traction

[pricestory]

After this weekend, I am convinced I have to do something for greater traction for Poppy. She slipped in dressage and in several of the hazards. I have been to enough of Lyle Peterson’s shoeing for the driving horse clinics that I THINK I know my options but still don’t know what fits my needs best. My issues are

1. arthritus in my hands makes my grip pretty weak making me question the idea of studs (plus in my hips and knees to be down that long to get them in)
   That makes me like the idea of drive in caulks that would always be there.
2. Poppy lives out all the time due to her allergies. That means she would have more possibilities to injure herself with caulks in all the time.
3. Seems like our slipping is in grass and I’m not sure how effective drill tec type stuff is in grass.
4. Although he probably would, my farrier REALLY hates the idea of anything except screw in studs.
   Help!!!

[horseyfolks]

Price… we use studs on both of Sam’ ponies. They were recommended by Sterling who feels they are a necessity for any CDE horse that competes regularly on different surfaces.

If you look close at most major shows the top drivers/ponies use studs. Sometimes the slightest advantage makes all the difference.

I was at the water hazard at Gayla and watched a number of horses (prelim and above) slip coming up onto the wet grass from the water. Sam uses them for all kinds of surfaces from gravel/sand mix (Bromont), to grass (Ironhorse, Gayla, Laurels, and Southern Pines), to mud (Black Prong) to wooden ramps (Florida Horse Park ).

At the Florida fall Fling, a few weeks back, the arena was a mix of sand and clay and with the rain we had it was a bit slippery. Sam put in studs and her ponies were able to get through the cones and hazards very quickly. Others without studs blamed their slower than normal times on the footing and never thought about putting in studs.

I think they are very important because if and when a horse slips, even if they don’t go down, it scares them and they lose confidence in themselves, you, and the whole situation. It really shows in the rest of their performance.

You can make it easier on your arthritis if instead of the tee wrench that comes with the studs you use a longer handled wrench (like a rachet wrench) to put them in/out with.

If you do choose to go with studs, make sure the spare set of shoes you carry are drilled and tapped also. If you lose a shoe and the replacement is not threaded you can’t use studs on only one side.

                     Don

[CDE_Driver]

I am in total agreement with Don and would like to add a couple of things…

I use studs at home if I am going to school hazards or do lots of galloping in the grass arena. I don’t want him to feel like he has to back off at all.

Do not ever space out and leave any of the studs in after your work is finished, says the unfortunate voice of experience.

I don’t know if it makes any difference, but my horse is a 16.2 hand Hanoverian that is very strong and athletic. I can’t imagine that an advanced pony goes with any less power per pound!

[Cartfall]

Hi Price,

I have to drive on asphalt roads to get to my trails. I want to make sure my mare has traction at all times–especially at CDEs. Like you my hands and knees won;t allow me to mess with studs. I found Dura-trek or Dura-track horse shoe nails–they have borium welded on to the heads of the nails. Luckily I knew of a farrier store and they carried them. They are not cheap–$45 dollars for a hundred nails. I had to convince my farrier I really wanted to use them. We tried a few different configurations and finally came up with 4 on each foot–he puts two on each side of the hoof–in the first and 4th holes. I continue to use them on her in her new job of distance horse.

I had some concerns of leaving the traction on her at all time. I did not use them over the summer when we weren;t doing much. I haven;t seen any problems with her from having them on during a whole season of driving.

They work. I was out with another driver last spring training for Georga. We had to walk down a driveway that was on a steep hill for about a quarter mile. The other horse had shoes but no traction and kept sliding while Looker walked along like normal.

It takes abit for the farrier to figure out how to nail on a nail with a round head.

Good luck
Sue

[pricestory]

The first year of the National Drive, my pony couldn’t keep her feet under her on the asphalt so Lyle put frost nails on her. He said they would wear off quickly so I wasn’t worried in the pasture. After that, my farrier got me borium tipped nails and I did use them in Ky at the Gayla and at Ky each year at the National Drive. They are great on pavement, I just am not sure how well they do on grass. And since they do wear off pretty quickly, I would have to either have them done at the show or time my shoeing closer to the show so I would still have some left.

[horseyfolks]

You know Price, I was thinking about what you and Cartfall said about not being able to put studs in easily… I’m pretty sure Poppy is good for the farrier… maybe you could get one of those little 3 legged stands that the farrier uses. It has a flexible piece of canvas (I think its canvas) that supports the hoof when you lay the hoof on it and it leaves the bottom of the foot open to work on. That’s probably a lousy description of what I’m trying to describe but I hope you see what I mean.

