior I’m ok about. Being terrified of your shadow and every human you meet and the degree of reactivity that comes with that? Not so much

This whole paragraph just really raises some red flags to me.

• As pointed out, babies usually have pretty big personality changes when they grow up and get going under saddle
• if you are being injured repeatedly by yearlings you are doing something wrong
• a horse being not handleable is not a reflection of the horses personality but of the training it’s been exposed to
• no horse, no matter the age, should be terrified of every human they meet; that’s a direct reflection of the training practices that horse has been exposed to.
• you said earlier you didn’t want bitey/nippy/etc horses but now are saying you just don’t want a spooky one.

Yes, I’ve worked with both the baby who I could probably throw a kid up on and give pony rides to and the baby who thought the saddle pad/brush/etc was a demon. Both behaviors are normal in young horses. Both require adequate training, time, and patience to overcome training hurtles.

In my experience, the babies who think that saddle pads and hoses and spray bottles will kill them are not showing their true personality yet. The first few years of a horses’ life are so full of change that many will be fearful at all the new stimuli. I have worked with babies who took 20 sessions to decide that the spray bottle wasn’t evil who then went on to be a bombproof 5 year old toting people around hunter courses. I have worked with babies who I could have shot guns around while wearing a big blue tarp and doing the hula who were so reactive under saddle later in life that they were pro rides only. It’s not a good measure.

[findeight]

Dont know much about Friesians and never enjoyed working with real young uns that much, prefer the crafty spoiled older types as projects. My hesitation comes from decades of seeing any breed under 2 years old that came of as great minded and easy totally go off the rails when asked to really start working under saddle.

Thats a real crap shoot and I would not like to see anybody put all their dreams and spending years and $$$$$$ assuming that youngster will keep the same temperament when asked to actually stat working for a living.

Think its unrealistic to suggest a promise from seller about future height and…really… if your trainer wants to keep you away from certain breeders because of their training and handling methods? Dontcha think you might want to listen to them and let them find your horse? They do know more people better and probably for longer then you.

Think you got some pixie dust in your eyes affecting your long term vision here.

[ThreeWishes]

Why are all your posts being deleted ?

[Jealoushe]

@sajast1

So I’ve mostly been looking at classified type ads because I don’t feel like I need the fancy pedigree and a friesian cross is fine for me. As long as they’re built for it and have a good temperament I’m set. My trainer somewhat disagrees with this approach and wants to find the better pedigrees with proven results but not many of last year’s crop is still out there in my price range. My trainer is also more mistrustful of others and how they handle their yearlings than I am so that limits breeders. I’m willing to at least meet them as that’s how I gauge whether they’re too spazzy or Extra for me. So I know that’s been a hang up as well. They are being way more picky than I am. I’m like, this guy is cute, she has good shoulders, love his trot, etc. But that’s probably not a bad thing. I don’t think?

@sajast1

Why is everyone so hung up on the riding? Working with yearlings is FUN. Groundwork is FUN. I like the process of learning and teaching. Sometimes when it’s too hot to really ride in the summer I’ll take the lesson horse I’m on and work on turning on the haunches/forehand (really just getting them to cross their legs for even 1 step). These horses don’t do that kind of thing under saddle so it’s a learning process and it’s fun. And holy cow do some of them struggle with stiff stiff shoulders which is a whole other issue.

@sajast1

Sorry, I’m confused. Why would they be bad at trails? Just like easy simple trails, not mountain climbing. I know they have terrible stamina, which I weirdly like lol.

Also, do you mind me asking what types of sales horses you deal with at dressage shows? I know TBs are popular but they are not my spirit animal lol.

QFP

[Jealoushe]

@sajast1

Sorry I wasn’t clear - I don’t expect a baby to have flawless manners - I’ve been kicked enough while working on feet to know better than that! But some babies are Extra while other have a more mellow temperament. Also, not less than 14.3 hands once full grown . That’s what I meant. Also re feathers: I’ve seen several with minimal feathering, also, open to crosses.

@sajast1

Haha, I mean, I’ve been bulldozed, stepped on, whacked in the head with their skull, struck at, kicked, had them leap and crow hop while leading, been skiing in the indoor…before every session I tell every yearling “Make good decisions today” and they don’t always listen. But I definitely definitely have my favorites based on their temperament. All things being said, I think my unwillingness to work with an Extra yearling long term is my biggest set back.

@sajast1

That’s fair, and yeah I can definitely look pst something like feathers. The more I’m writing the more I’m heavily weighing temperament. My trainer has been asking around but so far nothing. I was very upfront with her that I didn’t want a “Susie” (drop dead gorgeous mare at the barn who was unbacked until they were 6 because they were/are so mentally immature). She’s like 14 now and you’d still think she was 3. No Susies

@sajast1

Well, it certainly sounds like I’ve given them a tall order and I’m either going to have to be patient and keep saving towards the purchase in the meantime or compromise on the breed (sad face). Won’t be making any decisions right away though so hopefully something pops up on their radar that they think would be a good fit.

@sajast1

I’ve worked with friesians and while I didn’t train them, they were good dressage horses if a bit stubborn sometimes. But one of the breeders I’m stalking online does friesian sport horses and I think that’s probably what I’ll end up with or something like it. My goal is to get through 3rd level if the horse is able and willing. I’ve schooled up through 3rd and really miss those kinds of movements so between myself and my trainer (trains dressage and used to ride friesians) am wanting to get my future horse up the levels. This is obviously a risk with a yearling or even a 4 yo but schoolmasters are way too expensive. Older horses are also out as I need youth and suppleness to work with and so many horses are overused/stiff by 14 in my experience. Fortunately I also enjoy trail riding. Expensive trail horse but hey. Also, trainer really makes same amount of money either way - buy a baby = less upfront = less commission = more training or buy a 4-5 yo+ and more $ upfront = more commission = less overall training. So I’m not too hung up on that.

@sajast1

That’s fair. It seems like the consensus is both going for friesian/x and youth are what people are pointing out the most as unreasonable. In my initial post I was probably being too specific ie feathers. I’m really not worried about the youth aspect though and I 100% know the risks - they could wind up downhill, hate dressage, etc. like I said in another post, even a 4-5yo is a risk albeit less of one. And I am way past “more whoa than go” (but that doesn’t mean I enjoy riding those crazy hot horses ). I’ve just always loved the friesian gait/temperament so when it came time to buy, that’s the first breed at the very very top of my list. You know how some people are just in love with a breed? Whether it’s QHs or OTTBs, friesian is mine. Never met one I didn’t like.

QFP

[StormyDay]

Deleting your posts won’t make them go away just FYI.
It’s also kind of bad COTH manners unless there’s a specific reason for deleting a post (wrong info, wrong thread, someone is getting doxxed, etc)

[trubandloki]

Oh my, I was reading away, learning stuff and all kinds of things vanished while I was reading.

[BrownDerby]

Rats! My bingo card was almost full.

[lenapesadie]

Oh geez. Folks trying to be helpful and then poof.

[Scribbler]

I expect the child stopped having fun with their inventions. The story really wasn’t holding water.

[luvmyhackney]

Thread just wasn’t going the way OP thought.

[findeight]

This thread is a sign things really are returning to normal

[scislandsprite]

What does QFP mean?

[Scribbler]

Quoting For Posterity. When you figure an OP is about to delete or alter posts you quote because they can’t erase posts quoted inside someone else’s post.

[Spudsmyguy]

Well it didn’t sound she got bent out of shape so that’s something.

[StormyDay]

Exactly. It screamed ‘I read a book about a kid who trained their spechul Friesian foal to go to the Olympics’