Towing with a Sequoia?

[spacytracy]

Hi all, I’m asking this for my husband. We currently have a Toyota Tundra that I tow with, but my current econo-car is reaching the end of its life, and instead of having a truck AND a car, we are thinking of getting a Sequoia or a 4Runner. We find that we really only use the truck for towing, and its the kind with the suicide doors, and the backseat is virtually useless.

Here’s what he is asking (excuse me if it sounds a little cut-n-paste, I’m cut-n-pasting from his email)

For reference, I have an older 2h stock trailer, and I tow 1 lg pony, and 1 medium, but long term, I would say the most I’d tow with is a 2- 16 h horses (at MAX - I’m a pony person)

Here’s his email:

See if any of the horse people use a 4Runner for towing. The 2005-2006 models have a V8 available and while it lowers the MPG from 15 to 14 city, it is basically the same engine that’s in the current Tundra. The V6 has a tow capacity of 5,000 lbs, the V8 tow capacity is 7,000 lbs. I’m much more comfortable at the 7,000 lbs that the V8 offers but of course the V6 with better MPG would be better for normal non-towing but I’m not sure saving $400/year is worth making the V6 strain climbing hills with a trailer.

The wheelbase is about 18" shorter than the current Tundra and the overall body length is almost identical to an Outback wagon so parking would be about the same as an Outback while a Sequoia would be larger and more difficult to park. The Sequoia has the 3rd row seat but sacrifices room in the hatch. The hatch of the Sequoia with the 3rd row in place is tighter. The seats fold forward but I’m not sure we’d really use the 3rd row often enough to even justify having them. We haven’t yet.

I found lots of people talking about towing with 4Runners but way more people have boats than horse trailers…the weight and length, etc. is far different between boats and horse trailers.

[Libby2563]

I towed with a 2008 V8 4Runner for several years. First I had a 2-horse Brenderup, which was very light, and it handled that perfectly fine both locally and on interstates. When I purchased a 2-horse Gore (~3,000 lbs empty), it struggled a bit. It was fine for local hauling but driving up and down hills on interstates was stressful. I definitely would not haul a stock trailer with a V6 4Runner.

Last year I upgraded to a 2015 Tundra and it hauls MUCH better. I couldn’t be happier.

That said, if you are mostly doing infrequent local hauling, you will probably be fine. And if it doesn’t work out, 4Runners hold their value quite well.

I will warn you that I looked for almost a year to find my V8, and that was in 2010. People tend to hold onto them. Now the newest V8s are going on 7 years old, so you may have to really look around.

[Anne]

My daily driver and tow vehicle is a 2005 V8 4Runner with a factory tow package and an after market brake control. You will have legions of people on this forum tell you how dangerous this is, and how it’s not what you can tow, it’s what you can stop. I’ve heard all that. Having said that, I haul maybe 4 times a year, usually short distances and often one horse, and I live in a flat area. It’s ideal for me.

[ChocoMare]

I will be the first voice then to say Please Don’t…unless you buy a Brenderup or similar or you can duplicate Anne’s environment.

Yes, the Tundra can tow it… but should your trailer brakes fail, your tow vehicle will have a hard time stopping it safely. The trailer will push the vehicle.

Also in high winds: the tail winds up wagging the dog. Add a semi blowing your doors off, the horse(s) getting agitated & shifting the trailer and you’ll be getting new undies.

Also transmission: it’s very hard on the tranny for hills.

I only speak from experience and what I learned during my research before we bought a trailer. I had an F-250 diesel for my 14 1/2 foot gooseneck, hauling draft-crosses. Empty load, we were fine! Load up those draft-cross mares and I was under-trucked. Hills were a slow, plodding process and the transmission couldn’t handle the load.

Upgraded to a full one-ton 3500 Chevy dually diesel and she barely knows my trailer is there.

No, I’m not saying you have to buy a one-ton truck, but please: do your research and read The Complete Guide to Buying, Maintaining & Servicing a Horse Trailer. You can even call Tom Scheve, the author, at EquiSpirit and talk turkey with him.

[Hunterkid]

Not a good idea. I used to haul my two horse empty with my 4Runner and you could really feel it back there. I can’t imagine having a horse in the trailer !

[Alliteration]

No. Just no.

I don’t care if you’re only hauling one mile once a year on perfectly flat ground. No.

It’s not about whether or not your vehicle can tow/pull the trailer. It’s about controlling that trailer with your horses in it under panic conditions. Like when that distracted soccer mom in her mini-van stops abruptly in front of you because she missed her turn. Or the jerk in his BMW who doesn’t think the law applies to him decides to cut you off. In a panic situation, you and your 4-Runner will become the passengers as the trailer takes over and you wind up on your side in the ditch.

You cannot change the laws of physics. If your tow vehicle does not have the MASS or the wheel base or the brakes to keep the trailer stable and BEHIND you, it is not suitable as a tow vehicle.

It will only take one time in an emergency for your vehicle to fail you. You may not get a second chance.

[MMavin]

Nope. Had a 4Runner, and the problem with towing is not all about the engine. The suspension and vehicle weight are not safe. I towed one mile on flat, rural, dry roads several times and could do it–but shouldn’t have.

