Total Immersion but for dressage

[centaursam]

I’m an avid swimmer and recently read a book called Total Immersion that help me overcome years of struggling with my swim strokes, particularly through it’s three main principles of swimming:

-Swim “downhill” to counteract you hips wanting to sink
-Keep your leading arm streched out as long as possible to make yourself as slim through the water column
-Roll you entire body with each pull to help you maintain a streamline through the water and aid in taking a breath, rotating the shoulder, etc.

While my swimming isn’t perfect and I’m sill working on technique, these three principles helped me more than any other advice, instruction, etc. that I’ve received over the course of several years of swimming.

I liken swimming to riding since great swimmers swim in such a way to least disturb the water, the strokes and kicks are subtle and efficient, and there is always an emphasis on being streamlined as much as possible. Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like that applies to riding just as much.

This got me thinking, is there a Total Immersion for riding? Have any of you found something that lead to a massive breakthrough after years of struggle?

I’m not looking for an easy way out by any means but I have learned that there are always certain principles that lead to outsized results that we often don’t find until many years of struggling with other techniques/principles that weren’t’ so effective. These are perhaps different for everyone, but it helps to get some other opinions.

Am I making any sense or does this sound like gibberish?

[Training_Cupid]

Have you read or watched anything from Mary Wanless? Her book Rider Biomechanics might be a good start. I haven’t been able to attend any of her clinics but have taken lessons with trainers who teach her methods and found it very helpful as a former hunter rider trying to learn dressage.

[joiedevie99]

I definitely think being subtle/efficient applies to riding. I think about it as making really big, clear corrections when needed so that I can be quiet in between. Nagging the horse is annoying. And it’s important to think about actually training the horse to maintain more and more on their own - not making yourself work harder and harder to hold the whole picture together.

For me, there isn’t a principle or book that changed things so much as there are horses who changed things for me. The first time I sat on a truly impeccably trained GP horse that was actively competing, I learned that what I thought “in front of the leg” was - and what it actually was - were wildly different.

[Scribbler]

For me, big biomechanical breakthroughs were to drop my thigh back under me, not jam my heel down. Lift my ribcage not push my shoulders back. And glue my elbows to my sides with my thumbs up. But any given rider will have different issues so different break throughs.

[Huntin_Pony]

The body awareness that is implied by the total immersion principles should be your best friend (after your horse of course). If you can “feel” your body position and its changes over time, then apply that skill not only to your own mechanics but also to the horse’s responses. When you can feel the horse reacting to you then you have the beginnings of a dialogue.

[Scribbler]

When I was riding the School Mistress old mare, I discovered that if I halted on center line with my abs engaged and rib cage lifted she stopped square. And if I didn’t her halts were very sloppy, would even be crooked.

[outerbanks77]

Centered Riding, When two Spines Align and Balance in Movement are all great books for this kind of thing.

[exvet]

I find having ridden in dressage since the late 80s (been riding my entire life) that things including epiphanies come full circle. I remember back in the day when I was into eventing. My riding instructor pointed out to me after coaching my pony and I over a rather formidable table top type fence. She got me to realize that while I needed to be bold, balance my horse and drive to the fence seeing my spot I also need to relax and basically will the two of us to ‘fly’ over the fence. I’ve been struggling with my flying changes on my ever energy efficient welsh cob. I’ve known all along that the basic problems were that (1) he was too often behind my leg and (2) he would hold his breath and brace during the flying change all resulting in the skip a change. I took a lesson with someone new to me (at least as an instructor). Now I have had lots of help, advice and put in many, many miles to improve the canter quality. This ‘new’ instructor carried on the same tune and correctly so; but, all she had to say to me to help me ‘help’ my horse was to ride the canter bascule like I was riding to the fence (a suggestion previously given by another) AND relax my back! Seems so simple and I know better in terms of not bracing my back while riding (except for momentary half halts) but that is exactly what I’ve been doing in the FC because I became so focused in driving my horse forward. NO ONE else has noticed this. So now I’m riding to fly and relaxing my back and making sure I’m not blocking in front and wouldn’t you know my welsh cob is starting to really get the idea that I do want the changes to occur with all 4 feet in the air

