Trailering with Range Rover

[sweetsalute]

@FitToBeTied

I do think people really forget how big the United States really is. From Los Angeles to New York City is about 2790 miles. Shreveport Louisanna to El Paso Texas (basically crossing texas) is 873 miles. There is also topography to consider. Between the appalachians and the rockies it is essentially flat. However, if you are traveling the east coast and west coast, you deal with a lot of mountains. I know traveling here in Virginia, its very hill to mountains in the west part of the state.

Just chiming back in…have you seen how big Australia is And spread out…I live in the third biggest city and the next closest is at least a 12 hour drive. People regularly make these trips for events (and further). All towing with our “too small to tow” vehicles! Our speed limits are usually 70mph on the highways, although a good chunk of people go faster.

A very common destination within a couple hours from me is up a steep steep mountain that is notorious for big trucks failing to break, has gravel arrester beds everywhere the whole way and people manage just fine. Again though, I’ll acknowledge our trailers are likely more like European ones than American ones so generally lighter etc.

Less so now as they don’t manufacture them anymore, but it used to be very common to see people towing with rear wheel drive utes…which were essentially a sedan with the boot replaced with a tray. Admittedly I would never because I’ve seen too many get stuck in muddy situations where AWD/4WD got other people out, but it really does seem to be an American specific attitude that you need giant trucks.

[endlessclimb]

Again. As long as the driver of the rig with the trailer on it has a brain, goes at or slightly below the speed limit, and stays to the right… there is absolutely no issue.

[FitToBeTied]

@Impressive_Star

Realistically I would probably not be towing more then 20miles and less then a dozen times of year.

I’ve seen this argument before and its not really valid as say the terrain, etc. When I am going hunting my trips are short and local as well. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been cut off on nice flat highways. You seem to have made up your mind. Get what you want and good luck.

[endlessclimb]

Yes, and me in my 51’ rig the same. The truck doesn’t change that risk. If we want to eliminate all risk we wouldn’t haul our horses anywhere, or we would hire Brookledge to take us to a trailhead and to shows.

You do the best with what you’ve got.

Does a 15k custom saddle probably fit the horse better than the one purchased used for 1.2k? Probably. But not everyone can afford the former, and as long as some care is taken with the latter it’s more than likely doable.

[rothmpp]

@endlessclimb

Again. As long as the driver of the rig with the trailer on it has a brain, goes at or slightly below the speed limit, and stays to the right… there is absolutely no issue.

As I’ve said, I don’t think you necessarily need a 1 ton dually to haul a 2 horse trailer 2 miles down the road, but I do think you need to consider the wheel base of the towing vehicle vs the the weight/wheel base of the trailer.

The problem I’ve tried to bring up is that you can be the most careful driver on the road, but you’re not driving in a bubble. There are other, much less careful drivers on the road. It’s called an accident for a reason. Just this fall I was on the expressway hauling a trailer, and there was an a*hole driver who passed me in a lifted pickup truck hauling a gooseneck trailer with 2 huge off road trucks at what had to be 90MPH. He was about 5 car lengths in front of me when the driver side dually wheels sheared off, rim and all, the whole rig eventually rolled onto its side. I don’t know that I’d have gotten wrapped up in the accident if I’d had a smaller truck/suv, but I do know that I was able to step hard on the brakes, swerve around the worst of the debris and keep control of the trailer. And this happened 10 miles from my house.

I don’t think you need a huge truck for occasional hauling, but I do think we owe it to our horses to make it as safe for them as possible.

[endlessclimb]

I agree with you. But accidents happen with big rigs too! Like you said, it’s not a bubble.

The best we can do is to maintain our equipment properly, and drive with a brain. Those two things will prevent the vast majority of problems.

[SecondInCommand]

@endlessclimb

Yes, and me in my 51’ rig the same. The truck doesn’t change that risk. If we want to eliminate all risk we wouldn’t haul our horses anywhere, or we would hire Brookledge to take us to a trailhead and to shows.

You do the best with what you’ve got.

Does a 15k custom saddle probably fit the horse better than the one purchased used for 1.2k? Probably. But not everyone can afford the former, and as long as some care is taken with the latter it’s more than likely doable.

Bolding mine.

I think this is the nexus of the difference in our view points. The truck absolutely changes that risk.

