Totally diff. type of road-driving/shoeing question, I promise!

You know I am neon green new to driving so please humor me. I tend to overthink things, always looking for the better, perfect way. Please let me bounce this idea off of you.

Just pulled the heeled shoes off Cookie. I told the farrier I thought they were causing fetlock problems, but I think they really hurt her pasterns. Whatever.

She is keg shod on the fronts only w/o any borium nails or studs. We will change course as needed. We drive on the roads and in the fields. My farrier recommended against boots because they would give good traction and make it easier for her to go on the forehand.

She has seemed on her forehand, maybe from digging in (before shoes) to get added traction. If that persists with shoes on the fronts, I’m wondering, if she would use her rear engine better if she had boots or rubber coated shoes on the rears.

She would soon learn that her rear feet were the ones affording the best traction, and learn to rely on them for a lot of that necessary traction.

The fronts wouldn’t hold the pavement so much, and she could ease back on her forehand.

Just a thought by someone who knows naught! It’s the stifled engineer in me! But what do you think? I want your thoughts but please be kind because I am totally new to this and trying to learn by thinking things out.

Yip

She may find it much easier to go on the forehand, because of her body style, not as much work, not capable of using the rear well yet.

A number of breeds find it hard to go “collected” using the rear end as the engine and lift the front end. Body build is against them. Heavy muscled front end, lower withers than rump, low head carriage from low neck set on shoulders can make it almost impossible to gather themselves up to lift front. So even with good training, collecting is HARD WORK for them. Collection should only be done for very short sessions with such horses because it is so unnatural for them. Hard on all their body parts.

Even the best built-for-Dressage style body, should be developed over YEARS to achieve the correct muscling, needed for lifting the front, driving from behind. Building muscle to go engaged, collected, extended, takes correct training work in short sessions, in the correct order of development. Still, horse should only be worked in collection for short times, since collection is still HARD WORK, not something horse does often or for long periods of time by himself.

No horse carries himself in a collected frame when free in the field for very long in play. They relax, carry themselves to be comfortable, head down. Horses can have bad habits (from a PEOPLE viewpoint) about how they move, habits that can be learned or just easier for the horse to do moving around. Some animals are just not as capable of change or modification in body or gaits, as other horses can be. Again, his body is not MADE TO GO THAT WAY!!

Shoeing changes can affect how a horse goes, but I don’t think taking all traction off the front, using it on the hinds, is going to make her change the way she uses herself. She has to get the rear end engaged, driving behind. Then she has to learn how to lift in the front. TRAINING, not traction change, is the method to change body carriage.

You have an excellent point, one I hadn’t even thought of.

I’m so glad I asked. I never considered that concept at all. I’ll be interested to see other replies, but I think your point is valid enough to not even think about that method.

See, that’s why you’re the experts and I’m still beginning to learn!

Yip

Calks, especially on the rear give a driving horse necessary traction. They are especially helpful on cobblestone or brick type streets. As well as dirt and grass.

Going down hills they help the horse as a sort of brake enabling him to hold the load back.

Thomas1 can tell more about British Roadster type shoeing as I’m sure he has plenty of experience with it.

Traction devices of some kind or another are essential on driving horses. Booties can be used as an emergency “spare tire” type measure but are NOT, and never were intended to be, a substitute for high quality shoeing.

Yip, I work on way of going in long lines in the arena. This allows me more scope for circles and lateral work to encourage the hind end under and forward. As Goodhors said, it takes time and a steady, planned approach. But it’s fun to see things learned in the long lines expressed in harness, and it gives me a lot better understanding of the timing and release needed to best employ the acute sensitivity of the horse.

Yip
Dont despair about your first attempt at traction not working and possibly making the horse go poorly

My old Hackney Mel, wore borium on his shoes for the entire eleven years I had him before he died (boriou was a streak across the toe and withe a stud or a streak along the heel)
We drove a fair amount on asphalt road
We had 2 incidents of lameness due to shoeing changes. The first time was when our farrier tried thos tiny borium tipped hammer in studs - only on the heels - had too much grip for Mels way of going
The second incident was when a new farrier tried great honking (looked to me like jumper) heel caulks and Mel just couldnt figure out what to do with his feet - We dropped that farrier after just the one shoeing as he would not listen to me at all.

