Tractor--I am so pissed

[vineyridge]

Last winter, the JD place replaced the clutch on the tractor (JD 870) and the PTO drive shaft on my rotary cutter. Until then, I’d never had a moment’s worry with the engine and cutting tall grass in my pasture. It ran like a champ and would mow anything. Ever since it’s been back, it gets hot and wants to die.

It just came home from the shop yesterday. While there, the coolant was flushed and replaced, the fuel tank was cleaned, and a leak in the fuel strainer lines was stopped. So, according to the manual, the thermostat might be bad or it could be something related to the new clutch and/or PTO shaft.

I went down to mow my pasture for the first time this season, and the tractor simply didn’t have the power to do it. It kept trying to kill. I’d raise the mower deck, drop down to a lower gear, and it would work for a while. Then it just quit being able to mow, even grass that was only eight inches high. In fact, I turned off the PTO, raised the deck, and put it into road gear, and it tried to die coming down the road.

It has less than 1000 hours on the motor, been serviced by JD exclusively, and has never before they replaced those parts had any lack of power for what I want to do with it. And that means cutting pasture that was exactly like the pasture today.

I’m wondering if a maladjusted clutch and or PTO drive shaft to the cutter could destroy the engine. And if not, what the hell is going on?

[clanter]

JD 870 is diesel…can you drain some of the fuel out of the tank to see if by chance someone put some gasoline in the tank ?

[vineyridge]

[QUOTE=clanter;8710693]
JD 870 is diesel…can you drain some of the fuel out of the tank to see if by chance someone put some gasoline in the tank ?[/QUOTE]

Given that the JD place cleaned out the fuel tank (and said they found all sorts of junk in it), they would have been the ones to put a modicum of fuel in it before bringing it home yesterday. I then went to the farm diesel tank and filled it up. I know I put diesel in; I would certainly think JD would have.

[SuzieQNutter]

When we bought our farm the local tractor place brought out the 2nd hand tractor they were selling us and took it down to teach me how it worked and how to plough. I put it in gear and started going. The tractor went for half a paddock and stopped. He asked me what I had done. I said I hadn’t done amything it stopped on its own accord.

They brought us a loan tractor and took our tractor back to work on it. They had to split it in two and did so at no cost to us.

[goodhors]

Perhaps a radiator problem if it isn’t a thermostat issue going.

My diesel temp Guage never goes above the C in use EXCEPT when I get things on the radiator screen. When the screen in front of the radiator gets covered with dandelion seeds while mowing , sawdust from stacking it higher after delivery with dust in the air, the Guage will go higher than the C. I know now that I need to blow off the radiator screen so radiator is able to be efficient again with a free flow of air over it. With a clean screen the temp guage drops right down below the C again.

Might be a possibility with tractor getting so hot, that some part of the cooling system is not working at peak effectiveness.

I would be as unhappy as you sound! Sure sounds like the JD folks have not fixed right, since it is not working for you. Sure hope you can get it back to working as needed soon.

[seabreeze]

I would be, too. We have a JD garden tractor that we just spent a great deal of money on repairing “little things.” Got it back from the JD dealership (where we have everything repaired and serviced), and it would start choking out after a period of time and not restart. They came and got it THREE times and supposedly “fixed it” and each time it has done the same thing when we got it home. I finally figured out the problem on my own. The fuel tank is becoming pressurized. If I take off the gas cap, it runs fine. So the venting system is clogged in some way. I called the service manager two times and even went into the dealership once (he wasn’t there) to tell him I’ve figured it out, just need them to come fix it. Has he bothered to call me back? Nope. So guess where I WON’T be going when it comes time to make another major purchase? YEP.

I feel your frustration. I hope you get your problem solved. Nothing more stressful this time of year than not being able to mow.

[Bluey]

We had that problem when our decades long 9 miles away JD dealership closed.

The next one we used, 24 miles away, just was not very good.

We checked around better and found another, 40 miles away, that is great and gets things fixed well and quickly.
Worth paying a bit more trip money to get them on our machines.
We have been using them for about ten years and they do good work.

We also hear at times from people that use other brands having the same problems, so not sure any one is better than others, just the individual dealerships have better or worse service and mechanics at different times.

OP, take your machine somewhere else for a second opinion, maybe?

[hosspuller]

I suspect you might have two problems.
You say the engine gets hot… The coolant system was flushed & changed. It should not be getting hot.

