Trainer/Barn Manager question...

[WhatGatsby]

So, I’m currently the manager and trainer of a small hunter/jumper barn (in Virginia). I just have a question about how facility owners pay their managers and trainers.

I currently get $10/hr and a third of all lessons and rides I do. Is this fair? I just feel like I’m working my tail off (to be expected, I know what I signed up for) and not quite getting compensated for it.

So, if we go to a show (the owner does not go) I only end up with a third of the trainers fee. If I ride a horse, he walks away with $20 while I get $10 and am not allowed to count my “hourly rate” in with the ride time, if that makes sense.

Trying to see if I should keep my nose to the ground or speak up about it.

Let’s be nice about this please!

[Ghazzu]

I’d see about negotiating a separate fee scale for shows–if you’re not utilizing owner’s horses or facility, he shouldn’t be making the bulk of the income from that particular activity, IMHO.

[merrygoround]

I would also negotiate a different set of fees for lessons and training. I realize it is the BO facility, but unless you have a totally captive audience and the horses you train are only those from that facility, you need to get more for the horses you are training, and any outside clients you work with.

[GypsyQ]

The at-home fees seem pretty standard. But for shows, I would look at having the clients pay you directly for coaching.

[MIKES_MCS]

Well , fair or not , this is what the job pays , keep in mind that show income and ride income doesn’t just go in the owner pocket , it helps to cover ALL overhead costs associated with barn ownership. Insurance , taxes, Grooms, feed, utilities , maintainance, bedding… ect… Ask yourself would you be training without the use of this barn, it’s facilities and it’s clients? You have non of the expenses associated with owning a barn so fair is not applicable to this situation. If you feel you are not being paid your worth then perhaps a raise is in order or perhaps you might consider if you would make more at the shows if you were paid by the hour rather then a day fee per rider. . or instead become an independent contractor for the clients in the barn… but don’t be surprised if you then have to pay a ring fee for lessons or if the BO finds another trainer they can make money off of . .

[FindersKeepers]

The pay for your work done at the farm may be reasonable, depending on your full compensation package. Are you provided with an apartment or house on the property? Does the property owner pay utilities for that living space, or do you?

That all being said, I think the lesson/training ride split is a bit extreme. Fair perhaps for horses owned by the farm, but if they are boarders, the split should go the other way (2/3 to you, 1/3 to the BO) The show schedule should definitely be different, especially if the BO is not involved at all. If you are solo going to shows to be the manager/trainer of the horses for the facility, you should get 100% of that, in my opinion. If he wants a cut, he should show up and pick up a pitchfork.

Ultimately, he is offering a certain amount, and you signed on. I’d proceed with caution as far as negotiating a different rate. I’d choose your battles and determine where you’d make more… is it at shows, or at home. Which would be more advantageous for you to adjust? Also be aware that just sitting down to have that conversation may be grounds for him to tell you to get lost. If you’re unhappy with the pay arrangement, I’d start quietly investigating other work opportunities.

[WhatGatsby]

I do not live on the property, nor receive benefits from him.

As we are a growing facility, I fear that if I don’t renegotiate the terms now then I’ll lose my opportunity to have a say. The pay is really the only “battle” I’m having right now.

If he gives me the boot my clients will most likely follow, as I’ve mentioned to some of them that there maybe a partnership opportunity with another trainer in the area that they like. I’m not willing to jump ship over something like this though…as the showing opportunities increase I just want to make sure that I’m making the most bang for my buck there as that’s what my clients want to do. It certainly is hard to justify driving hours away for 1/3 of the coaching fee for one or two clients.

Thanks for all your input guys!

[BOGCE]

BUMP UP!

I’m in a similar situation but on the BO perspective.

