[QUOTE=Joanne;6597022]
I don’t have my catalog any longer, and I can’t find the auction prices.
Does anyone know how much the brother of Fire and Ice went for? (I think it was a full brother).
Thanks.[/QUOTE]
Riding horse auction - http://oldenburger-pferde.net/upload/Aktuelles/VHA_12.pdf
Foal auction - http://oldenburger-pferde.net/upload/Aktuelles/VHA_12_Fohlen.pdf
[QUOTE=Cartier;6596545]
seems to me we have another photo around here somewhere. Sorry about the quality of the photo, it was a very small png file that I had to convert to a jpeg. The foal is lovely.
About the price being a bit “enhanced” … it may well be to some extent. Time will tell. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time this has happened, and the world still turns. If you speak with most anyone, about most any horse auctions, they have stories to tell of how the price was manipulated one way or another. It happens, probably more than we all know. We view sales like this with a grain of salt. IF the foal fulfills his potential, great! In some respects high profile sales are good for the market in a general sense, i.e., it’s good for all breeders that any foal could be valued so highly.
As for whether “breeders have forgotten about Totilas already”… implicitly because he and his current rider are not yet in sync with each other (or, more straightforwardly, because he is no longer being ridden by Edward Gal)… I find that hard to believe that breeders are that fickle. If Totilas was the right stallion for your mare three - four years ago, he is still the right stallion for your mare. Fact is, Totilas has done what no other stallion in competition has ever done… so the performance record is solid, and he is not a fluke of an otherwise crappy pedigree. Rather, he is an excellent reflection of his sire (who has produced many many good horses) and the generations before him. One may not like how Totilas is being managed under saddle, but if a serious breeder ever thought that Totilas suited their mare, nothing has changed about the genetic material passed on. I don’t think there are enough foals on the ground yet, nor are enough of his offspring of riding age, to say what kind of sire he’ll be, one way or the other.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
As far as his present status, well he is still a great horse from really solid bloodlines but maybe breeders are thinking he is a tougher ride than he looked under Gal. And I really do think many breeders are fickle, including the Europeans. Otherwise we would not see the trend of the Young Phenom of the day.
[QUOTE=jdeboer01;6595693]
Have breeders really forgotten about Totilas already? What’s the consensus been on what he produces?
Is there any video of Total Recall? I couldn’t find any on the auction website.
I do wonder if that sales price was something “agreed upon” with a wink before the auction.[/QUOTE]
I have spoken with a number of breeders in Germany and the general consensus about Totilas as a “producer” is that he does not really replicate or stamp himself. Most of the foals come out looking like their mothers, so you need a very good mare to breed to him. One thing he does pass on so far is his tremendous try and trainability, as judged by how easy his youngsters are to handle on the ground. Several breeders I have talked to are looking forward to staring their Toto offspring under saddle next spring, but all concurred that the foals look like their dams, so they say “to breed to Totilas is tough”. The most interesting comment is that having the name “totilas” on the pedigree is great for marketing the foals.
[QUOTE=rodawn;6597317]
…the general consensus about Totilas as a “producer” is that he does not really replicate or stamp himself. [/QUOTE]
Anyone that expected him to replicate himself must be smoking crack. “Freaks” hardly ever replicate themselves… :lol:
[QUOTE=DownYonder;6597323]
Anyone that expected him to replicate himself must be smoking crack. “Freaks” hardly ever replicate themselves… :lol:[/QUOTE]
Totalis may not reproduce himself but Gal may produce another one. He really stamps his horses. 
[QUOTE=stoicfish;6597336]
Totalis may not reproduce himself but Gal may produce another one. He really stamps his horses. :D[/QUOTE]
Maybe PS should have purchased and stood EG better odds at return in investment :lol::lol:
[QUOTE=Lynnwood;6597352]
Maybe PS should have purchased and stood EG better odds at return in investment :lol::lol:[/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol:
In that case I would only do live cover…
OMG LMAOOOOOO
[QUOTE=stoicfish;6597375]
:lol: :lol:
In that case I would only do live cover…[/QUOTE]
I am pretty sure you would have to be of the same gender as EG. :winkgrin:
I wonder about people. If you ask if a stallion is reproducing himself, compare the foal movement to Totilas before Edward got him, so before he turned 6 or whatever. He is an amazing horse and if any of the Toto foals have the ability to be trained like he was, I think people would be very happy! I would say seeing foals, Toto is reproducing in the good ones his natural gaits plus sometimes a bit more, like Total Recall. But he is producing his natural gaits, not the ones that Edward developed. Look at a young stallion like For Romance or others if you want to try to reproduce huge natural gaits. Otherwise, hope that the Toto foals have the trainability and elasticity that made him so special and to be able to become what he is. And it takes years for any rider to take over a GP horse, longer with someone not as experienced.