You say the fuel strainer leak was fixed and the fuel tank was cleaned. Sounds like the engine is being starved for fuel. This should not happen.

In sum, The dealer worked on the cooling and fuel system. Call the dealer that did the work to fix the problems they may have caused.

[jawa]

Our JD had been bogging out at odd times, under hard work,might work, beginning of the work, after working ALL day with no issue.

We had a traveling mechanic take a look…he wasn’t sure, but tried a thing or two. We sent it to the dealership as it was time for regular maintenance. We spent close to $1000 to have it STILL do the same thing. There is a guy who has a shop in his back yard. He had it for a week cutting grass, trying to get it to exhibit the problem. It ended up being an issue in the wiring harness that was causing the fuel to be cut off. WAY less than $1000 and the tractor is working great. We are very happy to have found him!!!

[Jim_in_PA]

A lot of “power” issues like this are fuel related with diesel tractors. It could be something directly in the fuel path (including the fuel) or something related like jawa mentions. I know that when my little Kubota starts acting strange like that, it’s likely something along those lines…and it’s proven true every time.

[gumtree]

Did you buy it new?

I bought my JD 5525 new in 2005 it has under 2000 hrs. I never had any issues with it and no major service. It has never been back to the JD dealer since buying for service. Thankfully. My “run-ins” with the service manager were not pleasant. Others have said the same.

My local JD was bought up as others by a “company”.My farmer neighbors have said the new ownership sucks compared to when it was family owned.

Replacing the clutch and usually the plate should have no bearing on the issues you are having. If the clutch was installed incorrectly and you are loosing “power” the RPMs would go up without an increase in speed/power.

The cooling system is pretty much the same since water cooled engines were first made. Either the water circulates properly or it doesn’t. Pretty easy to diagnose. Assuming it is a “generic” cooling system there are only 2 replaceable parts that can fail, the thermostat and the water pump. Thermostats can and do fail, stay closed or only open partially. I don’t know the tractor but replacing a thermostat is usually a very easy DIY unless it is buried under a lot of stuff that has to be removed to get to it.

When I have suspected a bad thermostat I just take it out reconnect everything and run it. If it runs normal Bob’s your uncle install a new one. They should be pretty inexpensive but JD can and does rape,rob and pillage with these sort of parts.

Keep in mind that depending on ambient temps it may run on the cool side of things because there is no thermostat opening and or closing to maintain designed running temps. But IMO and experience there is no harm in using it until the thermo is replaced. Unless this tractor has a computer controlled fuel regulated system. Which meters fuel delivery based on engine temps sent by various sensors.

Failed or failing water kind of usual on a tractor can usually be diagnosed by running until the temp gauge hits normal and or higher. Put on a pair of gloves and squeeze the hoses, return and supply from the radiator. They should be pressurized you should be able to feel water circulating, in other words check for a “pulse”.

The only other thing is a clogged radiator and or a clog in the water ports in the engine. But this was just serviced and I would like think after servicing they would have checked things out for proper function before giving it back.

As to the PTO shaft, is this a belly mower or 3 pt hitch? Either way I don’t see how this would have an effect on what you are describing.

Your tractor and mine have basically the same type of hydraulic system which “runs” just about everything, transmission, bucket, 3 pt hitch, power steering, etc.

There is a filter (pricey) that has to be replaced from time to time. My tractor will drops a lot in performance and runs hotter when it needs changing. With my tractor it needs to be changed a lot sooner then the service manual states. With 1000 hours I would change it as a matter of course. With a new tractor this is usually changed at around 300 hours. The service manual will tell you.

This is an easy DIY also. Not much different than changing an oil filter on a car. You will need to buy additional hydraulic oil. I don’t buy it from JD their price is out outrageous compare to the same thing that can be bought at Tractor Supply.

This link shows where the filter is on your tractor. About 3/4 of the way down the page.

http://manuals.deere.com/cceomview/OMM139226_A9/Output/OMM139226_A910.html

The lack of power maybe fuel related. Failing injector pump? But the tell tail is usually “white smoke” from the exhaust from time to time and the “song/tune” of the engine changes. Possibly failing injectors.

Every piece of power equipment has its own “song”. When it starts to sing out of key something is wrong. Different “notes” can mean different things. Help in diagnosing.