Then you don’t have to hold the foot on your knee while you are working on it… just a thought.

                        Don

[ZELLA]

My back can’t take a whole lot of fiddling with studs, either. If you put plugs in holes when they’re new, it saves A LOT of work cleaning them out later. I sit on a small stepstool with my pony’s foot in my lap, use a horseshoe nail to pry out the plug. Then spritz a bit of WD40 in the hole, run the tap through, and the studs go in very easily and quickly. Of course, this works best if the pony doesn’t dance around during the process! At Pine Tree I had roads in front and grass tips in back on Saturday and didn’t slide around.

How about making studs the navigator’s job? (Heh, heh)

[Renae]

Don I htought the same thing, patiently work with the horse so that it will keep its foot up on a hoof stand for as long as you need it to. These Hoof Jacks work very well http://www.alvinfarriersupply.com/shop/?shop=1&cat=25&cart=70417 (many other suppliers carry them too).

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=pricestory;2768048]

1. arthritus in my hands makes my grip pretty weak making me question the idea of studs (plus in my hips and knees to be down that long to get them in)[/QUOTE] I use tungsten road studs and basically they’re nails with a tungsten tip. You don’t have to keep taking them in and out. They’re there all the time.

2. Poppy lives out all the time due to her allergies. That means she would have more possibilities to injure herself with caulks in all the time.
   Every driving horse I have that wears shoes has a “road stud nail” and I’ve never in decades had any horse injure themselves with them.

3. Seems like our slipping is in grass and I’m not sure how effective drill tec type stuff is in grass.
   I don’t know what drill tec is but I know that my horses don’t slip on grass.

4. Although he probably would, my farrier REALLY hates the idea of anything except screw in studs.
   Why??? Sounds absolutely illogical to me.

Are you absolutely certain there’s not something else contributing to the slipping.

e.g. poor balanced or inappropriate trim?

You might get some good help and suggestions if you post on horseshoes.com.

There’s at least 4 farriers on there that actually have their own driving horses and know what they’re talking about and quite a few others that shoe driving horses routinely.

[pricestory]

Thanks Thomas. I’m assuming what you are talking about is the same kind of nails I used for Ky that are borium tipped. Not sure what the difference between borium and tungsten is. Drill teck is like borium that is applied to the bottom of the shoe.
I know her feet are balanced. She, on the other hand, may not always be balanced as we are going through the hazards although I try very hard to be smooth and not jerking her around.
The one other farrier around here who does driving horses is not as good as my guy about balancing the foot so I’m a little hesitant to use him. My farrier’s complaints are about straining tendons, borium pulling the shoe off (?) and stuff like that.

[goodhors]

Borium is a brand name for a mix of small tungsten carbide crystals and an alloy material that is worked with heat, to allow the material to stick to horse shoes, nails. You puddle the borium on the shoe, which allows the crystals to slightly protrude from alloy for grip on pavement, hard surfaces. Used as spots of grip, lines of grip, laid on horse shoes. Less grab on hard surface, with smaller crystals, yet will usually stop the hoof hard each landing time.

Drill-Tek is also a similar mix of larger tungsten carbide crystals and an alloy. Also used for grip on horse shoes. Preferred by some people for the more aggresive grip on pavement with bigger crystals. Can be more brittle if laid on metal of shoes thickly. Sometimes built up, making caulks, for heavy horses in farm use. Really stops any shod foot on pavement. Jar of stop will travel up the limb, can be a cause of cumulative injury over time.

In both, the alloy wears down, allowing sharp tungsten carbide crystals to stay exposed, gripping a hard surface well.

We like the drive-in, tungsten carbide, pin studs. Not sure if they are the same as Thomas’ road nails. The pin studs are shaped in a taper, put in a drilled hole of horse shoe, driven into shoe with a brass hammer. They wear, allowing sharp carbide to be steadily exposed, stay sharp all the time. Very little stud protruding from shoe, maybe 1/16", but does give very good grip on hard surface.

We prefer the pin studs because they allow some slip of hoof when landing on hard surface, not a sudden hoof halt each step. Slip is fractional, but aids horse hoof and leg in dissapating shock of landing with weight. No impact jar traveling up the leg like other products create. Unshod horses have the same type of hoof slip, when they run and play. Horse legs are designed to work with a slip factor, to disappate impact. Any of the driving horses here, wear pin studs whenever they are shod.

We have never had slipping problems on dirt, mud, grass, when competing with pin studs. Our horses are pretty catty when needed, know how to use themselves in tight places. Of course there is mud and Gladstone!! Have not tried them there, but mud has been deep, slick in other places with no problems.