This Total Recall is a nice foal, and it makes sense that Paul S buys him. He has done the same over and over for his other stallions. What is the big deal. Let him spend the money how he wants.
I think more the question for German breeders is other than how they get Paul S to buy their foals, is how the other stallion stations and owners compete to stay in business and be successful. Paul S had the champion stallion and mare in Oldenburg, full siblings born by ET and that is the first time that happened. When you breed 1,000 mares or whatever, he has the law of averages and volume pulling his way that no one else can match.
[QUOTE=stoicfish;6597375]
:lol: :lol:
In that case I would only do live cover…[/QUOTE]
Just lost my coke sip on the computer :lol::lol:
since the star of Totilas is about to sink, this is a marketing move and nothing more.
[QUOTE=aurum;6600121]
since the star of Totilas is about to sink, this is a marketing move and nothing more.[/QUOTE]
So you are saying the breeders are abandoning him in droves? If so, is it because he doesn’t knock it out of the park with every single foal? Or because he isn’t out competing successfully? Or because of the high stud fee? Or because he is not as accessible to the breeders as they wish? Or a combination of all the above?
I’d still use him. If he was the right fit for a mare based on what a prior poster said. Not because he was a freak …because he has good basics, great bloodlines , good conformation but most of all because he was so malleable.
Who knows why he has not shined under the PS machine, but I give the horse the benefit of the doubt. I’m sure his recent lack of “freak” accomplishments are people created not horse.
This was a very nice foal and one of the best Totalis’ I’ve seen so far.However I think that Weihe Gluck sold in the mixed Auction was even better. Of course being a filly she did not go for as much money.
Do you think Total Recall’s being a july baby will have an impact on his getting licensed at the normal time?
[QUOTE=aurum;6600121]
since the star of Totilas is about to sink, this is a marketing move and nothing more.[/QUOTE]
I don’t know about “the star” sinking… but it’s all “a marketing move and nothing more.” All of it.
I never understand why it’s “sleazy hype” when the other guy does exactly what everyone else is doing (or trying to do). So what if this is hype? It’s all hype, that’s what generates interest and drives sales. But one has only to look back at any of the hot stallions of the moment over the past decade or so to see what is true.
“The Great Stallion” of six years from now is probably sitting unnoticed in a field somewhere, bred by some low-profile, old-fart breeder, who’s been dedicated to quality for generations, who doesn’t give a flying fig about hype. 
Why are so many seemingly dismissive of Totilas as a stallion? (aside from the stud fee)? Or is the stud fee the chief problem?
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;6602802]
Why are so many seemingly dismissive of Totilas as a stallion? (aside from the stud fee)? Or is the stud fee the chief problem?[/QUOTE]
I was wondering why posters here consider his stud fee to be high. Look at the stud fees for other breeds (e.g. TB, Quarterhorses, Arabs, etc.). In fact, look at the stud fees for dogs of Toto’s quality. Overall, I think the stud fees for warmblood stallions are very low, so low that it makes no sen$e to even stand a warmblood stallion in this country. In fact, I can imagine some people saying, “why would anyone buy a foal for $10K, when they can breed their own for a third of that?”
I don’t think his stud fee is outrageously high, but I’ve seen other posters complain about it… just to clarify…
WBFSH Top 10 Dressage Sire Ranking
1 JAZZ - 19848
2 FLORESTAN I - 15129
3 GRIBALDI - 14769
4 FERRO - 12788
5 MICHELLINO - 12538
6 DE NIRO - 11684
7 DONNERHALL - 10930
8 ROHDIAMANT – 9360
9 WELT HIT II – 8325
10 BREITLING W – 5719
These are proven sires, unlike the Toto.
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