[Mondo]

I think total immersion would be lots and lots of lunge line lessons. This entirely takes away any need to steer or influence the horse. The person on the ground does that. All the rider has to do is feel. Feel where their legs are. Feel their core. Feel their seat. Close their eyes and feel what the horse is doing under them. Once that feel is learned, it never goes away and will carry you as far as you want to go in dressage. There is a reason that the SRS puts new riders on the lunge without reins or stirrups for six months. After that, learning to teach the movements to a horse becomes easy.

[eightpondfarm]

@outerbanks77

Centered Riding, When two Spines Align and Balance in Movement are all great books for this kind of thing.

This is the sort of thing that first came to my mind when i read the OP. I feel connected to the horse through my spine. It’s like …hooking into them. Body and mind. I could never explain like my coach does about various body parts of horse and me, rider. But like last week, she gave me a pattern and then described to me what it was that i did. I didn’t even remember. i am a trainer but not a teacher. I do not know how coaches begin to observe and describe what they know. But my own coach is ALWAYS there with information and direction. The little things like elbows in or hold the outside reign two notches closer…Those things, moment-by-moment are priceless. Sometimes i wish i was more analytical, but that’s not my nature. So when she described what i did i listened hard and tried to visualize what we’d just done, but alas, i could not for the life of me remember … But the horse and i did it right. She was just describing what i did that was right. Like a translator. But i still couldn’t recall. BUT…chances are i would repeat it because it was organic. LOL.

To me, moving a horse from above is so much like moving a flock of sheep from the ground. Or getting cows through a gate… it’s positioning in relationship to them with a goal in mind. Afix that goal the best i can and our bodies work together to make it happen. usually. The Zen of riding.

And i say this knowing how much you guys hate wooo…lol

[EventerAJ]

I had a clinic with Jacqueline Brooks 10 years ago that changed everything for me. Very simply, “weight in the direction you want to go.” Growing up I was always taught to weight the inside, sit on the inside seatbone to give the horse a “post” to bend around. Then Jacqueline said “No, you’re doing it all wrong.” She explained that the horse will want to balance you, and step under you. In basic terms, on a baby green started-under-saddle horse, you Lean In The Direction You Want to Go. The horse will have to step under you or lose balance (and fall down). The principle carries over, with more finesse, as horse and rider gain experience and knowledge. If you want to leg yield left, flex right and weight your left seat bone. Step in the outside stirrup. The horse will follow. Shoulder in right? Sit left, the right hind will step under you. Change to haunches-in right? Sit right, the left hind will step under you. Counter canter? Always sit to the outside of the lead, and your horse will be able to hold his balance much much better.

It was a lightbulb lesson that has carried with me for 10 years, on many different horses, starting babies up through prelim/intermediate eventing. It works every time!

[DMK]

@exvet

my ever energy efficient

My fjord feels seen.

We are struggling with this, and a light tap with the whip might do the trick but for the fact that actually touching him with a whip is almost always counterproductive to any goal that does not involve charging forward on the front end!

But thinking about loosening the back is probably the better way, however this leads me to my breakthrough… Less of a breakthrough and more that I finally accepted I wasn’t going to solve this problem on my own… The problem is a tight back that hurts a lot (severe arthritis, bulging disc, par for the course for the number of years I’ve been riding) AND the associated compensatory weaknesses, misalignments and just a generally jacked up body from ignoring the problem for too long. So my breakthrough was to finally seek help (medical, pt). I have zero confidence that we will get rid of the back pain, I think that ship has sailed. But I am making a lot of progress on lengthening and strengthening my right side which will hopefully even up the hips and soon I hope I can get the attachment point of the longissimus up under my left shoulder blade to stretch out… Because I have this sneaking suspicion that if my left longissimus can stretch and my right hip can lower then maybe I can actually put my weight and body where it needs to be when it needs to be there. Oh yeah, and maybe my back won’t hate me so much… <---- 6 damn decades of riding, and this little gem of wisdom finally penetrated my thick skull

[KurPlexed]

Interesting. I’d love to know more as I sit here nursing a torn back muscle from being flung off in FC hell. He either skips thru or leaps thru. The other direction is just beautiful.