If someone’s rig is pushing the limits of physics during normal travel - tow weight/ tongue weight/ GVWR/ axle rating/ wheelbase etc., and no big adverse situations ever happen, then they’ve got lots of happy anecdotes of the suitability of their rig for their purposes. When things get hairy, it’s important to have a margin of error, as it can make all the difference between a close call and a catastrophe. Horses are an unstable live load with a high centre of gravity, and - let’s be honest - most of us are amateur drivers with amateur drivers’ skill sets. Having a margin of error is important - how big that margin is is a matter of judgment.

I absolutely agree with you that you do the best with what you’ve got. But I also think it’s important to acknowledge that there are basic physics to the equation, and you figure out what they are and then make a judgment call.

[endlessclimb]

Don’t forget that the trailer has brakes. Some controllers are TDs, others are proportional.

Regardless, you set them for the conditions, of which included is the rig you’re pulling with. For a small rig, you set them to stop the truck.

Yes, things can happen. But they can happen with any rig, particularly a poorly maintained one. Anyone whose brakes have “gone out” that would be my first question - when’s the last time you proactively rewired your plug? Packed your bearings? Done a full brake replacement (drums are not as straight forward as disc, IMO)? Put dielectric grease on the male end on the truck? Has your trailer sat all winter? Did you check the wiring for dry rot and mouse damage (would involve opening the loom on most trailers)? etc etc.

I’d guess that at least 90% of people have not done the maintenance needed to truly call a brake failure a “freak accident”. Any outrageous sway during an emergency maneuver is normally brakes not set properly for the conditions, or an over reaction on the driver’s part - the driver forgets they have a trailer and swerves like they’re just a truck… sometimes the correct answer is to take the impact, and then pull over. The only way I can see something being a truly freak accident is due to a tire blowout from hitting unavoidable road debris, honestly.

[SecondInCommand]

Yes, but nobody here is arguing in favour of poorly maintained rigs. Proper maintenance is table stakes, not some sort of bonus that classes up an under-powered rig into one that surpasses the laws of physics when things get squirrely.

It’s an excellent point - many people with rigs could likely stand to do more rigorous maintenance, and you raising awareness of that point is helpful. It’s just not something that’s going to offset an underpowered rig.

[endlessclimb]

I agree. Though if all hell breaks loose, it’s “Jesus take the wheel” time, no matter what rig you’re in.

[SBrentnall]

I wonder if the emissions stuff that has to be added to US models lowers the tow capacity? I know here in California, the same model has pretty different specs in terms of tow rating, mpg, etc than the same model in the UK.

[clanter]

@endlessclimb

I’d guess that at least 90% of people have not done the maintenance needed to truly call a brake failure a “freak accident”

nothing to do with the topic but on our F350 diesel we had just had a Complete brake job done, the next trip out hauling a horse … brake failure. The vacuum pump, which is very easy to replace and cost under $50 was not replaced by the shop doing a Complete Brake Job. Diesel engines have to a have a vacuum pump for the power brake booster to work.

Was able to stop the truck but the stopping distance was many, many times the normal distance.

Spoke to the shop afterwards, they changed their Complete Brake Job for diesels to include replacement of the vacuum pump

[Gardenhorse]

In every aspect of horse ownership, we have to make our own decisions about what responsible horsemanship looks like, and trailering is no different.

[punchy]

Just another wee bitty person out there who is hauling one horse in a light weight 2 horse trailer with a smaller hauling vehicle (a midsize pickup). I’m well within towing capacity of the truck, including the tongue weight. I take 15 minute drives on back roads about once every week or two and I rarely hit 40 mph. Last time I sent my horse to the vet clinic (30 minutes on the turnpike over long high creepy/scary bridges) I paid a hauler to do it. (I would have felt comfortable driving the back way but it’s a pain and I was happy to pay someone else).

[Bebe_Falcon1]

@Caol_Ila

I looked up the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV 2.4 petrol – because OH owns one and it is sold in both the States and Europe – and we can happily tow up to 3500lbs (really 1600kgs). However, if we lived in the States, our Outlander would only be allowed to tow 1500lbs.

It’s mad, isn’t it?! I’d have loved an Outlander PHEV. But a 1500lb capacity here in North America?! Come on. That’s not going to tow anything fun!

(We got the V6 instead, which leaves us with a 1000lb “buffer” between what we’re towing and the vehicle’s tow capacity.)

[soloudinhere]

It’s clear to me (as a former Bockmann, and about to be current Equitrek, owner) that most people responding to these threads have never towed a European trailer nor have any idea how they work.