What we see with the screw-in studs is threading problems. Very easy to mess up the shoe threads, trying to put studs in the shoe. With cross-threaded holes, studs are about impossible to make set into shoes. May not stay in, for the whole competition. Screw-in studs give the most versatility for extreme conditions.

[pricestory]

Do you buy them or does your farrier have them in the truck? Does he shape the shoe, then put them in or put them in before he comes? Name of the stud? Sounds good to me.

[horseyfolks]

Goodhorse, do you still compete in CDEs? There are not that many 4’s, we have probably seen you and not even realized it. That would be a shame… would love to meet you.

Where do you compete at? Do you ever get down to the Florida shows?

Don

[goodhors]

Price, Farrier should be able to put pin studs in shoe after shaping. My husband is the farrier here, uses a small drill-press in his truck. Hole in shoe MUST be straight, to set the pin stud into. Pin studs are tapered, so each step horse takes, drives the stud into shoe again. We can usually get a reset or two with the set of studs. Where you set them in shoe, can vary, depending on size and how much grab you want.

Pin studs are readily available, many farriers carry them. Mustad makes and sells them. Some folks buy a box themselves, have farrier put them in shoes. Save the drill bit they come with, odd size is exactly right for studs. Ask you local farrier, he might carry them. We find they work well on horses up to a size 5 shoe. Above that, horse weight will shear them off, too much force on impact.

Don, we haven’t been able to compete for a couple years. We would love to, but husband is the driver, and his arm is giving him fits in driving. Darn thing is no problem working, but can’t take ANY rein pull for more than a few minutes. Have to have a little pull, rein weight, feeling the horses mouths to balance them. He has had it worked on a couple times, is due again first part of Dec. Hope to FINALLY have it fixed to drive again. Just wear and tear over a long time of work and use. Hoping the recovery time goes fast, so he can start doing some work with the young horses. Stinks when you can’t play like you want to!

He has been doing some Farrier talks, educating them on driving horse needs. How the traction, support needs are different for competition driving animals and pleasure driving, from what riding horses need. Customers having given their Farrier a ride to show their horse usages, doing some hazards at slow speed, had some LOUD remarks coming back from his audiences. “Nothing like it! and SCARY!!” were popular!!

It would be fun to meet sometime.

[HackneyHorseDriver]

I am blessed with a wonderful farrier that goes the extra mile. He has worked with us to find the perfect balance for our driving horses. We drive on sand, dirt, grass, gravel, and ashpalt during show season. We changed last year to the pin studs and LOVE them. No issues in water crossings, wet grass, or ashpalt. The horses have had no soundness issue, slipping, or unsteady drive. In fact my mares performance has imporved over when we used borium or screw in studs.
Best of luck,
Denise

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=goodhors;2771434]

We like the drive-in, tungsten carbide, pin studs. Not sure if they are the same as Thomas’ road nails. The pin studs are shaped in a taper, put in a drilled hole of horse shoe, driven into shoe with a brass hammer. They wear, allowing sharp carbide to be steadily exposed, stay sharp all the time. Very little stud protruding from shoe, maybe 1/16", but does give very good grip on hard surface. [/QUOTE]

Glad you spotted this posting. I was hoping you’d reply and translate to American what I was meaning and using!

It sounds absolutely the same as what I use.

We prefer the pin studs because they allow some slip of hoof when landing on hard surface, not a sudden hoof halt each step. Slip is fractional, but aids horse hoof and leg in dissapating shock of landing with weight. No impact jar traveling up the leg like other products create. Unshod horses have the same type of hoof slip, when they run and play. Horse legs are designed to work with a slip factor, to disappate impact. Any of the driving horses here, wear pin studs whenever they are shod.
I absolutely and entirely agree with that and its precisely the reason why I use them rather than some great big “clunky” calk or screw in stud.

We have never had slipping problems on dirt, mud, grass, when competing with pin studs.
Ditto.

Our horses are pretty catty when needed, know how to use themselves in tight places. Of course there is mud and Gladstone!! Have not tried them there, but mud has been deep, slick in other places with no problems.
I find it difficult to imagine anywhere in the world that could possibly have mud worse than the good ol rainy UK!!!

What we see with the screw-in studs is threading problems. Very easy to mess up the shoe threads, trying to put studs in the shoe. With cross-threaded holes, studs are about impossible to make set into shoes. May not stay in, for the whole competition.
Yep. Been there and seen that and tried to help folks who’ve had problems with that.

Screw-in studs give the most versatility for extreme conditions.
I use those for ridden eventing. But never personally needed to use them at all for any of the horse driving trials horses.