Sold it and got a second Tundra when my DH nearly got in and accident with the 4Runner towing a light tiny tool trailer. The trailer slid out on a little ice, and the 4Runner didn’t have the weight to pull the trailer out of the slide.

BTDT, don’t do it!

[Guilherme]

No. It might pull just fine but will it stop just fine if you lose your trailer brakes?

G.

[Anne]

Like I said: didn’t take long for the chorus to arrive!

[Alliteration]

It only takes one wreck to learn a lesson. If you/your horses live through it, Anne.

It doesn’t matter how awesome you think your 4-Runner is and that “Yay Me! I haven’t wrecked!”. Yet. The Laws of Physics are pretty ruthless when you try to break them.

Short wheel base = less stability.
Higher center of gravity and narrower track (width between wheels) = less stability

Less stability means that in a cross wind, in a panic stop or even just going down a long grade, you run a VERY real risk of the tail wagging the dog.

You also have to remember that along with the 4-Runner having a high center of mass, so does your horse trailer. Then there’s that pesky little detail of “static vs dynamic” loads. Manufacturers base their towing capacities on dead weight. Not high centers of gravity moving around and bickering with their travelling companions.

There’s a reason it’s easier to carry a 40 lb car battery vs a 40 lb water bucket.

But hey, people do stupid things all the time and live to tell about it.

“Here, hold my beer…”

[soloudinhere]

I have to say that I tow with a 1500 suburban and I don’t love it, I really can’t imagine what towing with a 4runner would be like.

Mine does okay but up steep hills it says no thanks. It always survives, but it works at it. It would be helped by a few more gears in the transmission.

[BeeHoney]

Are there people that do unsafe things and get away with them? Yes. Is that proof that those things are safe? No.

A shorter wheelbase causes a great loss of stability. Horses are an unstable live load and haul differently than, say, a pile of bricks. Towing is NOT all about how much an engine can pull. It’s much more about stability and control.

If you’ve ever been hauling horses and felt that instability, it’s a pretty scary feeling–downright panic when a soccer mom with a van full of kids zips in front of you as you are braking for a red light and you put your foot a little harder on the brake and you realize the stopping power just isn’t there. Or when you are driving down a curvy road and start feeling like you are losing control. Or when you are just driving down the road and the trailer starts fishtailing and jerking you side to side.

I’ve never had a scary experience from not having enough power in a tow vehicle, but I’ve had some terrifying ones related to control issues. Wheelbase is important.

All that having been said, I’ve never towed with a trailer like a Brenderup. I think that the risks might be much more reasonable if you only tow one horse for very short distances at low speeds in modest traffic. Still, you have to account for the fact that nowadays other drivers have NO understanding of the limitations of a rig loaded with horses–other drivers are always going to be merging in front of you then slamming on the brakes for a turn or a light.

Even with a proper truck trailer combination and careful driving you still are often challenged by “normal” driving conditions. I once almost ran a person over who was trying to direct traffic and suddenly stepped in front of my (large) truck and trailer loaded with multiple horses, apparently assuming that I could stop as quickly as all the other sedans around me. Thankfully the person was able to get out of the way as I had my brakes to the floor and my hand on the horn.

There is a great book on trailering by Neve Scheve that discusses all the variables with towing, I’d recommend it so you can have the facts and decide for yourself what towing vehicle is best.

[keepthelegend]

We do it with a Brenderup no problem. I don’t think I would with any other trailer unless I just had a pony back there.

[IPEsq]

I would not. I borrowed a fairly light 2H with a Sequoia once out of desperation. The trailer wasn’t as light as yours, and it had one fairly large horse in it. It had tow package and trailer brake controller. It was a pretty local trip. I don’t ever want to do that again. For reference, I used to haul a 2H all day long all over the place (including mountains) with a 1/2 ton Suburban.

[AKB]

What is the weight of your trailer? If you have an older, 3,500lb trailer, plus two 1200lb horses, plus 1000 lbs of water, hay and tack, plus 600 lbs of people and people related stuff in the truck, you are over the capacity of the truck. I always like to have a minimum of 1000 lbs of extra, unused, towing capacity

[Doctracy]

I used to haul with a short bed Dodge 3/4 ton 4/4. I hated it even with a small stock trailer and 1-2 horses. It was fine to go a few miles on country roads to a hunt, but down the highway it was unstable and scary at times.

[Laurierace]

I tow with a Sequoia and do just fine. I have a two horse aluminum with no dressing room to make it as light as possible. I would not want anything smaller than that.

[MMavin]

A late model Sequoia is more similar to a Tundra than it is to the 4Runner. Love Sequoias. I couldn’t justify the expense vs a Tundra for my situation… For the OP, saying the Sequoia tows well does not mean a 4Runner is safe.

[IPEsq]

To clarify, the Sequoia (somewhat older model V8) pulled just fine. I just wasn’t comfortable with the stopping part, even with the trailer brakes set just shy of grabbing, and I always have thought Toyotas have good brakes. It was just not enough vehicle for towing horses for my liking.

[spacytracy]

Thank you everyone, we will definitely look into all the suggestions/warnings.
I just went back and re-read my post and realized that I wrote one of the models wrong. woops.
We currently have a Tundra. Want to look into a Sequoia (not tacoma) or a 4Runner.