I actually traded out of my last bockmann because I got a bigger truck and the truck was too big for the trailer. It was wider than the trailer by a substantial amount and the trailer would bounce around behind the truck. I traded up to a big 2+1 and I regretted it almost immediately. The truck was a pain to drive by itself, didn’t fit anywhere and I had to think all the time about where I was going and would I be able to park the truck. If I could have gone back to my suburban and portax K, I would have done so in a second, but I let everyone scare me that I needed the giant truck and huge gooseneck to be safe.

Now I’m back down to a Tacoma and my equitrek arrives in June. I actually wanted a Stephex van but they are very hard to come by now and they don’t have lease options here in the states, so it was a better value to get a low-depreciation vehicle like the Tacoma and the euro trailer.

As an aside, I find the European side-load trailer layout to be infinitely more friendly and safer than our stupid forward facing straight load back-off-the-ramp style here.

[Shagyas_Rock]

From what I’ve read here it seems Endlessclimb has been casting the dice and taking this risk for
years and thus far has been lucky. They argue that “accidents can happen with big rigs too.” That is true
but I would argue that it is the LIKELYHOOD of an accident that is the key point here.
An accident is far more likely to happen trying to two with a lighter viehicle not specifically manufactured for this purpose. I’d say Endlessclimb has been lucky. And they seem willing to
continue taking this risk. The horses they haul don’t have that choice. Its only a matter of time
before luck runs out.

[DMK]

honestly, I pulled a trail et with my expedition for years with plenty of long hauls. I pulled that same trailer with an F150 and a crew cab F350, all without sway bars and truthfully the sway wasn’t significantly different even given the considerable variation in wheelbase. I was less thrilled about pulling the sundowner sunlite with the expedition, but that thing was a beast compared to the trail et. That only got pulled a few dozen times and it could do the job, but I found it a lot more tiring. Since the sundowner was just a temporary trailer before I moved on to a GN, I moved on to my next vehicle, an F250, which was a lot easier on me. Plans changed and instead of a GN, now I have an even bigger, wider (ergo heavier) BP so the 250 is required.

That said, while I think an SUV can handle a small BP provided you drive like you have much less room for error (because that’s exactly what a bigger vehicle gives you), I have a different opinion about towing with unibody vehicles. Sorry, they are designed with comfort in mind, not the rigors of a couple tons on the back end. But if you are doing the equivalent of Grandma’s monthly drive that probably isn’t going to catch up with you in the usual lifespan of car ownership. If you plan to haul often or you’d like your tow vehicle to be with you for 200+k miles, it’s a decision you should carefully evaluate. I’ve done 25k towing miles in 27 months, that’s just not feasible for me even if I had the trailer suitable to that type of vehicle.

[endlessclimb]

You must not read because I now have a big Cummins.

But to be frank, in 126,000 miles on the smaller rig, thousands and thousands of miles towing, I never once had a close call.

I also, in 20 years of driving, have never been in an accident.

Maybe it’s luck, sure. Or maybe it’s because I’m hyper aware of what the morons are doing around me and preemptively get out of the way. It’s also that I do my own maintenance on everything. I can tell when somethings not right. I know what it’s supposed to feel like, sound like.

The trailer, too, has brakes. The only way you can really get in trouble with a smaller rig is with severe sway. Yeah a blowout, but like I said - bigger rigs have big problems when that happens, too. My Cummins is 6000lb dry - a front tire blows and I’m in deep doo doo, much more than in my lighter SUV.

[sweetsalute]

Ok I’m replying with some actual numbers etc to put things into perspective. This is with the caveat that as I said earlier, I get the impression American trailers are on average, much larger and heavier than what we see here in Australia. Of course, the numbers are still the numbers!

My tow vehicle is a Ford Ranger. I believe they sell them in the US as well, here, they are one of the most popular tow vehicles and the largest dual cab truck in it’s class that is sold here. It has a curb weight of 4400lbs, and a towing capacity of 7700lbs. My trailer, a fairly common style and size here, weighs 1890lbs unloaded. Plenty of capacity for two horses and to be well within safe limits. The trailer has electric brakes, and a control module in the cab.

I have previously towed the same configuration (albeit only one horse) with a Subaru Forester that also never ever had the slightest of issues, or close calls. Again, the numbers all worked out and were well within the vehicle’s capacity.

I’m guessing most of ya’ll would consider my Ranger to be a very small tow vehicle, as a quick google tells me an F250 has a curb weight of nearly 8000lbs! And yet, everyone tows with them here whether it be caravans, horse trailers, car trailers etc etc.