MY JD has run like a champ for years, never had fuel problems or any major issues. I run some big equipment with it, bale a lot of hay, use the FEL to its full capacity if not over. Which is why it has a great re-sale value. Especially from a horse operation. Farmers know they are lightly used compared to what they do with them.

[vineyridge]

As I think about the problem, I’m wondering if the new PTO drive shaft is just too heavy for the engine. It seems to weigh almost twice as much as the JD shaft on the JD cutter that it replaced. This is only a 28 horse/24 horse at the PTO tractor. According to the owner’s manual, it’s overheating and the first thing that’s mentioned is overloading. So if it’s trying to turn a shaft that weighs more than the engine can handle, that would lead to overheating. And when it’s trying to cut in heavy grass, the extra stress on the PTO would lead to more engine stress, more heat, and much less power.

Anyway, I now know enough to go to the shop and talk to the manager people about what’s wrong.

[vineyridge]

Update. JD picked it up and took it to their shop. Couldn’t find anything particularly wrong. Brought it back out here and mowed some short grass. Noticed a pulse in the motor while it was cutting, but it ran. Then I took the JD person down to the Johnson Grass infested part of the pasture that had bogged it down so badly before. Within 20 feet it was unable to cut. Mechanic dude on it decided that it was probably a fuel pump problem. Now why they did not check and clean out the fuel pump at the same time they found all the trash in the gas tank, I will never know, But tech says it’s not the clutch adjustment and it’s not the cutter or cutter PTO or the thermostat–and they cleaned and changed the air filter, which I would have thought they would have done when it was generally serviced back in November.

Gumtree, I have the original owner’s manual for the tractor. It does not mention changing transmission oil EVER. Nor does it mention front axle oil except for tractors with MFWD, which I don’t have. It does talk about changing the hydraulic oil at 500 hours, but I didn’t own the tractor then and I’m sure the previous owner did all the service at her JD place. Since it hasn’t gotten to 1000 hours yet, it should still be okay.

If it turns out not to be the fuel pump, I will be triple pissed.

[nashfad]

I will tell you what I would do. I would go to the JD place and have a serious talk with the service mgr…plain and simple…“fix my tractor and I am not paying one red cent more”…do not let him interrupt you or demean you… actually write down what you want to say and take it with you and read it to him. If there is anyone above him skip the mgr and go up the ladder. If this store is a franchise (JD may be) get to the owner and explain how unhappy you are and what has been going on.At this point, skip straight to the top.

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8716527]
Update. JD picked it up and took it to their shop. Couldn’t find anything particularly wrong. Brought it back out here and mowed some short grass. Noticed a pulse in the motor while it was cutting, but it ran. Then I took the JD person down to the Johnson Grass infested part of the pasture that had bogged it down so badly before. Within 20 feet it was unable to cut. Mechanic dude on it decided that it was probably a fuel pump problem. Now why they did not check and clean out the fuel pump at the same time they found all the trash in the gas tank, I will never know, But tech says it’s not the clutch adjustment and it’s not the cutter or cutter PTO or the thermostat–and they cleaned and changed the air filter, which I would have thought they would have done when it was generally serviced back in November.

Gumtree, I have the original owner’s manual for the tractor. It does not mention changing transmission oil EVER. Nor does it mention front axle oil except for tractors with MFWD, which I don’t have. It does talk about changing the hydraulic oil at 500 hours, but I didn’t own the tractor then and I’m sure the previous owner did all the service at her JD place. Since it hasn’t gotten to 1000 hours yet, it should still be okay.

If it turns out not to be the fuel pump, I will be triple pissed.[/QUOTE]

I guess I wasn’t clear, I did not mean change the hydraulic/transmission oil assuming this uses hydraulic/transmission system. Just the filter. Depending on how much hydraulic oil is lost while doing this will dictate how much will be needed to bring it back up to “full”.

This tractor may not even use this type of “system”. I took the time to check if the owner/service manual could be had for free on line. JD is too cheap to offer it as a free down load.

Checking the fuel pump output is pretty simple with an inexpensive inline pressure gauge. Surprised they didn’t do this as a routine service.

Let us know what the fix is.

[vineyridge]

The owner’s manual you linked to is for a different tractor–the 790. Mine is an 870.

I just ordered the John Deere Service manual for my tractor from repairmanuals.com. I already have the technical manual, so am hoping this is not a duplicate of something I already have.