I hired my BM initially as a trainer but he soon became the Barn Manager and Barn Trainer. We worked out his base compensation for the Barn Manager duties and worked out a split for lessons however we never got to the “other”. He sometimes mentions that he is well deserving of his salary because he puts in so many hours at the barn (on average 54 hour weeks at the barn) - but I would say 50% of his time is devoted to giving lessons…which revenue is split 1/3 barn 1/3 trainer 1/3 cost of horses - but is not his main job which is being the BM and the base of his salary. Also majority of lessons are given on barn horses and which we pay all costs for.

There are multiple situations that need to be settled out and hoping I could get some input:

1. Horse Shows

If he is our in house trainer and takes our clients to a show does he get 100% of the trainer fee? Consider that he is also the Barn Manager at the barn. Of course all his duties would be still taken care of by him but the value of his presence at the barn that we pay him for is gone. (Our barn manager doesn’t prepare feed / muck stalls / etc. but manages our grooms) Lessons would still go on but we would use a trainer that we have a higher split % of the lesson revenue so we also lose that difference. What would be a reasonable split of the fees be?

2. Sale commissions

When a trainer finds a horse for a client they get a “finders fee”. Would it be reasonable for the barn to receive a portion of that if the trainer is the barns in house trainer? I understand that they have to search for the horse and visit the horse with the client. But most of that work is on our clock and for our client - which he brings up as “putting so many hours at the barn”. Opinions?

-Maria

[findeight]

This is a zombie thread but good discussion. Assuming the trainer here is a good one, honest and ethical

For BOGCE, as your place has grown, it’s possible it’s grown out of combining the BM and trainer positions. Trainers make more money, the temptation would be great to spend most of ones time on that side of the job description…and who is at at home managing when trainer is on the road at shows?

From my prospective as a long time boarder in show barns, it’s too much work for one person to be an effective BM and schedule, teach, train and haul clients to shows. If your barn is successful and growing, maybe it’s time to at least designate a lead groom and give them additional responsibility if not hire a BM.

If the guy is decent and honest putting in 54 hours a week, plus going to shows , I wouldn’t rock that boat too hard, he’s obviously satisfying clients and attracting new ones. Trainers do come with a certain amount of ego but if you got a good one, work with it.

A few barns do want a cut of any commissions earned but I don’t think that’s fair, he is bringing in more boarders and generating more fees to split with you and creating happy clients that attract other new clients. He won’t stay, will go to a barn that gives him a better deal…taking clients with him and you’ll have to rebuild the business. No opinion on a split of show fees…but he’s doing the work and can’t recall being in a barn that took a cut of on the road training services. I’d say that’s negotiable but taking a bigger split on at home services and use of school horses might make more sense

If you want to finish negotiating the compensation package, do so ASAP. That’s fair for both sides. But 54 hours a week plus shows wearing two hats is a lot to ask of one person and ultimately it’s the clients that suffer any omissions due to one person responsible for too many things in two places at once on show days. Not so much money, he can’t do both well. Something’s got to give.

[TheJenners]

Not so much related to BOGCE’s post but the OP’s, but when I see barn “managers” making $10/hr, I just shake my head. Not too many other places where you risk life and limb, work in all weather, with the title and responsibility of “manager,” and work for barely above minimum wage.

[ladyj79]

@TheJenners

Not so much related to BOGCE’s post but the OP’s, but when I see barn “managers” making $10/hr, I just shake my head. Not too many other places where you risk life and limb, work in all weather, with the title and responsibility of “manager,” and work for barely above minimum wage.

And hilariously, most of the jobs are salaried and you don’t even make that 10 bucks.

[Dutchmare433]

You can’t post the same question on multiple threads and expect to get different answers. It sounds like what you really want is for this poor guy to work nearly 70 hours a week so he can adhere to your requirement that a barn manager who is overseeing grooms etc (i.e. not feeding/mucking) needs to be there for exactly 40 hours, plus work almost 30 hours a week doing training and lessons. Training and lessons which you happen to get a 2/3 cut of. Or you want him to continue what he’s doing, but get permission from here to cut his salary.

It sounds like you need a full time barn manager and a full time trainer, which, unfortunately, will cost more, not less.