[ladyfarrier]

Not to necessarily disagree with any of the opinions posted here, but as a farrier of 25 years and horse owner for longer than that, I have very definite opinions about “traction” on a horses feet.

Yes, it is much easier and more convenient to permanently attach some type of traction to the shoes. Requires no more effort on the owners part other than checking to make sure it’s still there. BUT…I do believe very strongly that this additional traction takes its toll on the joints of the leg long term. No, your horse probably isn’t going to go lame in six months (although they may be sore, you just don’t know it yet). But long term, down the line, if the foot doesn’t have the ability to breakover as it wishes and have a little movement, then the movement that is blocked in the hoof will be transferred to the joints. And that adds up, long term.

I personally have always used (on my own horses) screw in caulks. Even when showing dressage, as sometimes inclement weather would make the corners of a sand ring a bit slippery, and my horses appreciated having the extra confidence that studs can give. On grass, studs are a given. Jumping on an outside course after a rain I was grateful to be able to use an appropriate screw-in stud. Using removeable ones means you can tailor the amount of traction to the specific conditions on any given day.

As a farrier I found the stud holes fairly easy to drill and tap without problems. There are specific tools that make the job easier, and more accurate and I took the time (and a written handout) to educate first-timers on how to install the studs. It’s not rocket science <G>.

Yes, they can be harder, physically, to install for the owner. But as mentioned, use a small stool to sit on. There are various types of hoof stands that your horse can rest their foot on…Hoofjack is a comfortable and safe one. Try wrapping the handles of your cleaning tools and stud wrench with Vetwrap to give you a bigger, softer surface to grip. I personally kept the empty stud holes filled with a blank stud and never had any real difficulty removing them, although it’s helpful to do it occasionally between uses.

My observation in using the tipped nails was that yes, they work, and as are somewhat more “changeable” depending on the availability of a farrier on short notice. I also noticed that the torque exerted on the nail itself could make some horses tender in the wall area, no matter how carefully placed the nail itself.

It’s a pain to deal with them, more effort for the owner, for sure. But long term I think that removeable studs are in the best interest of the horse, if you plan on having them stay sound for a long time. The owner may not be aware of the discomfort a horse experiences due to full time, round the clock traction until it becomes a lameness issue–but you can be sure your horse knows the difference.

JMHO, of course

[pricestory]

Ladyfarrier, that is exactly what my farrier is concerned about. So I guess my choices are

1. Get the shoes drilled, invest in the studs and see if I can make it work
   or
2. Try the pin studs and maybe just use them during the times I’m competing, which would be maybe 2 setting in the spring, one in the fall.
   Thanks everyone for your input. Let me know if you come up with something else I need to consider.

[goodhors]

[QUOTE=ladyfarrier;2774227]
Not to necessarily disagree with any of the opinions posted here, but as a farrier of 25 years and horse owner for longer than that, I have very definite opinions about “traction” on a horses feet.

Yes, it is much easier and more convenient to permanently attach some type of traction to the shoes. Requires no more effort on the owners part other than checking to make sure it’s still there. BUT…I do believe very strongly that this additional traction takes its toll on the joints of the leg long term. No, your horse probably isn’t going to go lame in six months (although they may be sore, you just don’t know it yet). But long term, down the line, if the foot doesn’t have the ability to breakover as it wishes and have a little movement, then the movement that is blocked in the hoof will be transferred to the joints. And that adds up, long term.

:)[/QUOTE]

You can come on over, anytime you are visiting Michigan again, check out the horses wearing the pin studded shoes. You knowBrian, he will be glad to explain things I may miss. No one here is ever sore or lame with pin studs in shoes, no cumulative problems down the road in long term usages.

We have been using the pin studs since they were first available from Heinke Bean, late 1980’s I think. We never liked how the Borium worked on road driving, too much grab. However at the time, it was all that was really workable on hard surfaced roads. Drill-Tek was much worse, grabbed so hard it would stop the movement of a train, let alone a horse leg. Both products did cause lots of leg problems to many horses, ridden and driven.

Some of our older horses have been using the pin studs since we found out about them. This would include our old Leaders, both 20+ now. They were shod year round, when husband was driving steadily, competing and keeping them fit. They both have lovely legs, have always been sound for use unless physically injured, cut. Never leg sore, or off in their way of going. Still are sound, NO leg issues after all these years of heavy usage.

The wheelers are also sound, no leg problems. The pin studs have caused no issues with them over many years of usage, lots of miles under those hooves.

