Trailer Hauling Licensure Question

[sp56]

I’m trying to figure out if it’s worth hauling for my clients. I’ve been having a devil of a time trying to find the proper information. I’ve read through the DMV website and contacted CHP as well for information.

Facts:
~ I’m in California. Not planning on crossing state lines.
~ I have a Ford F-250 Diesel (GVWR 8800lbs).
~ The trailer is a Logan 4-horse gooseneck (unladen 6000lbs, GVWR 11,120lbs).
~ My trainer liability insurance has Care, Custody, & Control which covers the horses.

Questions:
~ Do I need a Commercial Class A license? (Would I need one even if I hauled just for myself?)
~ What expense is involved with getting the license?
~ Is the Class A license needed if I hauled a smaller trailer? Does the gooseneck vs bumper pull make a difference?
~ What minimum insurance would I need to haul?
~ What kind of log book would I need to maintain?
~ What sort of inspections need to be done on the vehicles?

I know it’s a lot but I appreciate anyone who can offer some insight! Thank you!

[gumtree]

Can’t answer your questions because I don’t live in California. Might be worth calling your auto/truck insurance agent. California seems to have a lot of rules and regs. I would bet they could answer what kind needed if any other than the license all of us have.

Just guessing but I doubt you will need to get a CDL license if you are just hauling horses as a “sideline”. Not as a “commercial shipper”, advertising your services, setting it up as a business, etc.

Just about everybody I know that has a farm hauls horses as part of their boarding business and or for others from time to time. I’ve hauled horses for others from here to Mass, west to KY and south to Florida. Never been pulled over and asked for my “papers”. When crossing into Florida there is an Ag check point that we have to stop at and present health papers, Coggins and Health Cert. But they don’t ask who owns the horses and if I am being paid by others.

I and others have been doing this for as long as can remember. I’m curious what you find out. Maybe we all of have been breaking the law.

[Tory]

Your insurance agent would be the one for best advice. Typically insurance premiums are more for personal vehicles that are used for business purposes. And you may want to find out what the insurance company feels about the “value” of the horses inside that trailer. I wouldn’t want to be underinsured and have a client sue me for the value of their horse.

[Palm_Beach]

I think it depends on whether or not you charge your clients for hauling, not how often or how far. Once you accept money for hauling, you enter the realm of being a commercial entity. But, I agree that you need to look into this further.

[hosspuller]

How to make criminals of many, many regular people. Or DOT regulations explained

If you are hauling as part of a commercial enterprise … making money, no matter how minimal, You need a CDL (Commercial Driver’s License) :eek:

Even if not crossing state line, many state enforcements are taking their cue from the Feds.

Read this thread http://www.horsetrailerworld.com/forum/thread-view.asp?threadid=20679&start=1

From the thread …

What gets horse haulers in trouble with DOT is violating the line 390.3(f)(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/390.3

[js]

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/pubs/dl648/dl648pt2

I think that tells you what class of license you will need. Talk to your insurance agent about what insurance you will need. I don’t know what expenses are involved but if you read on the web site you would have to take the test including a driving test with the vehicle you tow etc. and either submit a health form or answer questions regarding your health. Go by your DMV office and ask.

[Brian]

Everything you need to know is right here…http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=veh&group=34001-35000&file=34500-34520.5

All black & white and clear as mud.

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=hosspuller;8636228]

From the thread …

What gets horse haulers in trouble with DOT is violating the line 390.3(f)(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/390.3[/QUOTE]

But when you read this code - what you quoted above is an exception and is NOT subject to the rules of the code.

OP, although I am no expert, my understanding is if you CHARGE anything for hauling services (and charge doesn’t have to mean money, it can mean trade for services, etc), then you need a commercial license. So no problem for me hauling my friend’s horse for free, but if I tell my friends I will haul their horses for $100, now I’m commercial.

And, since you are already a trainer, my guess (fwiw), is hauling client horses would be commercial activity. I agree with all the others - check with your insurance company, check with DMV.

[BeeHoney]

I looked into this a few years ago for my state. Yes, technically if you are charging money to haul horses you “should” have a CDL. But quite frankly, I don’t know a single person barn owner/barn manager that also hauls horses for clients that does have a CDL. Anyway, it’s one more reason that I find hauling horses for people to be an unattractive enterprise. FWIW personally I am insured to haul client horses, but do not have a CDL.

[TullyMars]

I am in California and going through this right now and DMV is helpless. So any trailer over 10,000 GVWR MUST have a class A on a horse trailer. RV’s are different. If you are hauling for yourself it will be a Class A non commercial. If you are hauling for $ at all then you must be Class A Commercial.

[IronwoodFarm]

I would check with my liability carrier about CCC covering hauling. Generally speaking, CCC only covers negligence caused by the insured. I believe you need commercial auto coverage if you haul for money.

[TullyMars]

I found the true answers to come from my local scales. DMV was completely inept at answering questions. I live in an area that is being heavily enforced. I was told to get a “heavies” endorsement by DMV, which I did. But that only covers an RV 10k to 15k. Horse trailer is a whole new beast and regardless over 10k GVWR you are in(for me private for my own horses)Non Commercial Class A. I was also counseled to never say I was going to a show. The standard answer should be going to a lesson, going to the vet, going on a trail ride, etc… They put shows together as though we have prize money and revenue. Not the real truth of the matter that the majority of us will never make money at a show!(Me anyway!) So according to the DMV I should have been fine with just my endorsement. They also could not find any of the tests that I needed to take and it was about 5 hours out of my day to make this happen!

[Jeannette_formerly_ponygyrl]

Seems like there are 2 organizations which might care about our status - our vehicle insurance co, and the DMV/DOT/weigh station/State Trooper. Our insurance co probably only actively cares if there is an accident, but then I bet they care a whole whole lot if there are any damages…

The DOT caring might depend more on state budgets and trooper moods.  Not a scientific, footnoted distinction, but it might be helpful in thinking through what you need to do as a hauler...

[hosspuller]

@MysticOakRanch;8636370

But when you read this code - what you quoted above is an exception and is NOT subject to the rules of the code.

Like many laws … The words mean the opposite. You’re correct, I’ve quoted the exception to the fed rules. But the “exception” itself has requirements that make one subject to the fed DOT rules. “not for compensation nor furtherance of a commercial enterprise” These words mean …You get money or benefit a business then the exception no longer applies.

[digihorse]

Yes. However, there are quite a few who dodge this by putting “not for hire” on their rig. I’m sure if an agency went digging they would be in hot water, as well as if they had an accident

[Hinderella]

This article is a couple of years old but still has lots of good information in it:
http://instrideedition.com/2014/09/are-you-legal-transporting-horses-across-state-lines/

[Lizrd]

My trailer inspection place has me go through rehearsal every time I am there.

Officer - where you going?
Me - for a trail ride.
Officer - do you show?
Me - nope, this is just for pleasure.
Officer - are both horses yours?
Me - Yep!

They remind me that the general rule is you are allowed to haul your own horses for pleasure. Anything else = CDL. I have some really, really ticket-happy townships that I drive through and I am always watchful. Should I get pulled over I will magically own both 17h trail-riding warmblood hunters!