Mel had really bad feet and we went one summer with easyboots in the front when we couldnt keep a shoe on. He had no problem with those and they did not seem to impair his way of going and he has quite a sideways slip on placing his front feet on the ground

So I would not rule out boots if you do a lot of pavement driving

Our 2 big boyz now are shod in front and barefoot behind but they do not do road driveing (just to dangerous around us) and they are not competition horses. Shoes in front is more cuz they are draftX and the foot shape does not hold without some help and Alex has flat feet in front

I wouldn’t recommend calks. That is… presuming what you mean by calks is the same as what we mean?

A metal cleat dropping down at the heels. Is that what you mean.

If so then great for a great stonking load on an agricultural horse but I’d not recommend for a pleasure harness horse.

I’d be inclined to just use tungsten road stud nails

Yes, thomas, that’s exactly what I mean. They are molded into the shoe, like a little heel.

I think they made her pasterns sore on the road, but are probably fine in the turf where they can sink in and the feet can find their own idea of level and comfort.

You speak of tungsten and the Americans speak only of borium. I have to wonder if we don’t have the tungsten materials here. I’ll search when I get more info.

Thanks, all.

Yip

Borium and Drill-tek are Trade name/Brand names for products that have tungsten carbide chips in a base of softer metal. Borium has smaller chips than Drill-tek, so may be more common on riding horses for a little grab and the Drill-tek is more common on working draft horse shoes for more grab on pavement. Real common on Amish working animals used on the roads.

The Farrier heats the rod of Borium and usually puddles the base metal onto shoe with smears or dots, that allow the tungsten chips to stick out for traction. Drill-tek is much coarser tungsten chips, often made into a caulk shape for the bigger work horses going on the road with loads. Does REALLY grab hold on the asphault! Farrier must carry a torch to work the choice of Borium or Drill-tek onto the shoe.

Farrier can also puddle the Borium onto the horseshoe nails for grip. Some folks think they help, but I have not found the Borium nails to last as well as the spots or smears, on a horse shoe when we used Borium. We use the drive-in road studs now for our traction needs until winter. Then we use drive-in ice studs because they protrude a bit more to grab the frozen/slippery stuff on the winter ground.

Thomas’ road studs are the same as what we use in the US, we just don’t call them nails. Shoe is drilled with drill-press for straight hole, road stud is dropped in hole, tapped to hold itself in the shoe. Stud is made with a Morris taper, which makes it drive harder into the shoe with use. Road stud is also a softer metal holding the tungsten carbide center in place, like Borium and Drill-tek does. Softer metal wears off, which exposes the tungsten carbide on a continuous basis, keeping stud sharp for grab under the horse.

We don’t use caulks on our horses because it is too much grab on their feet. Stops their hoof too hard, each stride, shock goes up the leg to other places. The road studs allow a microscopic slip when hoof is planted, which horse is made to do, to help in dispersing impact thru-out the leg. We have used the road studs since they were introduced, like them a lot better than borium which was all we had before. We feel borium also grabs too hard on pavement and causes other problems on our horses. So that is a long time with road stud use, some animals are shod year around for using with no leg problems. I think that is over 15 years of road stud use. Like the road studs a lot.

A horse’s way of going can affect what works for him. Some horse plant the hoof, others plant and twist when striding along. If he can’t twist, he gets sore. You have to work with the horse and his natural way of going to keep him happy and sound. Changes will fix one part to look at, but the motion just moves elsewhere, wearing on other body parts. Sometimes you have to “settle” for what keeps the horse happy and sound in work, allowing him grip to keep the shiny side up.

What I use is absolutely no different to what Goodhors uses.

You might find these helpful so we know what we’re talking about:

http://www.farrierproducts.com/Farriery/NAArchives/toolsandtipsarticles/toolstips6.html

http://www.horseshoeexpress.com.au/tungsten-pin-road-safety-nails.html

Borium is just a generic name for tungsten carbide crystals. Rather I should say that’s what borium would be meant if it was ever said over here.

There though I think you might say borium even once it’s been embedded in a carrier material like steel.

Truthfully though I’ve never known anyone use the word “borium” over here. Not even in engineering circles. Here if it’s tungsten we say tungsten.

I notice though that Goodhors says “Borium” is a trade or brand name for tungsten farriery products which would indeed explain why it’s mainly on US horse boards or in real life equestrian circles where I’ve ever heard it.

Seems borium might be to horse shoes what Hoover is to the vacuum. I learn something every day :wink: