topline balancer, horse lacking "something"

[mdp9]

I have a horse in my barn (boarder) who is in good weight but is lacking the topline he ought to have. He is a nice imported Irish sporthorse, 15 years old. The family bought him when he was in training with a 4* rider to go foxhunting with the owner, and the current owner is a teenager going beginner novice. Obviously he is not going to be as fit and muscled as when we got him, but I keep looking at him like he needs to bulk up.

I don’t have good pasture quality. He is on free choice orchard mix hay in his stall during the day and out at night (again, poor grass so I supplement with a round bale). He gets 2 lbs purina safechoice senior twice per day. The other horses in the program all look good, but this one is lacking.

Thoughts on favorite supplements, if any? Or maybe add some alfalfa into his diet.

[alibi_18]

The « bulk » goes with how much training the horse gets and a nice top line shows the quality of that training.

You can feed the horse all you want, won’t help much if the training isn’t there. He’ll just get fat… How would you rate this horse on the Henneke scale?

Going from a 4* rider to beginner one is a drastic change in a training program.

[Simkie]

Safechoice Senior should be fed at a higher rate than four pounds a day (it’s actually 0.7-1# per 100 pounds of horse, according to the package directions.) If the horse just needs a little feed, he’d be better off on a ration balancer–and that would also provide the protein and amino acids he needs to gain topline.

[greysfordays]

I switched my horse to Nutrena Empower Topline Balance ration balancer after consulting with an Equine Nutritionist. It’s made a world of difference in his topline and we haven’t changed the type of work at all, so I definitely think you need a combination of right work and diet to build muscle.

[firefoot]

Without pasture, he is missing some protein. If he holds his weight well on the current feed program, I’d agree with Simkie to add a ration balancer. Getting enough amino acids will help his maintain a topline. If you have some alfalfa hay, that would also be nice. My senior TB has wintered great on alfalfa, TC Senior, and the TC ration balancer along with free choice hay. He had the best topline of the group he’s out with with minimal riding.

[joiedevie99]

If you are feeding below the recommended daily minimum on the bag, he isn’t getting all the vitamins and minerals he needs. I’d start him on an amino acid supplement like TriAmino, and start switching him over to a grain or ration balancer that can be fed at a lower rate.

[outerbanks77]

Ditto the Tri-Amino. It is cheap and effective. I keep both my mares on it, and the one that is just coming off 6 months of stall rest has lost very little topline. FWIW, she also usually gets 1/3 alfalfa, but we cut it out almost completely to help with weight control and excess energy.

[Wanderosa]

@alibi_18

The « bulk » goes with how much training the horse gets and a nice top line shows the quality of that training.

You can feed the horse all you want, won’t help much if the training isn’t there. He’ll just get fat… How would you rate this horse on the Henneke scale?

Going from a 4* rider to beginner one is a drastic change in a training program.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[firefoot]

Just wanted to add that while his exercise program has likely affected his conditioning, getting the right protein and amino acids will definitely impact his ability to grow a topline. Here is a good article: https://thehorse.com/17043/feeding-the-horses-topline/ And of course, every feed manufacturer also has articles about feeding the topline.

[mdp9]

@alibi_18

The « bulk » goes with how much training the horse gets and a nice top line shows the quality of that training.

You can feed the horse all you want, won’t help much if the training isn’t there. He’ll just get fat… How would you rate this horse on the Henneke scale?

Going from a 4* rider to beginner one is a drastic change in a training program.

Let me rephrase that- the 4* rider was probably riding him around 3’ or 3"6" some, flatting some, fox hunting some. He was not competing.

But yes, agreed, a lot of that is due to the different work load. I still feel he should be more filled out than he is.

[Simkie]

I can make huge (HUGE) differences in the muscling of my 100% retired mare with how she’s fed. Exercise plays a part once you’ve met their nutritional needs, but if you’re not meeting their nutritional needs, it doesn’t matter how much you exercise them.

This horse, based on what we know about his diet, isn’t getting enough quality protein. That isn’t allowing him to put on the base level of muscling or allowing him to build with work.

A ration balancer should give him what he needs. Tri amino (or equivalent) could also be with a shot, but given that he’s not anywhere near the minimum of the grain he’s being fed, moving him to a ration balancer is a better choice, to ensure his vitamin and mineral needs are being met, as well as his protein and limiting amino acid needs.

[Coreene]

Elevate Vitamin E powder. Best price on Amazon.

[Simkie]

@Coreene

Elevate Vitamin E powder. Best price on Amazon.

If you’re feeding this, Coreene, the stuff from Santa Cruz is the same thing and a whooooole lot less expensive Happy to see you back!

https://www.scahealth.com/scah/product/ultracruz-equine-vitamin-e-horse-supplement

[Angela_Freda]

@firefoot

Just wanted to add that while his exercise program has likely affected his conditioning, getting the right protein and amino acids will definitely impact his ability to grow a topline. Here is a good article: https://thehorse.com/17043/feeding-the-horses-topline/ And of course, every feed manufacturer also has articles about feeding the topline.

Ding! Muscle won’t appear without the building blocks, food, no matter how perfect the exercise/conditioning program

eta, and vice versa.

[Palm_Beach]

@mdp9

Let me rephrase that- the 4* rider was probably riding him around 3’ or 3"6" some, flatting some, fox hunting some. He was not competing.

But yes, agreed, a lot of that is due to the different work load. I still feel he should be more filled out than he is.

Read the feeding instructions on the bag of feed you are feeding. You can probably just increase what you are feeding and see a difference, and it will be less expensive than some supplement or a ration balancer. He doesn’t look right on your feeding program because you are not using the product as directed.

[JB]

@firefoot

Without pasture, he is missing some protein.

We don’t know that Good quality Orchardgrass hay could easily have enough protein if the horse is eating enough of it.

If he holds his weight well on the current feed program, I’d agree with Simkie to add a ration balancer.

Yes, he’s definitely not eating enough of the Sr even if he’s a small horse at 1000lb. I would absolutely add 1lb of a ration balancer, since this is about more than just protein and amino acids too.

And, with poor pasture for only the night, I would assume too little vitamin E, and supplement enough on top of whatever the SC Sr + balancer is providing, to meet a 2IU/lb amount.

The SC Sr (Nutrena, not Purina ) is 150IU/lb, so the 4lb is given 600 IU. If you add 1lb of the Nutrena Empower Balance, that’s another 600IU. At 1200IU that’s the bare minimum for a 1200lb horse. It’s easy and cheap to toss a 1000IU gelcap of a human E (natural form, not synthetic), such as Spring Valley from Walmart or similar. That is in the $.11-.13 per 1000IU range that the UltraCruz Natural E is. Or you can just do that UltraCruz Natural E, powder or pellet.

[Coreene]

@Simkie

If you’re feeding this, Coreene, the stuff from Santa Cruz is the same thing and a whooooole lot less expensive Happy to see you back!

https://www.scahealth.com/scah/produ…rse-supplement

Thank you!

Elevate has worked markedly better on the three we tried it on. Vet recommended it after I mentioned that the Santa Cruz was working well, and the difference was night and day. So, yes, totally based on a tiny sampling of only three horses, but such a difference that I stick with Elevate.

[kande04]

@JB

And, with poor pasture for only the night, I would assume too little vitamin E, and supplement enough on top of whatever the SC Sr + balancer is providing, to meet a 2IU/lb amount.

Plus free access to a round bale, which may be the same hay that he gets during the day?

[Simkie]

@kande04

Plus free access to a round bale, which may be the same hay that he gets during the day?

Vitamin E quickly degrades in cut hay, so horses that aren’t on good pasture for a solid chunk of the day pretty much all need supplementation. The round bale doesn’t really play into the vitamin e piece of things

[JB]

Exactly - assume no Vit E in hay. There may be some, but it’s pretty volatile when exposed to light. So, a lot is lost while the grass is curing after being cut, and it continues to be lost on a monthly basis.

https://thehorse.com/19685/nutrition-loss-in-stored-hay/
“Timothy hay loses as much as 60% of its vitamin E when cured in swaths for four days. Other research has shown that alfalfa stored at 30[SUP]o[/SUP] Celsius (86[SUP] o[/SUP] Fahrenheit) for three months incurred vitamin E losses of 54-73%.”

http://gettyequinenutrition.biz/Library/Vitamin%20ERequirementvsRecommendation.htm
"Fresh grass contains approximately 110 IUs of vitamin E per kg of dry matter. " (finally, a reference for how much is in grass!)