One wheeler has been used by the kids, shod the same as always, with his pin studs. He has excellent grip, EXTREMELY confident of his footing in all conditions, at all speeds. He NEVER had a problem in riding uses during Combined Training, on cross-country or Show Jumping with son. Doing Driving, Speed classes, Western Pleasure, some Dressage, English Pleasure in shows with daughter. Going back to the jumping lessons with her, for jumping classes next summer.

I do take exception to the way “convenience of owner” is being used in reference to pin studs. Makes us sound pretty lazy! Pin studs are convenient yes. However pin studs have proved themselves to us, under all conditions, as exceptional aids to give horses the traction they need, WITHOUT secondary issues arising. Traction grab of pin studs is minimal, but effective. No issues we have seen in use, or developing from long term use in hard work on pavement or dirt. Horse is ALWAYS prepared, whatever daily use he has. Don’t have to THINK, “he needs studs today it is muddy out or grass is dry and slippery” before driving down the field. Safer in my opinion. Other kinds of local performance horses are using pin studs, going better than before with borium or screw-in studs. Secondary problems have gone away with change.

Placement and quantity of pins used, will vary for size of horse, uses animal will be put to. Pin studs should NOT affect breakover, they are not placed at edge of shoe toes. Horse has same normal breakover he would if shoes were plain steel. Pins are behind breakover wear marks on shoes here. Maybe pin studs would only be on shoe heels. This would be on both the big horses and the little horse, when we had her shod for cross-country jumping courses.

Of course you always want horse going comfortably, correctly, so he needs a good breakover on his hooves, shod or bare. Studs are strictly traction, nothing to do with breakover point of hoof leaving the ground because they are not placed in that breakover location on shoes.

I do think going boldly forward is better than trying to make horse mince along in bad footing, ridden or driven. Horse can be bold if he is confident of his footing. Ours are bold at all times, we don’t let them get hurt. Rider or driver confidence plays a HUGE part in traction selections. If you haven’t tried another method, you shouldn’t downplay it. We USED to use screw-ins riding, the pin studs work better, less aggravation, still good grip in our experiences.

For those who wish to use screw-ins, you will get a lot of variety of studs to choose from.

The pictures of folks with bad hands sitting on stools to screw in those studs makes me shiver. Just not a safe way of doing things, ESPECIALLY at a show or competition setting. Horse is always a little up, more excitable there. May react unexpectedly or in bad ways there. You can’t move away from quick horse or pony turning, if you are sitting down, juggling studs.

Hoof stand is slightly better, but you still have less vision with hoof resting sole on stand. You trying to screw in the studs you may have trouble gripping, getting in straight, tightening them down. Sorry, I NEVER lay bone or joints on a metal rest, to work on hooves. Metal and bone touching, striking each other in movement, cause bad bruises, cuts, if horse moves unexpectedly. Does sound like the screw-in stud users have a harder time of getting them in, correctly.

This is where the cross-threading problems can start. Great if there is a farrier with TIME to come fix your problem. May not have anyone available. My farrier husband would love to help, but he is getting prepared for his own tests, mentally checking off routes, plans, has FOUR horses to get prepared. Our time is calculated so we are all ready ON TIME, not early or late. There is nothing quick in getting four ready to drive. We all have our own jobs to do in preparation. There just is no “couple minutes” extra to go to the tent and fix another’s animal. Maybe if he was all done, yes, but not when we are preparing.

Horseshoe suppliers carry the pin studs if your farrier doesn’t want to stock them. One supplier we uses is Goodyear. I am pretty sure they stock the pin studs.

Goodyear Horseshoe Supply
9372 N. Seymour Rd.
Montrose, MI 48457
Phone: 810-639-2591
Toll Free: 800-842-0818
Fax:
Email: teriketchum@hotmail.com

[ladyfarrier]

If you choose to use screw in studs

Price, try to find ways to make it easier on yourself. As I mentioned, either the Hoofjack to hold the foot, or if you have a really good pony, will they let you rest the foot on your thighs if you’re sitting down. Mine would rest the hoof on a milk carton if I asked them.

Dover Saddlery and other places sell a cleaning tool that has a large round plastic top to it, so you’re not having to grasp a small metal tool to clean out the threads before screwing in studs. And if the horse does put their foot down in the middle of cleaning, it’s less apt to do damage to the horse.

Buy a little metal “dish” that has a magnet under it–mechanics use these, or simply put a magnet into a small metal bowl. Use this to take your studs to, and from, the horse. Dropping them in shavings or sawdust is very frustrating <g>.

Keep the studs in a small container filled with oil during the off season, and keep them oiled between uses during the competition season.

And obviously, never, ever leave them on the horse when not actually driving.

Yes, it’s extra work. But I personally think the longevity of your horses soundness is worth it.