@centaursam The books I love the most are by Beth Baumert. When Two Spines Align and How Two Minds Meet. So many great nuggets of info in both books.

[exvet]

I probably should put this in the thread regarding the FC Hell especially because we’re still there; but, I’ve ridden twice now since that lesson and I’m getting more leaping into and through the change. At least a leap garners a 5 as oppose to a 4 for the skip a change in a test. I literally have to think of galloping (really ends up being more forward of a collected canter) and drawing my horse up underneath my seat (so canter with my seat) and supple to the new side, give the aid when the timing is correct and NOT brace my back. I really can’t give me horse any excuse to suck back which tightening or bracing my back does. I do believe I’m finally on the correct path after many months of working on strength, stamina and suppling in addition to listening to my aids and only giving me a change when I ask. I knew I wasn’t blocking with the hand but honestly the comment on me bracing my back during the change and not giving my horse the ability to come up through the withers by doing so really rang a bell in my head that was the epiphany of where I was getting in his way. On the way home from the dressage arena (I ride/live about a mile down the road) there is a long stretch that is safe to canter. We did tempis which were basically all leaps but for me this is a huge ‘leap’ in the right direction towards true FLYING changes. Going home gives me the advantage of him already being forward

[centaursam]

I appreciate all the replies, thank you!

Of the books and people you all have mentioned, the only one I am familiar with is Centered Riding. I’ll have to give it a read along with the other resources you’ve all provided here.

@eightpondfarm I spent a week in Colorado herding hundreds of cattle on horseback so I can appreciate your analogy. I’m all for wooo when it comes to horses

[Bogie]

I think the Total Immersion techniques are very helpful for learning how to glide through the water and control your body. When I first started as a Masters Swimmer, I used many of the exercises to help better understand the mechanics of swimming and make it an easier, more effortless movement. I don’t agree with the kick technique taught for freestyle, but I digress . . .

I think that Mary Wanless comes the closest to the Total Immersion approach, at least what I’ve found.

But here’s the good news. Swimming is great cross training for riding. You have body awareness/alignment, increase your core strength and with the Total Immersion approach, you learn how small movements can make a big difference. My riding improved significantly when I started swimming more. It reminds me that I need to get back in the pool.

Here’s a game to play in the pool and on horseback – In the pool, count how many strokes you take to complete a 25 meter/yard length. I think when I started I was at about 22 (Freestyle and similar backstroke). Then see how many strokes you can eliminate through a combination of more glide and more effective pull. Don’t worry about speed, focus only on the number of strokes. When I’m in good shape, I average 14 strokes in a 25 m pool.

Now, with your horse, count the number of trot strides between two fixed points. Ask your horse to extend the length of his stride (not go faster). When you are able to cut a few strides out, then add them back in. You get a real feeling for lengthening and collection.

[KurPlexed]

Thank you! We had the exact same progression but man, those leaps are HUGE when your thighs, back and hands are all open and soft lol. Hard to stay on and not become unseated. At least in my case. Lol

[merrygoround]

Body core, and the ability to isolate different muscles and use them independently is most important. The ability to think is very useful.

[eightpondfarm]

@KurPlexed

Hard to stay on and not become unseated. At least in my case. Lol

can you use a big rubber ball and teach your body compensation movements?

To keep myself agile for climbing on rubble piles I have a half ball that i stand on (one foot at a time sometimes) when i brush my teeth. I started with just standing on one leg, then kept moving on…

[KurPlexed]

Never heard of this. Can you pm me a link? Thank you. I haven’t come off in 20 years so I think the big change unseated me and then the buck/bolt after just did me in lol. Young horses are hard!!!